Posted on: June 25, 2018

To thrive in the wholesaling world, it is important to constantly be on the lookout for ways you can make bigger and better deals. Today’s guest never rested on his laurels and was rewarded accordingly.

Josh Stevens has been a tribe member for 2 years now. Recently, he became a part of a case study ran by rockstar rhino Todd Toback called Bigger Deals. Participants were taught how they can make more money without having to do additional deals.

Prior to joining the case study, Josh earned an average of $9, 000 to $10, 000 per deal. However, his recent deal has been nothing less than spectacular—he netted a little under $63, 000 in profits! That’s 6 times more than his usual average.

If you want to find out how Josh did it and how you can duplicate his success, don’t miss this episode. As an added bonus, Tom also dished out invaluable wholesaling tips and advice so make sure you have a pen and paper handy!

The Deal:

  • Prospect came from a direct mail Josh sent out. However, since he was able to talk to the seller a year prior, she became more of a database lead.
  • Recently, seller kept calling and expressed intention to sell.
  • Josh didn’t waste any time, scheduled an appointment, left the house with the contract in hand, and walked away $63, 000 richer!


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Episode Transcription

Tom Krol: Woo wee. Hey everybody, this is Tom Krol, America’s number one wholesaling coach. And I have got a very special guest with me today. It’s my good buddy, Josh Stevens. He has been a tribe member now for a while, right, Josh? How long have you been in the tribe?

Josh Stevens: Over two years.

Tom Krol: Two years. That’s, oh man, that’s awesome. So you’ve really seen a lot then. That’s awesome. Good, good, good. So Josh has been in the tribe for about two years and he started off and he had some great early success and he just really did a deal that was really spectacular. He made over or just on the nose, 60 K I think it was. Was it 60 K?

Josh Stevens: It was a under 63.

Tom Krol: Just under 63. Okay. So awesome. A lot amount of money. That’s a big amount of money. That’s more money than most American couples make an entire year. So what he did was, he was part of a case study and I want to tell you guys about it where you can make more money but not have to do any more deals. And it’s something that we called bigger deals. And I’m going to tell you guys about what that is. It’s run by my older brother, my original mentor, Todd Toback. He has been just a lighthouse in this industry for me personally and for the entire tribe and all the rhinos. He runs Bigger Deals and he runs Rhino Roundtable. So he’s a rock star. And right now if you go to, I think it’s actually closed, the case study’s closed right now, but he is going to reopen it.
So if you’re interested going sign up and find out when it’s going to reopen. But Josh is going to tell us a little bit more about what it was and how his deal size got so big. Really, that’s an incredible number. So we’re going to pick his brain and you know this is the no fluff, no BS zone. So we’re going to get right to the meat and potatoes. Nobody cares about Tom and nobody cares about Josh. You guys want to have the same results and that’s what we’re going to get to.
So we are here to be your servants. And to provide you with some really good insight. If you don’t know what wholesaling is, wholesaling is very simply the art of consistently finding discounted properties in your neighborhood and making a fortune doing that. Whether you are a landlord or rehabber, whether you purchase a property and put it back on MLS or you assign the contract.
Either way, wholesaling is going to be the art of consistently finding discounted properties. So that’s what we’re going to be talking about here today. And we’re going to be picking Josh Stevens brains. So I’m looking forward to it.
So Josh, you are in Texas. Let’s get right to the meat and potatoes, brother, because you’ve already been on the podcast before, so everyone’s already bored with your personal story. So let’s get right to the good stuff. I want to go right into the importance of- So first of all, what is your average deal size? So we kind of have a starting point for what you’re doing right now.

Josh Stevens: Okay. So before we did this recent large deal, really large deal, I think our average was around just under 10,000.

Tom Krol: Okay? So let’s just call it 9K.

Josh Stevens: Yeah, sure.

Tom Krol: Okay.

Josh Stevens: And that was probably over about 25 deals.

Tom Krol: Okay. So you had done about 25 so I’m going to write this down. So you’ve done about 25 deals and the average assignment fee or the average profit was about $9,000.

Josh Stevens: Correct.

