Posted on: February 11, 2021

“Start with a little discipline and begin to string them together because doing less than you are capable of doing creates a lack of self-esteem. And lack of self-esteem is the greatest deterrent to success.” Our guest for this episode carries himself with much confidence to emerge triumphant in his business.

We have today a young, outstanding and confident entrepreneur, Devin Foster. He started cold calling and investing in 2014 after attending several events and learning from Robert Kiyosaki. He got decided in 2019 to work hard on the business after listening to Wholesaling Inc. podcasts that got him started learning tools and got into the Wholesaling Inc.’s TTP program and started for real while working full time.

In this episode, Devin will share how he started his wholesaling business seriously through his learnings from Wholesaling Inc.’s TTP Program. He will also share the resources and tools he used in finding the leads that landed him his first $10,000 revenue. He will also talk about his learnings from his wholesaling journey and gave some advice to aspiring entrepreneurs.

Learn from Devin’s journey and be inspired by his persistence to do the business. Check out his conversation with Brent in this episode. Hit the play button and listen up.

Key Takeaways

  • How the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad started getting him interested in wholesaling
  • Getting his boost from the TTP program
  • What drives him to do cold calling after his work shift
  • How he found his leads
  • How he got his first $10,000 revenue
  • His computation based on price per square foot
  • His bits of advice for startups
  • The big goal for Devin

RESOURCES:

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Episode Transcription

Brent Daniels:
Welcome to the wholesaling Inc podcast, America’s number one podcast for new real estate investors, where we know that finding discounted properties is the most proven path to financial freedom. I am your host, Brent Daniels and I am telling you if I can do it, so can you. Let’s get started. I’m going to start with this Jim Rohn quote because I think that this opens up this conversation that I’m about to have this, this interview that I’m going to have with a outstanding young wholesaler out of the triangle area of North Carolina but let me start with this. All right, “Start with the little disciplines and begin to string them together because doing less than you are capable of doing, creates a lack of self esteem. And lack of self-esteem is the greatest deterrent to success.”
And that leads us perfectly into this. It is my pleasure to introduce a young man that is the opposite of the lack of self-confidence and self-esteem, Mr. Devin Foster. Devin, say hello to everybody out there in the Rhino Nation on Wholesaling Inc.

Devin Foster:
Hey, what’s up? What’s going on team? I’m happy to be here. It’s surreal just hearing you do the intro because I was once on the opposite end, just listening in. I’m excited to talk to you, talk to everybody else and share my experience.

Brent Daniels:
Well, the beautiful thing is you heard the podcast and you didn’t just use it to listen to. There’s a great saying that always says … And it’s more about books Devin, then than about anything else but I think that it’s the same with this podcast, is it’s not what you get out of the podcast. Is what this podcast gets out of you. What actions are you going to take? What are you going to do to be better the next day and the next day and the next day? What experiences, what conversations, what networking and connections and opportunities are you going to find? And the actions that you’re going to take, that’s what’s really important. That’s the power of this podcast. It’s not just listening to it and feeling good. It’s about going out and taking action, which you have but before we get into all the action and what you do on a daily basis in your business and how you’ve been successful, bring us back. Bring us back to 2014/15 Rich Dad, Poor Dad. What happened to your brain? What happened inside your brain when you read that?

Devin Foster:
Yeah. Okay. I was a college student, long story short. I was in probably my sophomore year of college, wherever Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And I’ve always known that real estate was I guess, a foundation because I’m always interested in the wealthy, wealthy people. Real estate was a foundation but when I read that book … I always thought it was a huge barrier to get into real estate but when I read that book and it talked about wholesaling and what the rich dad did and just his ideologies versus what the poor dead did, related to it. And a lot because it’s like that with my family as well. My dad has certain things that he’s done. He’s gotten to a certain point but I know there’s more out there. That was very intriguing to me. And then just so happened my friend and I, we ended up going to a Robert Kiyosaki … One of the weekend events.

Brent Daniels:
Yeah.

Devin Foster:
Went to one of those. I ended up paying for the three day event. Went to the three day event. This was my sophomore year in college. That opened us up to just the basic knowledge, basic idea of what wholesaling is. And then from there, we actually invested into … I guess it’s PropStream now but everybody has their own version of PropStream.

Brent Daniels:
Right.

