Mark Evans DM is an all-star in real estate investing. He gave us some advice a few months ago, we implemented it immediately, and it it has catapulted our business to the stratosphere!
In today’s episode, we’re going to dig into that incredible advice and teach you how to grow your Wholesaling business.
Data (Not Drama)
This was the advice that completely changed our business: “Data, not drama.” You may not realize how often people in your life bring you information based on their emotion, and not based on any actual data.
Mark doesn’t care if you’re broke, rich, famous, or what is going on in your life – all he cares about is what activities are being done daily to get results. “The data gives you direction to growth.”
Looking at the Business
Mark has a big team in Palm Beach, FL. They…
- purchase everything in-house because they have the capital to do it, and it allows them to serve the turnkey investor world.
- mostly sell single family houses that cost $30-60k.
- try to sell properties within 21 days of starting the purchasing process.
- get 99% of their deals are found through direct mail.
- try to get at least 60 deals a month, which adds up to ~$40-50M in gross revenue from single family properties.
How to Start Building a Wholesaling BUSINESS
Anyone can learn how to sell real estate. The processes are out there and they’re proven. However, you can’t be really successful at selling real estate unless you build a good business.
In fact, if you’re just starting to do Wholesaling full-time, you’re probably working more than you were before.
It’s time to start building a business that works without you!
- Create a top-down chart of your organization. Who is everyone, what are their roles, etc.
- Reverse-engineer the process and identify what you are spending the most time on that you can delegate, then hire someone to do that. It will save you a ton of time that you can now focus on building the business.
- Periodically review the last few deals that you’ve done so that you can learn about your buyers’ buying criteria. By looking at the data behind successfully closed deals, you’ll learn how to identify and price properties to sell.
- Learn more at MarkEvansDM.com
- Profit First: A Simple System to Transform Any Business from a Cash-Eating Monster to a Money-Making Machine by Mike Michalowicz
- Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman
- The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don’t Work and What to Do About It by Michael E. Gerber
If you are Ready to Explode Your Wholesaling Business, Click here to Book a Free Strategy Session with me right now!
Subscribe to Wholesaling Inc
Tom Krol: Okay guys, I have an amazing guest with me today, a truly amazing guest. I am honored to have Mark Evans on the show. He is a rockstar in the industry, an all-star at real estate investing, and just an amazing guy overall. I had the honor and the privilege to meet this guy for lunch about six months ago, and he had given me some advice that was just incredible. We’re going to be talking about that advice. I implemented into my business immediately, and it has just catapulted our business to the stratosphere, so I can’t believe we have him on our show. It’s a great honor. Mark Evans, are you there?
Mark Evans: I’m here, Tom. Thanks a lot, buddy. How you doing, man?
Tom Krol: Oh man, I’m doing great. It’s awesome to have you on the show. I’ve been looking forward to this episode for so long, and I know we missed each other a few times, and I was just congratulating you on a new baby. I think that’s awesome, Mark #3. That’s great. God bless. Great news.
Mark Evans: Yeah man, thanks. He just turned four months yesterday actually, so it’s been awesome.
Tom Krol: That’s incredible. It goes by fast. I was just mentioning to Mark, I saw him on Facebook or someplace. He had great little smiles, so it’s awesome…so awesome, awesome, awesome! So, I want to get down to the meat and potatoes, and before we do all that, if you could just give everyone a little bit of an introduction. Tell us about who you are, and how you got into this whole business, and what you do, because it’s very interesting what you do. It’s not exactly wholesaling, so our listeners would love to hear more from you. So, give us a little snapshot.
Mark Evans: Yeah, man. So, my name is Mark Evans, DMDN. The DM for my mother means “dream maker”; for the world, it means deal maker, digital nomad. It’s actually, that came about in 2005 once I started traveling around the world for seven years. So, kind of a cool little twist of what I do. I started investing when I was 18 years old. Actually, I went to a seminar, so I called that investing. I invested in myself, spent every dime I had, drove from Columbus to Florida, and was up in the room eating Cheetos and Doritos. I was literally just learning how to take my game to the next level. At that point, I had nothing to lose. I just started figuring it out. I mean, at the end of the day, it’s like I just kept going out there. Back then, this was when we had to go libraries, Tom. So, this was a library day.
Mark Evans: So, I was literally sitting in a little efficiency apartment with, at one point, with no water, no electric, no gas-nothing. It was kind of intense with candles, but I never felt like I didn’t have anything. I had my brain, I had drives. So, I just kept putting my head down and pushing forward. And, finally, deals started happening unexpected, amazingly happening. So, that was awesome. And, I just figured it out. And then, I got to a point in my life where I honestly, Tom, I was just working really hard. I was making a lot of money, and on October 8th, 2005, my grandmother passed away unexpectedly. So, that’s when I was like, “Wow, is this all I’m working for? Just to make money?” And, as you know, there’s a lot of people working just to make money.