Tom Krol: Okay. So that’s still really, really good. That’s really excellent. So that’s amazing. And bigger deals. Kind of what I’d like you to do is just kind of tell us a little bit of a story. What I’d like to know, Josh, is number one, why did you decide to do the case study with Todd? Tell us a little bit about it. And I did not run the case study. I wasn’t one of the coaches. So I’m curious, too. Tell us a little bit more about the format. Obviously it was eight weeks because it’s an eight week case study. So I imagine it was eight weeks. But tell us a little bit more about how did it go, what got you interested in it, why you decided to do it, what did all of that look like?

Josh Stevens: Sure. So when I first started with you, Tom, I know the focus of wholesaling the main course is to get you up and running, doing wholesale and deals. And after I had been in the course for a little while, there was another course offered and it was the no limit selling system and that was one that Todd did. And I did that and it was really helpful. Really, it focused more on less drill down on a specific part of it. How do we really make this work? Well with meeting with the motivated sellers and locking up deals and just a real focused intense course there. And I took that and it was great. And so whenever I saw the Bigger Deals case study opportunity there, I thought, “This is probably going to be good just like the other was.” And so I looked into it and it was again, it was like, let’s take it from where you are. You’re operating, you’re doing wholesale deals, but let’s make this really explode. And so I was interested in and jumped on board and started learning a lot.

Tom Krol: Right. Well, you know, it’s funny what, so we just recently guys, for all our listeners, we had a convention. We had a meeting, a Wholesaling Inc summit in Orlando. It just has passed. What? I don’t, I think it was, what was that was in January. Oh, so maybe it was, it passed about four months ago. But we had this and Todd had gotten up on stage and Todd’s just a wonderful coach. I mean, for me personally, having him as an older brother has been a game changer. And after people get to know him, they’re like, “Oh, now I know where you get all your stuff from. It’s not from you. It’s from Todd,” which is true. I’d readily admit that. But he had spoken on stage and we had a lot of amazing speakers on stage. But Todd, I mean after the speech was over, he had a crowd of people and Darren Bentley came up to me and he said, “Tom, all these people are asking for access to how to make more revenue without having to do more deals.”
And that’s actually, we decided right at that moment we said, “Let’s do an eight week case study.” And then we put it up and people signed up. And that was kind of the exception for us.
But yeah, I think that was the biggest takeaway is that, hey more revenue without having to increase number of deals, which means without having to increase the marketing, which was insane. So take us through Bigger Deals. How did it go? What did it look like? Were you participating on the phone calls or listening to recordings or how did that work?

Josh Stevens: Sure. So eight weeks, like you described there were some training videos each week and then we had a weekly call. We’d go over the material that was covered in the videos that week. And then we would do question and answer and some role play. Which role play is really, really beneficial because it kind of exposes weaknesses or gaps in your skills or your technique.

Tom Krol: Right.

Josh Stevens: [crosstalk 00:07:50] So it goes through that and initially started with probably what I would consider the biggest key in wholesaling. Well, and certainly not an expert, but I’ve done it the wrong way and that is having a good solid active buyers list that is constantly being refreshed with new buyers and updated and, and that was the first of the course. And then we moved through meeting with sellers and really drilling down on some things that make deals that might not have been there if it was a lay, not necessarily lay down deals but make it to where we can make something happen with those without spending more money on marketing.

Tom Krol: Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean so what is a specific- Obviously so the more cash buyers the better. That makes a lot of sense. What is a key takeaway or a negotiation tactic that you took away where you were, “Man, this I implemented,” or I guess what I really want to know is how the heck did you, more than six times your profit margin, what was the magic bullet or how did that even happen? I mean, $60,000 Josh, is a, for a lot of people who are listening right now, who don’t have a lot of experience, maybe you’re just getting started, you know, I know you’ve done 25 deals now, but that’s a real life changing amount of money. So take me through what was the one pinnacle, one, two or three things that really helped you increase so dramatically your deal size?

Josh Stevens: Okay. Well first of all this wasn’t a normal deal on the buyer end a little unusual on the buyer end. The seller side, very typical, distress situation. Somebody who needed to move who couldn’t afford to do it necessarily the they would have liked to. Got a new place, fixed it up and sold over the realtor for highest price. They couldn’t afford to do that, weren’t in position to do that. And there was a lot of family drama going on. I’ll just leave it at that.

Tom Krol: Sure.

