Posted on: January 27, 2020

Would you like to have a lucrative wholesaling business and earn a huge passive income on the side? Jason Lewis has been able to effectively do both and in today’s episode, he candidly shared how he made it all happen!

Jason has been in the real estate industry for 7 years now and he has been able to successfully wholesale and flip properties as well as keep a few rentals. One of Brent Daniels’ and Todd Toback’s rockstar students, Jason has been consistently closing deals (as many as 63 in a year!) for many years now.

In this episode, you’ll not only hear a review of 2 of the most lucrative deals Jason has done, you’ll also learn how he managed to own rental properties and how he cherry-picks them. So many beneficial wholesaling and real estate gold nuggets in today’s episode, so don’t miss it!

Key Takeaways

  • The marketing channels he uses
  • An example of a great deal he did and how he found it
  • How he finds people who’ll drive for dollars and where he posts his ads
  • How he compensates those who drive for dollars on his behalf
  • How he meets with sellers
  • Where he gets the money to buy the properties
  • What he likes about buying a home and marketing it after
  • What he’ll recommend to those who have a small cash buyers list
  • An example of a deal where he decided to keep the property
  • What the beautiful part of wholesaling is for him
  • The secret to becoming wealthy in real estate
  • The benefits of holding
  • What PPC means
  • What his preferred business model is if he’ll operate in a smaller market
  • Why he decided to keep the property
  • Why it pays to always assume motivation
  • Why it’s advisable to work with a local bank
  • What refi means
  • His advice to people who are starting out
  • Books he recommends
  • What the wealthiest people have in common

RESOURCES:

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Episode Transcription

Tom Krol:
Hey, guys. Welcome to another amazing episode of Wholesaling, Inc. I’m so excited to be with you here today. I’ve got a great guest, someone who has done 63 deals this year, is doing amazing, big, big deals consistently. We are going to put him in the hot seat, we are going to pick his brain, we’re going to figure out exactly how he is doing it so that you can have the same exact success, so that you can do it and get these kind of deals, too. So, I’m really excited about that.

Tom Krol:
If you don’t know what wholesaling is, wholesaling is simply the art of consistently finding discounted properties. It doesn’t matter what your exit strategy is, if you can get good at finding discounted properties, you can find financial freedom. So, our guest today is Jason Lewis. He is in Utah, and he is absolutely crushing it. We’re going to be doing a deal review of two of his deals that he’s done this year, which is going to be amazing, because you guys know me, right? We’re going to dive deep, we’re going to get right to the meat and potatoes to figure out what he’s doing, and exactly how he is doing it.

Tom Krol:
And he’s actually holding a lot of properties, too. He now has six doors that he’s holding for cashflow, and he’s cash-flowing around $10,000 a month, and I think that’s net. We’re going to find out more, but I am really excited about that because he is just exploding, and we’ve got to tie him down for a minute and find out how he’s doing so. Let’s get ready.

Tom Krol:
So, Jason, can you hear me?

Jason Lewis:
Yes, I can.

Tom Krol:
All right. Jason, it’s such an honor to have you on the show. You guys, Jason and I, we both were in CG together for a while, which is awesome. You’re a good friend, and I appreciate you taking the time from your day to do this podcast with us and share your information. I know you’re also a student of TTP, Brent Daniels’ products, so, very, very cool.

Jason Lewis:
Whoo!

Tom Krol:
Talk to people, I love it. And also of Todd Toback, of some of the stuff he’s done, and we’re going to be talking about that. So, Jason, we’re going to get into the meat and potatoes. Before we do, can you just give everyone a really quick summary about who you are, how you got started, but make it fast because we want to get right to how we’re going to be able to do the deals that you do. So, tell us, what do we need to know about you?

Jason Lewis:
Okay. So, I’m Jason, I’m in the Salt Lake City market, I also do some marketing for other people in other states, but we can go into that another time. I’ve been in it on my own for two years but been in the industry for seven, graduated college with a degree in radiation therapy, and realized that that was not for me. And so, started in this and, yeah, I wholesale, and flip, I keep a few rentals, and my main marketing channels that work well are mail, cold calling, relationships, online, and texting.

Tom Krol:
That is a lot, so let’s deep-dive it. Let’s go, here we go, all right. Number one, I know you are doing a lot of stuff and you’re doing it very successfully, obviously. You’ve got 63 deals this year, we’ve got two HUDs of two deals that we’re going to review, and I am really excited about that. So, let’s just go with the first deal, your pick; we’re going to start this episode by really deep-diving. You can choose which of the two you’d like to start with, but tell us a little bit about this first deal: how did you find this deal that we’re going to review right now?

Jason Lewis:
All right. This first deal I found by doing exactly what Brant says. Nothing creative, nothing special.

Tom Krol:
Okay.

Jason Lewis:
We drove for dollars, we found the house, we called the seller and then went out and met with them, and got the contract signed.

Tom Krol:
Okay, so, let’s break that down a little bit. Did you do the driving for dollars yourself?

Jason Lewis:
I didn’t. Nope. So, I did not do the driving or the appointment myself.