Mark Evans: And I started looking at myself and asking myself deeper questions: “Why am I here? What is my objective and goals in life?” And, not just for myself, but for the people I care about the most, my family. And December 31st, ’05, went on a trip for one month, first time I ever traveled like that, which turned into two and a half years with my girlfriend, now wife, Dena. And, we were able to travel the world, and what happened, it forced me to get stronger as a business owner, not a wholesaler. And, I see a lot of wholesalers have glorified jobs, if you will, and I’m not saying that in a negative way, ’cause I used to be that same person, but once I started putting clarity and focus on what I wanted and who I was and how I saw the big picture, I started building a company around this in 2005, and it really just took it to the next level.
Tom Krol: It’s awesome. And, I mean, sometimes guys, when you meet with somebody and you just know. Meeting with Mark and spending some time with him, I drove down to Palm Beach, I live just north of them, and it was just an incredible meeting. I mean, you just know when you meet somebody who really gets it. It’s true. One thing that we’re working on is making sure that our business is a servant to us, and we’re not just going out there creating a job, and I love it. And, before we deep dive some of your deals and, you guys, Mark has a really an amazing story with how he handles his deals. But, I really want to go over something that you told me, because I know it’s going to touch some of the people on this podcast who are listening, some of our listeners, and I wrote this down.
Tom Krol: I remember writing it down when you told it to me, and I had my note pen out and I said, “Huh, this is great.” And you had said, “data, not drama”, and I love this. I love this perspective. This completely changed my life because when you really look at it, you don’t realize how many people bring you information or so-called data really based on emotion, or recency, and not really based on the actual numbers. So, can you just kind of deep dive for that first for a little while and just tell us a little bit more about what you meant by that. And, I think it’s great.
Mark Evans: Yeah, no, like you said, it changes your life and game once you understand what that really means. So, I was used to, when I had an office environment in Columbus, people always came into my office, when I used to go to the office, and say, “Mark, this problem, this problem, this problem.” They always came in, and I was like, “I don’t want the baby pains. I want the baby.” And then I kind of cleaned it up to data, not drama, because one of my mentors said that, and I was like, that kind of makes more sense.
Tom Krol: A little bit cooler, too, to say that.
Mark Evans: Right. So, what that really means is, “I don’t care if you’re broke, I don’t care if you’re rich, I don’t care if you’re…what color you are. I don’t care about any of these things. I don’t care what’s going on in your life. All I care about is, what activities are you doing daily to get results?”
Mark Evans: Data, not drama. The data gives you direction to growth. You know, if you make zero calls and you get zero contracts out, but you come to me and say, “Mark, no one’s selling their deals”, I don’t care about that ’cause that means nothing to me. I’m asking the next question. The only question that matters, “How many offers did you make, and how many people did you talk to?” Because, if you’ve talked to zero, that means, I don’t care who you are, no one’s going to do a deal with you.
Tom Krol: Right.
Mark Evans: So, I’m always looking at core data points that will drive growth in my company, for sure.
Tom Krol: I love it, and we used to make decisions based on that all the time. We would make decisions on, someone would say, “Well, I’m going through the leads, and they’re not really working.” And we would say, “Okay, well then we’re not gonna…if you’re saying they’re not good leads, and we’re just not gonna mail to that lead source anymore, go through the database, and then you look at the data, you’re like, “Wait a second, you made 13 phone calls, and you’re telling me the database is no good?”
Mark Evans: I mean it really is, Tom. Unfortunately, like 99% of people make decisions like this. Again, everyone listening, including us, et cetera, we’re all busy. Even emotionally, physically, mentally busy. That doesn’t mean we’re being productive, right? We all have the same amount of time, 24 hours a day. How does Bill Gates get to where he is? How does Trump or whoever you’re looking at, and you’re like, how in the world are these guys able to generate billions of dollars in revenue? The way they do it is by focusing on data.
Tom Krol: Right. I love it. It’s literally, I can’t tell you enough, so I really want to thank you. That meeting, that lunch that we had, sometimes you just have a meeting and it’s just serendipitously, but it was right what I needed at that moment, and we really implemented it and, man, it has been…we are crazy about analytic style, so it is really incredible.
Mark Evans: I’ll send you my wire information then.
Tom Krol: Absolutely. You got it. I owe you one.
Mark Evans: You do wires now, right? You don’t do checks.
Tom Krol: We do, and we actually have one coming to you, but I want to also ask you before we get into your deals, can you kind of give everybody a snapshot of how you do deals? Cause I will tell you, I come across a lot of people, guys, and Mark Evans is truly, he’s one of those guys who has a business that runs 100% without him, that is a servant to him and his family, which I think is wonderful. So, can you just kind of give us a snapshot of the niche market of real estate that you’re in and how that works? Just kind of a basic overview?
Mark Evans: Yeah, absolutely. So, I’m a top-down process. I’m more of a, you guys, everyone here should Traction, the book Traction. I mean this just gives you a framework, kind of how I’ve ran my business subconsciously, and not really putting a lot of conscious effort into it to take it to the next level. So, what I’ve been able to do is, I’m the visionary guy. I have an implementer, which is my COO in the company, and then we have other people involved. We have sales acquisition, marketing, we have teams, and disposition, which sell our deals.