Devin Foster:
We invested into the software then and we’ve had it for a long time but that is when I first got interested but I guess I started making some cold calls, trying to figure out what I was doing but I had no clue what I was doing. My sophomore year, sophomore/junior year and would do it here and there. Not really serious, just trying to figure out how to do it throughout my college career. And then after I graduated, I guess I got a little bit more serious.

Brent Daniels:
Let me just dig into this just a little bit because for real, my sophomore year of college, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, right. And I’m in college, I’m studying finance. I’m thinking that I’m probably going to do something corporate. I never really knew what I was going to do. I really didn’t even know what college was really for. I knew that I had gotten in, I got decent grades. I was playing sports. I was doing well but I didn’t really have any direction and that book really set it up. And it gave me a direction. I thought that you had to get a real estate license, so I did that. And you go down these different paths. You actually went a much, much better path in my opinion and found wholesaling early on. And you said … Wait a second. You’re telling me Devin, that you’re 20 years old. You’re in college. You are cold calling homeowners and asking them if they would consider an offer.

Devin Foster:
At that time, yeah, I was like 19. 18, 19, I tried it. I tried it. I wasn’t successful then but I just jumped out there and tried it, yeah. I remember my roommate … It’ll be after class, some nights 6:37. He’s sitting in the living room and I just get on the phone and start calling numbers that I found. We were using some sketchy, skip tracing tool too. It was a lot of weird stuff but yeah.

Brent Daniels:
Probably a lot of wrong numbers and everything.

Devin Foster:
Yeah, ton of wrong numbers. Calling family members, shops, auto shops and all type of other stuff but I tried it. Yeah.

Brent Daniels:
Everybody’s having fun. Everybody’s studying or not studying, going to college, whatever. And you’re out there calling homeowners for real estate. Did your friends and your family … Could you communicate with them, tell them what you were doing? Did they understand it at all?

Devin Foster:
No, not really. Like I said, I had one friend that I was going on this journey with but I’ll say … I dove into it a little bit heavier than he did but no, my mom, my dad, they just knew it was something I was interested in. Of course, you’re parents, you got kids, they’re always interested in something. Yeah, they just knew it was something I was interested in. My friends still to this day … Oh, some of my friends will reach out now that I’m actually starting to find success a little bit. They’ll be like, “I’m really proud of you for doing it. I know you’ve been looking into this for a long time.”
Or they’ll find out some information in and, “The wholesaling game is actually real work that you have to put in. I didn’t know that much went into it.”
Or whatever. Yeah, at that time, I will say I still had my fun though in college. I definitely still had my fun.

Brent Daniels:
Well, good. Good. As you should. The seed was planted early, which is incredible.

Devin Foster:
Yeah.

Brent Daniels:
And the earlier that you can start … Even if you’re listening to this and it’s your first time and you’re getting into wholesaling and you’ve got that fire in your belly now and you know that it’s a way to really feed that passion that you have for real estate and working for yourself and being an entrepreneur and building a business, if you’re feeling that listening to this, you’re going through all this … If you’re listening to this, it all starts with just picking up the phone and talking and having a quality conversation with a distressed property owner. You don’t have to over complicate this. There’s ugly houses down the street, go get their address, get their number, find their phone number at BatchSkipTracing.com, BatchSkipTracing.com And get a discount when you use TTP, just to put that in there. And call them and start.
And that’s exactly what Devin did. It started something special because if you’re always thinking about it and you’re always wondering and you’re not taking the action and like Jim Rohn, you’re not living up to your full potential, it’s going to tear apart that that self-confidence, that you have, that self-esteem but if you take the action, even if it’s a negative response, that’s a win. You took the action, right. Did you feel like it was something that you could build some momentum? Obviously you’re young, you’re doing your thing. When did you get serious?