Josh Stevens: And so a purchase price, it wasn’t crazy low like you would think of for a really large deal. But on the buyer side I had been a part of the whole idea there. Building your buyers list and and working at that all the time. I had gotten in contact with this buyer through calling Craigslist ads and this was a property management company.

Tom Krol: Okay. So let me just slow down. So the first thing is there was a distressed seller. How did you find the deal? Was a direct mail or cold calling or PPC or what?

Josh Stevens: Okay. This is good. So it was direct mail and the lady had called me February a year ago.

Tom Krol: Okay. Wow. [crosstalk 00:10:45] Okay.

Josh Stevens: So the thing is a database lead. Now, she hadn’t reached out to us and we hadn’t contacted her other than just periodically following up. But it wasn’t like we had been talking for a year.

Tom Krol: Okay.

Josh Stevens: So I started calling really over and over and over calling. And my VA handles the initial contact. And so I kept seeing these alerts and I was, “We’ve got to get in contact with this lady. If you haven’t yet, you got to call her.” So anyway, I called the lady and she said, “Yes, I’m definitely interested in selling and I need to sell quickly.” And so I’m booked an appointment with her immediately. I was out in the field when I called her and I went ahead and went over to her house that day.

Tom Krol: Right? So let me just say this. So did you leave that house with a contract?

Josh Stevens: I did.

Tom Krol: Okay. So three things guys, for if you’re new or even if you’re not new, that Josh did, number one database followup, right? The money is in the what? What? Joshua. You tell us.

Josh Stevens: Database.

Tom Krol: That’s it. The database, you guys. When you are a wholesaler and you’re just starting out, you’re going to have that big of marketing, whatever your marketing is, whether it’s direct mail, PPC, cold calling, bandit signs, door knocking, driving for dollars, whatever. But what you’re going to start to realize is the majority of your deals will start to come through your database. So keeping track of that is key.
Number two, you notice that Josh said he had a virtual assistant who is monitoring the voicemail inbox. Is that right, Josh? They’re monitoring the inbox?

Josh Stevens: Yes.

Tom Krol: So you guys, any of that granular routine work that needs to be done on a daily basis, the detailed work, visionaries, entrepreneurs, creative people who are at 50,000 feet, we’re not usually good at that. So outsource it.
And number three is, did you see how when he knew it was a good deal, he ran out to the property that day and he didn’t leave until he had it under contract? Absolutely critical. Not, “I’m going to evaluate a hundred different things and let me think about it.” He got it under contract and he got it out under that day. It’s critical, guys. It is absolutely critical.
I’ve personally already have closed quite a number, a big number of deals this month already. Sense of urgency, progress, not perfection, speed of implementation, all these things that, this is what- There’s nothing special about me. There’s nothing special about Josh. We’re just following a program and a script that works. So awesome.
All right, so brother, so you get it under contract.

Josh Stevens: So I got it under contract. I scheduled before I left. I went ahead and scheduled the walkthrough for my buyers to come walk through…

Tom Krol: Okay.

Josh Stevens: … look at the property. And then had several offers come in. And the one that got it, he was interested in it because it was adjacent to one of his properties, a larger parcel. So he wanted it bad. I’d never would have had him in my database for a buyer if I hadn’t gone looking for buyers and gone after it like that.

Tom Krol: Right, I got it. Okay, so you purchased the property and then you resold it to him, I imagine.

Josh Stevens: I did. Yes.

Tom Krol: Okay. And so you already knew before purchase that you were going to be able to sell to this guy for this 63,000 or so, 62,000 and some dollar amount. That’s incredible. So I just want to be clear about this. How did you find a real estate investor to buy? When you said you cold called Craigslist, first of all, what is a script that you used to do that for looking for buyers? And what part of Craigslist did you cold call? Was a for rent, for sale? Was it landlords? Who were you calling on Craigslist? So if somebody is listening and they want to copy what you did to build their real estate investor list, how would they do that?

Josh Stevens: So, and this is coming straight from you, Tom. I was calling for rent ads on Craigslist. This one was a property management company. And so I called and I said, “Hi, I’m just getting…” This is early on. “I’m just getting started in real estate investing. Are you looking for additional properties? Are your clients looking for properties to purchase and to add to their portfolio?” Sure. They said whatever they said. And I said, “Well, I locate discounted properties for cash buyers. When I come across something can, I’ll let you know about it?” And “Sure, yeah, let me know, send us an email, call us,” whatever. And that was it. So then I had that contact in there and just rinse and repeat.