Mark Evans: We also have management, CFO, and admin, and then there’s, underneath them, there’s multiple layers as well. So, what I’ve done is just created multiple layers. So, I personally haven’t been to a property, Tom, I think you know this, since December of 2005. I haven’t went to any properties I own, buy everything in-house. But, again, the truth is, me just saying that, you might be an amateur thinking, “Oh my God, how in the world can you do that? You’re losing control, blah, blah, blah.” The truth is, I have more controls now than I ever have. Zero emotion, strictly numbers, X, Y, Z. We have people process procedures, kind of [inaudible 00:09:48] strategy.
Mark Evans: I’ve read The E Myth, I’ve really grown my real estate business by reading business-building books, not necessarily learning a tactic and strategy and real estate investing. That’s easy. You can learn that online in 20 seconds from anybody. I mean, everyone’s [inaudible 00:10:06] to train you that. How do you turn it into a business? And that’s kind of what I’ve done. I have, I mean there’s multiple layers. Like I was [inaudible 00:10:13] saying, Tom, is having the team check-off and we have check points and processes in place that allow me to close deals. When you told me I had to talk about deals, I don’t even know the addresses. I don’t know the buyers. I don’t know the [inaudible 00:10:27]. I had to email my team, different departments, and say, “Hey, what’s our last four deals? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And they’re like, “Oh, here you go, boom.”
Mark Evans: In 15 seconds I’m like, “Wow, that’s pretty cool.”
Tom Krol: That’s awesome. Now, what kind of deals do you do? How do your deals work? I know it’s a little bit unique. What does that look like?
Mark Evans: So, there’s different types of wholesaling, as you know. I actually purchased everything in-house. I’m not saying that’s where people should start. I do that because I have a big team and I have to have quality control. I need controls in-house. I’ll just give you a big example of why we do that. Number one, we have the cash to do that. Right? That’s [inaudible 00:10:57] obvious. Number two, what happens is, if you have a sales team, and you have a deal, and you’re wholesaling, and the title issues come aboard, all of a sudden, now your sales team sold a deal, but you can’t sell it ’cause you don’t have clear title.
Mark Evans: Now everyone’s mad in the company. It’s never a good thing for anybody. So, what I do, I’m more in the turnkey investing world, where we have, we handhold [inaudible 00:11:18] across the country. Across the world, actually. They buy from us every single day and they’re buying anywhere from 30 to $60,000 houses. And we also have an apartment complex division as well, too, Tom. But, the single family world is massive for us. I mean, we do a lot of deals in that space every month.
Tom Krol: That’s amazing. I love it. I love it. All right, so that is incredible. So, let’s deep dive some of these deals. So these deals, first of all, we usually ask details about the [inaudible 00:11:43]. I don’t know if you’re going to know all the details because you’re not really the guy going out getting them, but these last four deals, what time period did you do them in and are you comfortable sharing the addresses with us?
Mark Evans: Yeah, I’ll share some of the addresses. One big one we did, I won’t share the address just because it’s a bigger deal, and the guys involved, I don’t want to share that information. I’m going to give you the generalization, some real numbers, but yeah, absolutely. So, I, what I said, I emailed my team, and they emailed me back today about 12:30, but 811 Seymour, for example, and this was in Columbus, Ohio. We actually acquired it. I don’t have the exact acquisition number, but we bought it and sold it for $44,000. We generated $11,500 on that deal, and that was 17 deal-day process. So we try to stay in 21 days and under. So, from the time my acquisition team talks to the seller, to going out and doing inspections to renegotiating or reinspecting, to taking it to title, to closing it, and then reselling it. We try to be within 21 days or less. Ideally, 15 to 20 days is very good, ’cause that’s the deal float for us. I mean, that’s very important.
Tom Krol: Now, how did you find that? How did you find that deal? [inaudible] What kind of a marketing, or how did the seller find you, or how did you find the seller?
Mark Evans: 99% of our deals are going to be found by direct mail. If you’re not doing direct mail, you really, well, first of all, you have no business if you’re not doing direct mail. You have a glorified job if you’re out there beating the streets, driving for dollars. There’s nothing wrong with that in the beginning, but knowing what you and I know now, Tom, I mean, direct mail is where it’s at. [inaudible 00:13:14]
Tom Krol: Absolutely. That’s my bread and butter. So, direct mail, we hear that all the time. Absolutely. I totally agree with ya. Now, obviously you’re not the guy who is going to meet there. How do you go about locking this property up and getting it under contract? You’re actually buying this property, so do have somebody who goes out there, or do you do everything on the phone, or what does that look like?