Devin Foster:
I’ll say I really got serious after I graduated college but just in that beginning part, that’s when I actually … I started listening to Wholesaling Inc. I found Wholesaling Inc, the podcast and all this good stuff. I would ride around, even during my corporate internship. My major was marketing and sales at school. I had internships and all that stuff but the whole time, when I was riding around and doing my job, then I’ll be listening to podcasts but once I graduated college, I got really serious. I started, I would say what, last year? I’ll say summer of 2019, is when I got really serious and started calling myself, figuring out the different tools that I needed. I was calling after work.
Once I started my corporate job, I’m a corporate salesman, so I’m a executive account manager for a big company. I won’t name the company but it’s a technology company. It’s a lot of work that I had to do. I will be calling from 5:00 to 8:00 PM on average or 6:00 to 8:00 PM. Whenever I got home, I would just jump on the phone and just start calling but ultimately, I realized like, “Okay, I haven’t got traction that I needed. I need to figure out something else.”
And I ended up saving enough money and that’s when several months later, I think the next … What was it? May or something of 2020, I ended up buying into your program.

Brent Daniels:
Yeah.

Devin Foster:
[inaudible 00:10:21] to figure out something. I saved up some money and got into the TTT program. And then from there, honestly, that was the … I’ve called this last year my real start because once I got into the TT program … I already knew a lot of the basic information and stuff that I need but it gave me that little extra boost that I needed. Especially in talking to you, just having you personally there to talk to, gave me that extra boost and knowledge of whether that’s just systems or people I need to reach out to, to get started. And that’s when I ended up hiring a cold caller ultimately too. And that’s where I say I really got started.

Brent Daniels:
I love it. I love it. Well, listen … Listen, everybody out there listening to this, Devin’s going to work full time. He’s working in sales and marketing full-time. He’s getting off, he’s taking a little bit of a breath, he’s transitioning his brain and his speech and the way that you use certain words when you’re talking to homeowners that are different than you’re using in corporate. He’s changing all this up and from five to eight or six to eight, he’s making calls after work. All right, that’s what I mean. Why do it Devin? You’ve got a nice corporate job. You went to school. Why not just kick back and relax after work? What is driving you to at 5:38 at night go, “Okay, time to switch this over and hit the dialer and start making calls and start doing lead follow-up and start doing things.”
What’s that switch? What’s going on?

Devin Foster:
For me, I’ve always known that I didn’t want to work for someone my whole life. I’ve never thought the whole working 30 years and then you get to retire thing was a real thing. Why would you want to spend most of your life working? I don’t understand that stuff. I got my nice corporate job or whatever. I’m now at a level where I’m making pretty decent amount of money, six figures but I still understand how that traps people because it’s a ton of work that you have to do. And I will say, I’m not … Me personally, I’m not the biggest corporate person. I’m not the most interested in whatever … Just working for anybody in general. It doesn’t make me excited. It doesn’t make me happy. I also want to change just the whole standard for my family. I want to be in the big leagues and I know just working a regular job, you’re not going to get there just working a regular job. You have to have multiple things and you have to also know how to manage your money.
And real estate is one of those places where people manage their money, invest their money and grow their money into different markets. For me, it’s just a … I know I don’t want to do this long term, no longer than 5 to 10 years. If I got to put in the extra work after hours, even though it’s a super hard time, coming home and doing extra hours and cold calling, I know I don’t want to work long term. That’s the whole reason that I do it. I just don’t want to work for anybody for a long time.

Brent Daniels:
I love it and I …

Devin Foster:
Yeah.

Brent Daniels:
And listen, I think everybody listening knows that you won’t. You’re not going to be working for them for a long time. Let’s start breaking down some deals because you’ve closed a couple of deals. We have talked off air about the one that you really got a lot of learning experience from. Let’s break that thing down and open that one up. Break it down for me. Where did you find this deal? Did you call him? Did you text him? What dialer were you using? What list was it? All this stuff, let’s break it all down so everybody has the resources, so that they can mirror your success.

Devin Foster:
Got you. I think this deal actually came from an inherited deed list that I got. I’m using CallTools. I actually switched over from Mojo to CallTools but this one came from an inherited deed. This lady reached out. I actually hired a cold caller. I want to highlight that, through [Max This 00:14:08] and Real Estate Project Home Solutions. Those are my people. They are my bread and butter right now, the reason I have closed deals, so shout out to them.

Brent Daniels:
Real quick, just so that I can break this down. CallTools, for everybody, is a dialer. He also mentioned Mojo. Mojo Sells is also a dialing system that helps you make calls. Your inherited deed list, where did you get this inherited deed list from?

Devin Foster:
I think I got this one from flipthisrealestatelist.com.