Tom Krol: I love it. So easy peasy lemon squeezy. And that’s why, you guys, don’t read the ads on Craigslist. Just call everybody because even a property manager might be an awesome buyer or know a buyer. So property managers are definitely key. Property managers, if you know enough of them, we’ll give you motivated sellers and cash buyers. So it’s a double blessing. So that’s awesome, man. So what is the game plan now for the Stevens family? What are you guys doing with $60,000. I want to know because that’s awesome.

Josh Stevens: Yeah. The biggest thing that I, when I was talking to my wife about this, when we knew it was getting close to close- Of course you don’t ever want to just sit there and count on one deal.

Tom Krol: You could say that again.

Josh Stevens: We were kind of excited about it and I told her what I wanted to do is be able to focus my attention for a short period of time on getting some acquisition help, getting acquisition specialists up and running. This was the first really big slug that we could coast for, you know, a few weeks in order to get that going. Not totally let revenue go out the window or anything, but be able to breathe. And spend a little time focusing on hiring and training acquisition. So that’s what I’m doing right now. I know a couple of days from now I’m going to be starting with a guy that we’re hiring.

Tom Krol: Okay. Well, first of all, I’m ringing this victory bell for you. That is awesome, brother. I mean, $62,000. That’s an insane amount really. So congratulations. But awesome.
Can I give you a little bit of coaching?

Josh Stevens: Give it to me, brother. I need it.

Tom Krol: So if anything goes too personal, you just tell me and we’ll shut the recorder off. But I want to just, so here’s the question I have. Awesome job. But let me get- so when you said,”It gives us a little time to coast,” is very scary for me. Right?

Josh Stevens: I know.

Tom Krol: Okay.

Josh Stevens: Kind of the [inaudible 00:17:15] terminology there.

Tom Krol: No, no, it’s too late. We can’t go back. It was already said. “I can play back the recording,” as Judge Judy says, right? So here’s what I would say is that just know right now when you have a big deal, that’s the time to punch the gas, not to pump the brake, right? So you want to- you’ve come this far, you want to come a little bit further. How many deals have you done so far? So right now we are in April, right? So it’s January, February, March, mid-April. How many deals have you done so far this year?

Josh Stevens: I think, eight.

Tom Krol: Okay. So here’s the deal.

Josh Stevens: I don’t remember.

Tom Krol: Yeah. So here’s what I would do, right? What I would do is I would find an acquisition manager. That’s fine if that’s the route you want to go. But let me make a suggestion. Right now- so at eight deals, you are at January, February, March, April. So you’re basically at two deals a month. That’s eight closed deals?

Josh Stevens: Right? That was eight through March, yeah.

Tom Krol: Okay. So April isn’t counted yet.

Josh Stevens: No.

Tom Krol: Okay. So you’re right there. But I would just punch the gas a little bit more and really focus on more deals. How is your pipeline looking right now? What do you have lined up? How much money are you going to make in the next 30 days?

Josh Stevens: Probably in the next 30 days.

Tom Krol: Yeah.

Josh Stevens: Oh, 10K, I guess.

Tom Krol: Okay. That’s one deal?

Josh Stevens: No, it’s two.

Tom Krol: Yeah, I mean, here’s what I would suggest. I think you’re right there, but I would, when you get an acquisition manager sometimes things are going to slow down a little bit and the problem is your margins are good, but your volume is lower than it should be, right? So I would focus right now on increasing volume. I would try to consistently be doing three to four deals every month.
Let me also say this. When you prepare for your acquisition manager, what I would suggest is that you really double up on your marketing, right? So let’s just say just whatever. Let’s just say that you’re spending, like you’re sending out, you know, a thousand postcards a week, whatever, or 2,500 postcards a week. What I would do is I would double that up, right? I would try to get more appointments, more belly-to-belly appointments with sellers, get more properties under contract, have a nice fat pipeline. Then bring the acquisition manager in.
How are you planning on paying your acquisition manager, commission or salary or what?

Josh Stevens: He’s commission.