Mark Evans: So my whole team is in Palm Beach, Florida. Everyone deploys contracts virtually. So, if I’m talking to you, Tom, and you’re like, “Mark, I’m selling my deal, or blah, blah, blah”, we’re like, “Great, I’m going to send you a contract.” We do zero due diligence until we have a signed contract back. So, if we send out 10 contracts, typically we’ll get about 70 to 80% of them back within a 48-hour timeframe. And then what happens, then we deploy out an inspector. Now, it might not be the conventional inspector that most people think you’re paying 3 to $500. We have a process, a formula, that we utilize in our company to deploy inspectors out. We give them a 17 page checklist of exactly what we’re looking for, and they follow the rules. Again, it’s a company, it’s procedure, a process.
Tom Krol: I love it. Michael Gerber, Mike Michalowicz. This is great. I mean this is right up the alley of, right down to Ray Kroc with McDonald’s. I think this is fantastic. So, so yeah, this is great. So, the con-, so the seller contacts you. Now, I want to ask this question. A lot of people who are just starting off in wholesaling and real estate investing, they know they want to buy at a discount. They hear this term motivated seller. What are some of the main drivers or reasons why a seller would sell to you? Why would they say, “Hey, I’m going to sell to Mark instead of calling an agent.” What does that look like? What are some of the scenarios or the [inaudible 00:14:39] situation?
Mark Evans: That’s a great question. I mean, so this particular property was inherited. The seller was in California, so they inherited the property. If you live in California, you’re not going back to Columbus, Ohio to live. And, again, it’s all about convenience. We’ve all done this. So, it’s not like, again, it’s just a bigger ticket item. I always look at real estate like a hamburger, to Ray Kroc like you said earlier, but like to me it’s just a bigger ticket. People are looking for convenience and simplicity, and that we provide both of them. We don’t run them around a 15-page contract. We don’t, screw around and like, “Oh yeah, we’re going to do that. We’ll show up, we’ll call you tomorrow, blah, blah, blah.” If we say we’re going to do it, we do it. That’s very important. You don’t have to even take my word for it.
Mark Evans: Call 10 investors in your local market and talk to them. First of all, you’ll probably talk to two or three, maybe, you’ll leave eight, eight or nine messages, maybe one or two will call you back. People are inconsistent. And, again, if you’re listening and you’re brand new, you’re either consistent or nonexistent in this business…in business period. It’s kind of like your life. If you have a spouse, you don’t show up once in a while and still expect to have a good relationship. Eventually, it’s going to peter out and nothing’s going to be there. So we work really hard saying, “Hey, we’re going to call you tomorrow at two o’clock.” But we do exactly what we say we’re going to do.
Mark Evans: So, inherited, tired landlords are the best. I always love tired landlords, and then people that’s in over their head, because what they’ve done, they’ve put themselves in a box. They just don’t want to deal with it anymore, and they’re looking for a fast solution. That’s all they want. I mean, and as you know, Tom, these guys are, they’re everywhere.
Tom Krol: Oh yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you’re bringing up so many good points. I, when people are listening to this podcast, I just want to encourage our listeners, listen to this twice because I am telling you what…everything that Mark just said is pure gold. I mean, first of all, keeping, making and keeping small promises. Mark, I can tell you from, from in our business, this is so critical. If an acquisition manager says, “Oh, you know, I was going to call him back at noon, but, then I went out to lunch, and I forgot those.” That’s a canceled contract. If you don’t keep your word, you’ve gotta, you, we like to say you’ve gotta overpromise and overdeliver. So, you know, it’s the little things, and, not calling someone [inaudible 00:16:46] back or not following up or not [inaudible 00:16:48] client. It’s so key. Everything you just said is, I couldn’t agree with you more. So I think that’s wild.
Tom Krol: So, this one particular deal, I know you had nothing to do with it, but we’re talking 17 days total. $11,000, is that right?
Mark Evans: Yeah, 11 five, yep.
Tom Krol: That’s awesome. Now, you actually, so you’re not double-closing, you’re actually buying and then reselling, is that how you do it?
Mark Evans: That’s correct.
Mark Evans: So, we actually buy everything in-house, close it out. And then, again, some people are watching like, “Oh my God, that costs so much more. Why don’t you do that?” Again, it’s because we’re a real company, and we have control [inaudible 00:17:18] things and all that…might cost me an extra 700 bucks a deal. At the end of the day, it’s worth the non-headaches, for sure.
Tom Krol: Absolutely. I love it. And a lot of people who are just starting off, sometimes they’ll find a motivated seller. It’s somebody who, they just inherited a property, they put it under contract, and they’ll either go to buy it or to assign it, but they really struggle to find that cash buyer. If you wanted to tell a newbie, somebody who is a rookie, they’re just starting off, they just got their first deal under contract, what are some tips or tricks that you could share with these guys who want to sell that property or sign that property as fast as possible for as much money is possible?