Brent Daniels:
Yeah, yeah. All right, our good friend Erik Torrente, does a lot of work with our TTP family. He does a really good job. Flipthisrealestate.com And then the other one, Max Fish, which has an excellent, excellent, excellent cold calling company, callingreps.com, callingreps.com. Use TTP, you get a little bit of a … A little boost there as a code but definitely talked to Max. He’s incredible. He hooked you up with a great caller, right.

Devin Foster:
Yeah, great caller. And ever since then … I hired him September 1st and literally the first deal I got, I’ll highlight this, first deal I got was literally within the first maybe 30 minutes to an hour of him working for me. That was one of the leads that he put in my CRM system. Yeah, it paid off anyways.

Brent Daniels:
That’s bananas.

Devin Foster:
Yeah. This second deal … My cold caller called this person, this lady and she wanted to sell her house. Originally, I think her asking price was around 88. This is where I say it taught me a lot of lessons because my numbers were skewed but … Yeah. It was 88, scheduled … Followed up with her multiple times. I think I talked to her probably three times before I actually went out to go see the house. I went out to see the house, there was probably three or four other wholesalers there as well.

Brent Daniels:
Oh, wow.

Devin Foster:
Yeah, she didn’t tell any of us either. It was just a big surprise showing. She’s competing for the best price but …

Brent Daniels:
Real quick, Calling Reps gives you a call or they call this inherited list. Once they get the lead, what does she do? Does she email it to you? Does she text it or he or whoever it is? How do you get the lead from them?

Devin Foster:
Yeah, so my guy [Nor 00:16:27], Nor Anthony, that’s my cold caller. Whenever he gets the lead, he inputs it into my Podio system. I use Podio and I actually … I use Podio for free actually. I found the nice little template on there that I worked around the REI template to how I wanted it. And he uploads the list to Podio. Also sends me an email and texts whenever it’s a good lead. He uploads it to Podio. I go into Podio, check all the information, has the Zillow links right in there, all that good stuff. And then I do my followups and call. After my cold caller from reps calls, I do my followup calls and I talked to this lady, went out to the house, did my calculations of course, beforehand. And the ARV on this one was … This is where I messed up. Take a little pause right here. ARV on this one, I originally calculated, was around 212. And I do my ARV by price per square foot. I don’t just do the average of the numbers. I do my ARV by price per square foot.

Brent Daniels:
Break that down. Explain to people what that means because there’s people that have never heard price per square foot and it’s … A lot of people have but explain what do you mean by that?

Devin Foster:
Yeah. Say you have four properties in the area recently sold for different prices. You have the average of that, which is just dividing those four properties, dividing the amount by that four, right.

Brent Daniels:
Yeah.

Devin Foster:
You find the average but the average price per square foot, I don’t do this calculation myself, PropStream is right in there. If you go in there, it’ll show you the average of the price per square foot. I’d take that number. And that’s the average of how much … Basically, whatever the property sold for is the average of each square foot, it was this dollar amount.

Brent Daniels:
Right.

Devin Foster:
Say it’s $42 price per square foot and I have a $1,300 or 1300 square foot house, you multiply 1442 by the 1300.

Brent Daniels:
Beautiful.

Devin Foster:
That’s what I do.

Brent Daniels:
Yeah.

Devin Foster:
Yeah, I took the average of that. And now, where I messed up, is because I had my … The properties that are comped … It wasn’t too many that was right close at all that had been comped recently or that sold recently. I took some that was 0.6 miles away, not 0.5 and under or whatever else. It was 0.6. A lot of people don’t like to use that because it could be in a different neighborhood pretty much.

Brent Daniels:
Right.