Tom Krol: Yeah. So I would make sure that you speak to your attorney about how to put them onto the LLC. So they’re working with you or whatever the best strategy is there. Number two is if there were, let’s just say you’re going to pay them 20%, I would pay them 10% and I would for six to eight weeks, I would go out on every single appointment with them. So that’s why you want to double up your marketing so you have more appointments, right? So right now, if you’re only getting two or so deals a month you’re not going to have enough appointments to actually be testing them. So you want to take the lead position and they should be quiet for the first three, four weeks.
And then after they’re comfortable, you then let them take the lead position and you’re quiet. Don’t correct them in front of the seller. And then you get in the car and you say, “Here’s what you did right. Here’s what you could have did better, and here’s what you forgot,” right? And you do that for six, seven, eight weeks, and then you just let them go on their own. You raise their commission back up to 20% or whatever it is, and then they’re at 100% of their commission. And you got to make sure that you’re prepared for that. Number one, with number of deals and number two, by increasing your marketing before you start that.
Also, I would definitely recommend that your acquisition manager has a college degree. That’s very important because colleges are literally institutions that are made to produce employees. That is what their purpose is, right? The purpose of a university or a college is to produce an employee, right? So you’re the visionary entrepreneur. You want an employee. I would recommend that they have a college degree. That’s very important. That’s what I would suggest.
So just make sure that you don’t do it prematurely because when you hire an acquisition manager, it’s always normal because they’re going to make some mistakes. Your revenue may drop a little bit. But if it drops drastically, you might be doing it prematurely. Meaning, you’re taking your eye off the ball. Always remember revenue in first position. So the problem is is that you don’t want to put your acquisition manager in first position. It should be revenue in first position, so all the oars are rowing in the same direction. Just be careful.
Also when you say, “We made 60 we could coast for a while.” I would do something with that. I mean, I would definitely recommend number one that you tie down that 60th. I know you you’re going to do that. I don’t even have to say it to you. But tie down the 60. The other thing too is- Are you following the profit first model?

Josh Stevens: Yes.

Tom Krol: You are. Okay. So just make sure you’re- If anybody who’s listening, if you don’t know profit first, it’s the Mike Michalowicz has a book called “Profit First.” It’s a great book for entrepreneurs. I would recommend that you do that and then I would have a game plan. Do you have a property in your pipeline right now that you can use that $60,000 to buy as a long-term rental?

Josh Stevens: No, I don’t. I don’t.

Tom Krol: So I would look at that. Try to find a rental. Because in your area, you could probably buy a house for 50 or 60, right?

Josh Stevens: Sure.

Tom Krol: Yeah. So just get rid of most of that cash. And if you feel comfortable, you were. “And now we can breathe.” It’s, “No. Stay in that gasping for air mode.” You know what I mean? Stay hungry. $60,000 can- I have seen that happen. It could actually throw you off course because it’s such a large amount of money in such a short amount of time. So I would definitely stay in that hunger mode. And ultimately, a lot of people, they go into real estate to exit the rat race, but they inadvertently create a job, right? If your ultimate game plan is to produce, let’s just say $17,000 a month through passive income, well, let’s get that on the whiteboard, right?
Let’s paint a picture of where we’re going and let’s buy a house that can get us to that monthly income, right? Because ultimately you don’t want to be doing deals when you’re 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 right? Eventually you want to just have passive income from either multi-family or single family or a dividend stock, but some sort of an asset that’s paying you every month.
So what I would do is I would want to- I know Julia and I, it’s better if we just take that cash and we buy a rental that performs, especially if it’s free and clear. That’s even better. But I would identify that number. When I talk to you guys, I should be able to say, “What is your freedom number?” And if I have both of you in a separate room, you should both say the exact same number and what it looks like. And I should be able to close my eyes and I should be able to really have a clear picture of where you’re both going. This way, all of your decisions and actions are lined up to that. So when you look at the 60,000 you’re really, “Man, 60,000 is not a lot because it only took us to 3% of our goal.” You know what I mean? That’s, I mean, just [crosstalk 00:24:08] take that with a grain of salt. But-

Josh Stevens: Thank you.

Tom Krol: Of course, brother. That’s what I’m here for. So, but yeah, that’s awesome man. But hey, either way, I hope you get to go out to dinner with that at least. I mean, that’s saying, yeah. Well, your city’s quite right- Well, how close are you? What’s your biggest city? I mean, you’re in what, Tyler?