Mark Evans: Yeah. Well, so there’s a couple things inside of that. Number one, if you have an amazing deal and you’re at least marketing it somehow, and it’s not being bought by a real investor like myself or you, Tom, within days, you might want to look at it and see if it’s a real deal. Right? That’s another thing. A lot of times people have leads on prospective deals, but they’re not real deals yet. Not because they can’t be, it’s just because sometimes experience level doesn’t allow it. So find someone you trust and say, “Hey, why don’t you join venture with me on this deal?” Oftentimes, well, people bring us deals every day, Tom. [inaudible 00:18:22] all the time, ’cause we’re real buyers, cash buyers, and close quick. So, as you build that reputation in the market, find those guys that are actually doing business.
Mark Evans: The biggest key I see is a lot of people waste people’s time. It drives my team nuts. My team will cut you off two times deep. No third time’s a charm. So [inaudible 00:18:40] two times and you waste our time and just put junk in front of us, you’re out of the system. We’ll never buy from you. So you’re only hurting yourself by not doing what you’re supposed to do.
Mark Evans: Another great way, again, bandit signs everywhere. I love bandit signs for ghost marketing. We do a lot of ghost marketing, put a sign. So, I’ll give you a prime example. If the properties are $50,000 in that market everywhere, put a ghost bandit sign out in the market, says cash, price, three bed, one bath, 28,000, call now, number. The reason is because the only people that typically call that are people who have cash, cause it says cash price.
Mark Evans: So they’re not going to call you and say, “Will you finance me? Blah, blah.” You might get a couple bozos that do that. But, overall, subconsciously, you only see that if you’re a cash buyer, right? Kind of like the gray Toyota…if you’re out buying a new car. So that’s a great way, just meeting people, shaking hands. I don’t personally recommend going to REIA clubs for this kind of stuff. A lot of people aren’t cash buyers. They’re more like newbies trying to figure out how to do a deal. So, go to where cash buyers hang out. Fancy restaurants, nice wine tasting events. That’s how I used to do it. I used to go there, hang out, shake hands. I never took business cards. Kind of interesting. Never took business cards. Especially now you just use your phone.
Mark Evans: But, at the end of the day, shake their hands, be impressible. Don’t waste their time and sit there and talk to them, “Oh my God, I got the best deal.” It’s like, “Hey, if you’re looking for great deals, let me know.” Boom, walk away. Just kind of keep the conversation moving, and then [inaudible 00:20:03] the next day, cause everyone’s busy. So follow up with them. If you come back and, after they get six, seven drinks in them, that’s a different story. Cause contracts [inaudible 00:20:11] find it there. At the end of the day, that’s, those are a couple of good ways. I love calling cash buyers. Like if I had to do it, if I had to do it right now, I think you could put 10 cash, real cash buyers in your system by going to the county courthouse, sitting down, or paying someone for this information or whatever, and calling people’s closed in the last 30 days.
Mark Evans: Something like, “Hey, Tom, I saw you closed on a house at 123 Any Town Street. The reason I’m calling, I have a property I’m looking to sell right down the street from you. Are you still buying? Right? And then boom, yes or no. This is where people mess up, Tom, as you know. They’re trying to sell it without engaging people.
Mark Evans: We’re very hardcore about engaging. Don’t oversell it. Most people call and say, “Hey Tom, I’m calling you about this property. I have a blah, blah, blah.” It’s all about you. It’s never about them. What we do is, we teach my team of how to go after them, create a conversation, engage them, extract information. Seven minutes later, they’re like, “Yeah, I have 250 grand. I don’t know what to do. Blah, blah blah blah.” Boom. Cash buyer on the hook.
Tom Krol: The consult ive close. I love it. I mean, Mark, this is pure gold, guys. I mean, Mark just brought up so many good…first of all, bandit signs, I couldn’t agree with you more. We get some of our best cash buyers from bandit signs. Absolutely. You know, as far as other people bringing you deals, a lot of people say, “Tom, why do you share all of this information? People are going to be using your same tactics in your market.” We do not believe in competition. We like to say collaboration, not competition. We get more deals from, quote-unquote, competitors than almost any other channel. So I couldn’t agree with you more, and hanging out where cash buyers hang out, ugh, just pure gold, because we always say, the wholesaler with the biggest cash buyer list, the most responsive cash buyer list, will always be the most profitable in that county.
Tom Krol: So, this is awesome. I think it’s great information. It’s so exciting to be talking to you and just, cause I know we’re talking and people might be thinking, “Oh well Mark Evans, it sounds good but is he really doing well?” Can you just, just to kind of inspire some of our listeners and just kind of give them, kind of give us a snapshot like just this week, this month, this quarter, what kind of numbers are you guys doing? Just to kind of give everybody a little bit of an idea of what kind of numbers you guys are pulling in.