Devin Foster:
You can go across the tracks and it’d be completely different, another place. That’s where I messed up with my comp. Really, the ARV was more so around 190. And once you start working with buyers and stuff 210 and up, it is a complete difference from 190. Long story short, I got this one under contract. Actually, this is also where I messed up too. I probably could’ve got it for more now that I’m learning a little bit more. As I said, this one was a learning experience for me. I got it locked up. I just went in because there was four other different people there. I just went in and said, “Hey, the numbers are working for me.”
I just offered 90. I offered to sell at 90. Originally, her asking price was 88 but I just went in and offered her 90 because I was like, “Hey, I want to get this locked up. And the numbers still work.”
I got it locked up for 90. And then once I marketed out to buyers … I had done a deal right before that one. The same buyer that bought the buyer before, he immediately called me. Soon as I shot it out, immediately called me. He was like, “Hey, I’ll give you … ”
I think I had put it out there for … The numbers are so good. I put it out there for 120, I think or 115, somewhere around there. And he’s like, “I’ll give you 110 right now.”
And I was like, “Hey, if this is how it’s going to be right off the gates, I want to see what else is out there.”
This is really three minutes after I had shot it out. I was like, “Okay, just give me a couple more days or whatever. I just sent it out. I want to see what else is out there.”
I got a bunch of inquiries, bunch of people reaching out. A few people came out to see the house and ultimately, everybody ended up backing out because the numbers were just off for them. I’m learning now, that this buyer that I’m working with, he does typically buy at a little bit higher price than most people. This house also was going to take around 50K in repairs. If you do the math, you buy it at 110 and take 50K and repair, it’s 160 and then whatever other costs that you have, slim margins but ultimately, I ended up getting it locked up for … What did I sell it to him? 100,000. Same buyer that originally offered me 110 but I waited a week or so. Everybody ended up backing out and I ended up taking a 10K less profit but I still made 10,000 on it. And that was higher than my first one that I did, which was at 8K. I still felt good about it.

Brent Daniels:
I took a bunch of notes here because we’re going to really get into this, okay because there is a rule of thumb and this is very interesting. And this is a practice that we have in our business. We look at the first 90 minutes after we blast out a property, it’s prime time, okay. And if we don’t have any responses, which is very, very, very, very, very rare, it’s really unique properties but in 90 minutes, usually the hottest buyers are going to respond. They’re going to be the easiest to work with and they’re going to pay the most. That’s what we found, okay. Now, there’s a rule of thumb that goes, “Hey, never make a decision until the day after. Let it cease and let those other guys see it, get multiple offers, right.”
And I get it because that’s the natural instincts but sometimes, sometimes the first offer you get is the best offer. And that would have been double. You would have made 20 instead of what you made. And I’m going to ring the bell, so hold on one second. The other thing is … Something to note here is, you are negotiating with other investors, right. You have to go and anytime that you’re negotiating with other investors, you have to put your best foot forward to get the shot, right. And whatever you did, there’s something about the way that you approached the seller. There’s something about the way that you communicated with the seller. There’s something about the way … The seller just internally felt about you Devin, that decided to work with you instead of somebody else. That’s a huge feather in your cap.
Build on that, build on that, build on that, build on that because you can bring that personality into those deals and feel confident getting deals that other people can’t because they go in and they’re just awkward or they’re not as confident or they just don’t have the certainty and likeability that you do. That’s huge. That is really, really huge, brother.
Negotiating with other people, first offer in that 90 minutes. If you have enough buyers and you’re blasting it out and I’ll say enough buyers is a thousand or more buyers that you send it out to. We work with between 5 and 6,000. We’re always trimming it up and always adding but within that 90 minutes, it’s a good indicator on how you price the properties. Congratulations. You ended up netting, how much?

Devin Foster:
10,000. Woo, let’s go.

Brent Daniels:
Well, by the way, 10,000, part-time, having somebody else make those calls for you. You’re working full time. It just builds. It just starts to build and build. How’s your pipeline of leads right now with your caller and with your efforts from earlier?

Devin Foster:
With my caller right now, I think I have at least 70, 70 leads in my CRM system. I’ll be honest, I’m a little backed up right now. This last month I took a breather, just everything. Work was stressful, all that good stuff but I got a good 70, maybe around 80 to 90 actually, if I consider warm leads as well. Probably more than that.

Brent Daniels:
You better get back to work.

Devin Foster:
Yeah.

Brent Daniels:
You better get those leads. I guarantee you there’s three or four deals in there probably worth 40 or $50,000 without a doubt, maybe more. There could be one deal in there worth that. Make sure you get on that. That’s incredible, just absolutely incredible. You’re working full time. You’ve got the stresses of everything going on. You’ve got work and then you come off and then you’re working after. Once you get off, in your free time, you’re working on your own business. You start hiring, you start going. And all of a sudden, now you’ve got the momentum and that’s the blueprint. That’s the game plan but it all starts with making the decision that you’re going to be proactive, making the decision that you’re going to reach out to the most distressed property owners in your community because they’re not going to help themselves, “Well, Brent, you guys are just low-balling people. Isn’t that wrong?”
No, you have to understand that you were coming … A lot of people come from a perspective that everybody wants price for their property. It doesn’t always come down to that. 6 to 10% of our market is in distress at all times. And there are people that will trade equity on their house for speed and convenience, as long as they like you, as long as they understand that you’re going to take care of them. And you did that. And so for that, you got paid $10,000. It should have been 20. It should have been 20 but it was 10. And now you’re rolling. Speak to anybody new, anybody getting started, anybody that’s hearing this and is inspired and they want to go out and they want to be successful in this business. What advice would you give them on anything and whatever. This is your time.