Josh Stevens: Yeah, Tyler is the main city nearby.

Tom Krol: Okay. It might require a Dallas trip. I mean, I’m thinking- But I don’t know. I don’t know what restaurants are by you.
But a good, good. So that’s it. So what about, what is your game plan for marketing going forward? What is your main marketing channel? Is a direct mail still?

Josh Stevens: It is. Yeah, it’s direct mail. And our game plan with that is with the acquisition specialists coming in. What my plan was is to mail progressively more up until he chokes on leads.

Tom Krol: How many postcards are you mailing a week right now?

Josh Stevens: We’ve been averaging, I think, 2200 or so, something like that.

Tom Krol: 2200 a week.

Josh Stevens: Right.

Tom Krol: Okay. You’re paying about what, 38 cents a card, something like that?

Josh Stevens: Yes.

Tom Krol: Okay. I’m going to give you a resource for him. We have a new resource in the tribe. I’m going to- Remind me to give you the new mail house that’s going to be cheaper than that. And then also have you checked the course for the updated lists?

Josh Stevens: I went back in there and saw a new one here not too long ago.

Tom Krol: Okay. There was a new one that was added just last week, so just check that out. Okay?

Josh Stevens: Okay. I’ll find it. Yeah.

Tom Krol: Yeah. Cool.

Josh Stevens: I also want to say, Tom, when I look at that, I think, “What did I do different on this deal?” And there were a few quirks about it, but essentially doing the same thing we’ve done on other deals and God has taken tremendous care of us in anything we’ve done in the past. And so I look at this as just another time where he’s really blessed us and I’m very thankful. I’d certainly want to give him the glory for it.

Tom Krol: Absolutely.

Josh Stevens: [inaudible 00:26:03] that made it $60,000.

Tom Krol: Right? Well, no, I mean I totally agree. I think it’s a question of when it comes from that perspective, I think it’s a question of building your faith with the discipline of tithing and also by knocking on the door, right? So an attitude of progress, not perfection, seeking out, and the knocking on those doors is key. But to me, I attribute the majority of my financial success to tithing. And I know you do too.
If anybody who’s listening right now, Josh is a Christian. I’m a Christian. I could tell you, guys, if you want to open the flood gates check out Malachi. It’s In chapter three. I think it’s verse eight. And that’s really, definitely, definitely tithe 10%.
What I always like to say about tithing is some people think it has something to do with charity or being a gold giver. Tithing is, that’s not your money. It does not belong to you. So if you don’t tithe there’s some pretty strong language in the Bible about that. So I would very, very seriously suggest that you start tithing. And if you have any questions about that, check out the last chapter of the Old Testament.
But yeah, I totally agree. It’s all by the grace of God and it’s a blessing, man. This is the best path, but I love it. So we’re blessed, man. I love it. Good stuff.

Josh Stevens: Sure.

Tom Krol: So congratulations to you and your beautiful family. We still have your Christmas ornament hanging up every Christmas. I’m looking forward to hanging it again this year. So thank you for sending that to us. And, oh, yeah, you know where you gave that to me? That was in San Antonio, Texas. I remember that now. That was Victor Mass’s [inaudible 00:27:40], right? Wasn’t it?

Josh Stevens: Yeah, San Antonio, Rio?

Tom Krol: Where did we go out to dinner that night? That was-

Josh Stevens: We went to the Rainforest Cafe.

Tom Krol: The Rainforest Cade. That’s right. That was a blast. William Rafter was there.

Josh Stevens: Cody.

Tom Krol: Darrin, right?

Josh Stevens: Renee was there.

Tom Krol: Renee Martinez. Oh man, I haven’t heard from him in a while. That’s good. So brother, I love it. Congratulations. You’re actually wait, hold on, hold on. I want to ring. I want to ring the original victory bell for you, but it’s out of reach. Hold on one second. This is the real one. Aw, I love that one. That’s the right one.

Josh Stevens: It’s got a little different tone to it.

Tom Krol: It does. It does. That’s the original one. I’ll never sell that one. Good stuff. Well, congratulations, brother, again.

Josh Stevens: It was good talking to you.

Tom Krol: Always good talking to you. Have a good one. We’ll talk to you soon. All right. Bye.

Josh Stevens: All right. Bye-bye.

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