Mark Evans: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, first of all, numbers are very delusional. I see a lot of people online, they’re like, “We’re doing 20 million dollars.” That’s awesome, but what does that mean? [inaudible 00:22:29] You’re losing a million to generate 20 million. So what I look at is bottom line rev, and then gross revenue. As a business owner, you always have to look at gross and bottom line, ’cause to inspire a team, you don’t inspire your team by saying, guys, we’re going to make a million dollars this week. You inspire them by growing it and sharing the big visual, and I talk with my mastermind clients about this all the time. Share it with them at a higher level and then understand what your bottom line numbers are, right? So that’s how all real corporations work. They don’t share with bottom line numbers except with the executive team. That’s the only ones that see that.
Mark Evans: So our goal in our company is constantly to do $10 million a quarter in gross rev, whatever that means. Keep in mind, our average product is $45,000. So, we’re looking at these numbers every single day. If we don’t do 60 deals in a month, we’re freaking out like, “What did we do wrong? Where’s the system broken?” Et cetera. So, our goal is minimum 60 deals a month. And there’s months we’ve done over 110, 112 deals in a month.
Mark Evans: So, there’s a lot of different ways to look at that, though. So, sometimes doing a lot of deals can hurt you more than less deals in the beginning, especially if you have no controls, no systems, no processes, and you might tap out on your cash. So, again, our goal is always to do 40 to $50 million a year in gross rev with those kinds of properties, and then just it up to that next level. And we have a couple apartment comp-and that’s on the single family side. So we have two different divisions, single family and apartment complex side.
Tom Krol: Absolutely, totally amazing. That’s great. And I couldn’t agree with you more. The difference between top line revenue and net is so critical. We just recently moved, on your recommendation, to profit first, from Mike Michalowicz. We have a official profit first bookkeeper. Absolutely amazing. Another piece of game-changing information that you gave me on a quick little 45-minute lunch that we had that completely changed our whole company. And Profit First for anybody, if you haven’t checked it out, I strongly recommend you read Profit First from Mike Michalowicz. Amazing book. And it teaches you, really, I mean it’s just, it’s too much to dive into right now, but it’s a different way of [inaudible 00:24:33] and it’s amazing. I also want to ask you, obviously, you’re successful and things are awesome for you, you have a beautiful, healthy family, you’re making tons of money.
Tom Krol: This is all great, and it’s really a hands-off business. People who are, who have made the mistake of creating that job, they left their job, they started wholesaling, they started working, and now they’re just working probably more than they were before. What would you say to those people to encourage them to kind of get started to, what are some of the first steps that they can do to replace themselves in their business? And obviously they’re not going to go to a team as big as you have right now, but what are some of the first initial steps that they can take a look at?
Mark Evans: Yeah, again, I mean, you can keep it as simple as creating a top-down chart. So, who are you, what’s your roles, et cetera, and then ask yourself, reverse- engineer the process. Where are you spending the most time that you can hand off with the fastest opportunity? That for me was a Deal Coordinator. I’m terrible, terrible, terrible at paperwork, but again, when you’re doing lots of deals, it has to get done. So I’m terrible at following up on a timely manner. I’m terrible at getting the paperwork done in a timely manner, like everything’s putting out fires at the end, right? So, literally ,it’s like ,11th hour, you’re closing the deal. All this stuff’s going on and it all hinges on you. So ask yourself, where is that person? I personally don’t recommend hiring someone in India for $3 an hour. I think it’s the dumbest thing you could ever do if you’re trying to grow a real business.
Mark Evans: Maybe in the beginning you think you’re saving money. The truth is, it’s costing you more than you’re saving plus the frustration is out of this world. So find someone locally for 10, 15, 20, $30 an hour. We pay 32 to 35 an hour for this person, right? Then what they do is, we give them the paperwork. Keep in mind, they’re your frontline talking to your buyers and sellers every day. So if they suck at what they do, if they can’t communicate properly, there just going to frustrate your end buyers and your sellers. And it just creates massive problems. So we look at that as an opportunity to teach our team of how to do that. So when I first started, I think I paid 12 bucks an hour for this person. It gives them a lot of opportunity and they took so much off. It literally gave me an extra six hours a day.
Mark Evans: More important, it wasn’t even about the six hours, about the headache that I didn’t have to deal with. So it got done better. It got done smoother, it was so much easier. And then closing just started happening so much easier, Tom. Then I’m like, “Wow, if I can get myself out of this way, wonder what else I can do.” And then I just started testing.
Tom Krol: Oh no, I agree. Like rush towards failure. So let me ask you, so just specifically you’re saying the first person that these guys want to look at is gonna be that paperwork person, the person who’s handling all of the prep for the closing and the contracts and the purchase agreement, the assignment agreement, is that basically who is a good first person to hire for some of these guys who are just starting?
Mark Evans: Well, you got to ask yourself, what is your gift right now? If you’re really good at paperwork and all that, you probably are terrible at sales. So you might want to hire a sales person. If you’re great a sales, I know you suck at dealing with paperwork. I know you suck at doing consistent marketing. You’re really good at first, but then you just peter off two days later or two minutes later if you’re like everyone else. So what you got to do is find people where you’re weak at and just hand it off. Again, eventually though, Tom, this is what took me a long time to figure out, I wish I had figured it out a long time ago. I’m really good at talking to sellers and buyers. I’ve done tens of thousands of calls with these different types of people and I actually genuinely, I do genuinely care to help them and I know I can.