Devin Foster:
I would say don’t stop trying. Don’t stop trying because I’m the type of person where … Like I said, I got interested in wholesaling back in 2014 or whenever it was, ’15 but I’m not finding success until just now but that’s because multiple times throughout that time span, I would get into it a little bit. Then take months off or a year off or whatever but … It’s always been something I want to do but if you really want to do it, if you take the time and actually sit down and just trust the process and keep … Like you said, just taking imperfect action, then ultimately, you’ll find success as long as you’re making sure the action that you’re taking is productive.

Brent Daniels:
I love that.

Devin Foster:
And me personally, even though I’m in corporate sales, I hate cold calling. I feel like real estate wholesale and cold calling is completely different. If you want to … If you don’t like cold calling or if you don’t like anything else, there’s other ways that you can do it, especially if you’re working part-time, if you got a little money saved up. Like I said, I didn’t really start finding success until I hired somebody to do my cold calls because then now, they’re able to put in the numbers and I’m getting … He’s working for me for 40 hours a week. Now, I have the metrics that I need to get leads.

Brent Daniels:
Love it, I absolutely love it. Dream big with me here. What does this look like? What is the big goal? Where do you see yourself? You talked about changing this for you and your family and the trajectory of being an entrepreneur and getting into real estate and understanding the power of this. What does this look like? What is the big goal?

Devin Foster:
The big goal for me … I’ll break it down into sections. The big goal for me, I actually want ultimately … I do want to be in real estate full-time but ultimately, I want to get into commercial real estate development. That’s my long-term goal but I’m starting out on the ground floor, going through the motions, trying to learn. My goal for just this year … I actually just did my goals for my business and stuff. I want to do 19 to 20 deals this year. And the way I broke that up, is I’m just getting back on the ball. A deal for these next three months, one deal and then by April, I want to be doing at least two deals a month.

Brent Daniels:
Love it.

Devin Foster:
I got small incremental goals that I’m trying to hit. And ultimately, I guess within the next three years or so, I want to be doing this full time. I want to leave my corporate job. Check back in with me in a good three years, you’ll see.

Brent Daniels:
I love it. I have no doubt that you will. And listen, you’re not going through the motions. You’re going through the whole thing. You are really in this. And even though you’re doing it part-time, you are doing it every day and you’re building it and it’s going to be. And listen, you’ve got a runway. You have a goal of three years. I think you’re going to do it in half that time, truly but absolutely incredible. What an inspiration. How do people get in touch with you if they want to reach out, if they want to squat up with you or maybe joint venture with you in the triangle there in North Carolina. How did they get ahold of you?

Devin Foster:
Yeah, you can reach out to me on Instagram, probably be the best. And my handle name is aspired20 and that’s A-S-P-I-R-E-D 20. You can find me there and just reach out to me, message me. Your messages will probably go to my general but I’ll see it eventually. Just message me. I’m a open guy. I don’t mind talking people.

Brent Daniels:
I love it. TTP, there you go.

Devin Foster:
That’s it.

Brent Daniels:
I love it. Well, thank you, Devin. Thank you so much. Guys, Devin mentioned a resource PropStream, you can check that out and trial it at ttpdata.com, ttpdata.com. It is a phenomenal tool. Every single investor should have it. If you’re going to take it seriously, it just cuts out all of the work for you. ttpdata.com and if you’re interested in joining the most proactive group in real estate investing, it is the TTP family. Go to WholesalingInc.com/TTP. That’s WholesalingInc.com/TTP. Scroll down, check it out, check out the testimonials. If it feels good in your gut, sign up for a call. I’d love to work with you personally. And until next time, I encourage you all to talk to people. See you, love you.

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