Mark Evans: So me handing off the reigns, to talking to buyers, people who have millions of dollars in cash, and all this. I thought, “No one’s going to talk to them like I can.” And that might be true, but, also, I can’t talk to 20 people a day, 30 people a day, 40 people a day. So when I started handing these pieces off, slowly, but surely, I really started seeing some amazing consistency into process, into the sale cycle as well. And it didn’t hinge on me. Right? So you got [inaudible 00:28:17] and hand off the pieces that matter, today.
Tom Krol: Oh man, I’m telling you, I am going to listen to this podcast myself. Yeah, you’re 100% right. We still, I still do some of the analysis on the company. I mean, right now the company is kind of [inaudible 00:28:32] but it’s amazing to hear your perspective on it. I love how you just said that one of the things that you do is, instead of looking at a specific position, you really start with what are you good at? Keep doing that. But the stuff that you really stink at, outsource that. So, and I agree. I think as entrepreneurs, we’re at 35,000 feet, we can, we’re really great at forming relationships, networking, creativity. We like variety. But when it comes down to hitting that marketing deadline and doing details and data entry, that’s where I know stink, and outsourcing that first was a key for me.
Mark Evans: Every entrepreneur is in that same boat. It’s not a secret, but the thing is, if you keep trying to figure out how to get better at it yourself, you’re actually losing more money [inaudible 00:29:11]. You’re stressed out for no reason. You’re going to eventually peter out. The truth is, Tom, this is something, I have a conversation with my COO every week about. Like, every week, I’m like, “Peter, I need you to focus on X, Y, Z.” He’s like, “[inaudible 00:29:24] control everything?” Eventually, you bottleneck and just get wore out [inaudible 00:29:29] leaps and bounds in amazing [inaudible 00:29:30] ways, but us as the owners, we have to see that foresight and go in there and be able to help him and assist him in the show.
Tom Krol: I love it and you’re 100% right. I love it. So, let me ask you this question. I know we like to keep these episodes nice and short and concise and right to the point. You gave us a ton of meat and potatoes. This is something that I would encourage, again, our listeners to relisten to. I know a lot of people listening to this podcast are gonna want to reach out to you. Mark, I know you have an amazing mastermind. If someone wants to get a hold of you, what’s the best way for them to reach you? How can they get a hold of you? How could, how can they get more information from you?
Mark Evans: Yeah, no, I mean, again, my mastermind’s here for people that are in the business doing deals already, you’re amazing at what you do, Tom. Again, I refer you to clients that come to me and say, “Mark, I want to do [inaudible 00:30:13].” I’m like, I’m not the guy to teach you the beginning stages. I’m not good at that. You’re amazing at it. I’m better at the business- building pieces and start handing pieces off [inaudible 00:30:22] growth. So I have a mastermind group. It’s $50,000 a year, and what we do is, we take people under our wing, we, it’s a small group, less than 20 people, and we’re really just like connecting at a high level. So if you’re doing deals, I’d love to talk to you. It’s email@example.com is my email, private email. Just tell me where you guys met me from here at Tom’s show and I’d love to talk to you one-on-one. Whatever I can do to help you guys. I’m always here. But, I don’t want to just give information and then do nothing with it. You’ve got to do something with it, Tom.
Tom Krol: Absolutely. I love it. Action takers. I’d ring the victory bell, but as usual I’m working from home and Lily is sound asleep, so my wife will come in and kill me if I ring that bell right now, but that’s awesome. Mark, I know you’re a busy guy. I’m not…actually, you’re not a busy guy, but I know you value your time.
Mark Evans: I’m actually doing some [inaudible 00:31:07] charity stuff today.
Tom Krol: Tom, real quick, someone asked a question, I don’t know if you can see it. They asked, “What are you looking for? 40 to 50% undervalue?”
Mark Evans: So real quick, that question is actually an amateur question. I’m not saying that disrespectful way. The thing is, you got to ask your buyers what they’re looking for. I’ll buy at a hundred percent value. It all depends on my deal flow and structures and all that is, if I know I can sell it for more, if I have a different opportunity, or maybe a different strategy, I’m not a conventional buyer and/or conventional seller. So, you got to ask the people that actually can close your deals and buy your deals. So, go to them and say, “Hey, if I had a three bed, two bath, what would you pay today?”
Mark Evans: That’s a different story, ’cause tomorrow, next week, Tom, for our company, we might be growing our buyer’s list bigger. We might have 40, 50, 60 people. Right now we have about 60-something people in the pipeline ready to buy from us right now at this moment. So, our pro-, we don’t deter from our product quality. So, if you came to me and said, “Mark, I got this deal for 35K and I already have a buyer, my [inaudible 00:32:05] 35, 45, 46, whatever, I might just take the deal and normally I’d pay 28 for it. We might buy it for 35 today because we need to fill an order with our clients and make money today as opposed to waiting three, four, five, six, seven weeks or months.
Tom Krol: I get it, I love that. Yeah, that’s a great point. Know what your buyers want. And we always encourage the acquisition managers, we always say hold their feet to the fire. When you bring a deal, when you present the deal, don’t just let the buyer get away with saying no. You have to find out, first of all, why are they saying no? But, more importantly, what would they pay for the property?
Tom Krol: So one thing we always like to say is you, “Hey Jack, you said you didn’t like it. Tell me more about that. But, and then we’ll say, hey, what would you buy it for?”
Tom Krol: And they’ll say, “No, I wouldn’t buy.”
Tom Krol: “Well, what if I got it for 40,000…would you buy it?”
Tom Krol: “Oh, I bought it for 40,000.”
Mark Evans: Here’s another thing, too. A great simple way, if I was talking to you, Tom, I would simply ask you a question like, “Tom, that’s awesome man. I’m sorry this deal didn’t work out. Can you give me an example of the last one or two deals you did, though?” And then what you’re going to do is understand their buying criteria through actual closing deals, not necessarily futuristic or “Oh my God, that might be amazing.” Or them just blowing smoke. The truth is, they might say, “Well, actually, I’ve never closed a deal yet.”
Mark Evans: So that happens as you, in the beginning stages. But Tom, you and I, we can have a conversation with someone. I could tell you in 0.3 seconds if they’re a beginner or not, just by the questions they ask.
Tom Krol: Absolutely.
Mark Evans: And that’s through 19 years of experience. So you might not know that in the beginning, but if you’re brand new, just [inaudible 00:33:30] today, I would still ask them, tell me the last one or two deals you’ve done so I can get kind of a gist of where you’re buying and how you’re buying. That’s a huge step, by the way. My team does that, uses that conversation every single day.
Tom Krol: That is such a big tip. I can’t, as soon as you said it, it just hit me like a ton of bricks. You’re 100% right. That is such a key because what that really is going to do in my mind is that is going to really take our team and they’re going to stop wasting so much time with tire kickers and, really, determining who’s a tire kicker or not is, this a great way to cut through all that fat.
Tom Krol: So, I love that tip. That’s amazing.
Mark Evans: And you let them go, too, Tom, mentally and emotionally, right? Cause if you’re like, “Why aren’t you buying? Why aren’t you buying? It’s a great deal. What would make you buy it?” Instead you say, “Look Tom, maybe this still isn’t right for you. I appreciate you looking at it. However, just let me help better serve you. What type of deals…” and then, boom, you take all the emotion out of that deal. Now it’s just consult ive, right? So we’re 100% consultant company on that side. On both sides.
Tom Krol: I love it. That’s the consult ive approach. I agree. The team is, we’re always saying, “Hey, look, if you’re convincing, if you’re selling, you’re doing this incorrectly.” So I am, I’m totally impressed. I am going to absolutely send, I’m going to post this recording as soon as we’re done right to our tribe and I’m going to request that our tribe watch this because, Mark, you’re an amazing guy, but I love it. So, I want to keep having followup podcasts with you.
Tom Krol: Can I bug you again soon?
Mark Evans: Well you’re never bugging me, Tom. I always love to help you out, man.
Tom Krol: Awesome, thank you.
Mark Evans: You can wire me money anytime you want.
Tom Krol: You got it. I’m going to be doing that very soon actually. I think you’re getting a wire on Monday, so I appreciate it. But thank you, brother, for spending time with us, and go enjoy. I know you’re looking like you’re ready to hit the beautiful weather down here. It’s a gorgeous day in Florida. So, and I want to get together soon and have another cheeseburger, pick your brain.
Mark Evans: Awesome, Tom. Thank you, guys. Hey, guys, never give up. Just stay focused. I screw up, Tom. We screw up every single day, as you know.
Tom Krol: Absolutely.
Mark Evans: Don’t give up. Find great mentors. Tom’s a great mentor. Find people that can help elevate your game, not just in the real estate space, CFO side, how to read a profit loss statement, how to look at business, not a business plan, but business structure, like those pieces matter as you start growing. Don’t look [inaudible 00:35:40] activity. Don’t confuse it with production, though. [inaudible 00:35:43].
Tom Krol: I love it. Take action and yeah, that book you recommended Traction and The E-Myth. Amazing books. I’ve read both of them, a huge fan. They’re on the resource page, and awesome. So, you guys, that was Mark Evans. He is an all-star. It was such a blessing to have him on the show. I’m so excited that he had took some time away from his day to do that with us. If you want to find out more, we’re going to post Mark’s email address about his mastermind in the show notes, so look for it there, and if you’re interested in wholesaling, type the word wholesaling to 313131, and we will give you some no BS, no fluff tips and advice to help you do more deals today. All right, everybody, thanks for spending time and we’ll talk to you next time.
Mark Evans: Awesome, Tom. Thanks a lot. Bye.