Tom Krol:
Okay, so, let’s talk about that. Who is doing your driving for dollars for you?

Jason Lewis:
I have a couple of local people doing driving for dollars. I find good luck with high school students.

Tom Krol:
Okay.

Jason Lewis:
And early college students.

Tom Krol:
This is great! I want to know everything about that, Jason, because I know there are busy people listening who do not have the time to go driving for dollars, especially if they live in big counties and they can’t do it, they have full-time jobs. Tell me, how do you do that, how much are you paying them, how do you compensate them, what does that look like? Do you have to worry about insurance for their car while they’re driving? Do they use any tools like Deal Machine while they’re doing it? Can you kind of give me some of the details about how these guys and girls are finding your deals by driving for dollars for you?

Jason Lewis:
Yeah, [inaudible 00:05:10], and fantastic questions. While, yes, I’m definitely no Zack Boothe, I definitely love driving for dollars, and I’ve helped some of my friends in their other markets with driving for dollars, too. And the one other thing I wanted to add with finding them is, I’ve just posted ads for them, and in a lot of other markets, my very favorite best driving for dollars people…

Jason Lewis:
And we’ll hire somebody full-time, 40 hours a week, to just go and drive for dollars for us, and the people that consistently work out the best are Uber or Lyft drivers that realize they don’t like people.

Tom Krol:
Okay.

Jason Lewis:
As crazy as that sounds. So, they love driving, they’re in the experience of driving around all day, but if you’re an Uber or a Lyft driver, to get tipped well, you have to make conversation, and be friendly, and everything else. So, I just, like anything, it’s marketing, posting ads and things like that, bring a bunch of people in, and then that’s kind of my target favorite person, is someone that has done Uber or Lyft that isn’t super social.

Tom Krol:
Okay. So, first of all, where do you post these ads?

Jason Lewis:
Craigslist and all local hiring sites. So, in Utah, we have a local hiring site that a lot of people use called KSL, but whatever your local hiring sites are, that’s exactly what I would use.

Tom Krol:
Can you send me a screenshot or an example of an ad, so I can put it into the show notes for everybody?

Jason Lewis:
Use that. We’ve got a great ad. Matt on my team produced a fantastic ad that I’d be happy to share.

Tom Krol:
Whoo! All right, we’re getting into the good stuff. All right, now, how do you compensate these people?

Jason Lewis:
It varies per area. How I come up with compensation is I kind of look at what DoorDash Uber Eats and people like that are paying, and I wind up in that range. So, for example, in Idaho and Utah, I’m as inexpensive as 10 to $12 an hour, versus in Bay Area, I would be 18 to $20 an hour there. But somewhere between 10 and 20 is where you fall in.

Jason Lewis:
I’ve done it both ways, where I will let reimburse them for their miles…

Tom Krol:
Okay, and I guess you don’t pay them per lead or per the compensation on the deal, or anything like that.

Jason Lewis:
I do not. I am just hourly.

Tom Krol:
You also mentioned Zack Boothe when you… you kind of just said that quickly. Did you take Zack’s course about how to drive for dollars in a scalable way?

Jason Lewis:
I did not. Zack and I started about the… we’re kind of learning driving for dollars at about the same time. That said, I’ve talked to people that have, and I have heard that his course is absolutely fantastic, and I would highly suggest it.

Tom Krol:
I have done the same, and I feel the same way. I will put a link to Zack Boothe’s course in the show notes. Guys, what he does is, if you’re not going to be driving for dollars yourself, just using Deal Machine or another tool, he actually will go in and show you how to build a team around driving for dollars, and just generate a ton of apps either locally or virtually, which is really, really cool and could be a massive channel. That’s Zack Boothe, B-O-O-T-H-E, and if you are interested in Deal Machine, use the code “rhino”, R-H-I-N-O, “rhino”, and you’ll get Deal Machine for the cheapest price on the planet.

Jason Lewis:
I use Deal Machine, David Lecko is a good friend, I highly suggest him.

Tom Krol:
I absolutely agree, David Lecko is a good friend and a good guy, and a good person, and he’s got a great application there. Also, okay, so…

Jason Lewis:
Yeah. The technology behind it is fantastic.

Tom Krol:
Oh, the best, yeah, very easy to use. Okay, so, now we know how you found the deal. You said you then went and met with the seller; tell us a little bit more about that. How did you meet with the seller? Did you skip-trace him and call him on the phone, or just send him direct mail, or, what did that look like?

Jason Lewis:
So, skip-traced them and then I had one of my cold callers call him on the phone, and then my acquisition manager went and got the home under contract.

Tom Krol:
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. I love it. Okay, so, you put it under contract, and… Now, on this particular one, did you guys actually purchase this home and then re-sold it?

Jason Lewis:
Correct. Yeah. So, this was a seller… In Utah, assignments can get a little bit sticky, but even before that… My feeling is in wholesale properties, we’re here to provide a service, and our service is, people are choosing to trade equity for convenient. And so, this was a case where the seller wanted time after to stay in the property, to be able to move at their own pace, and not have to stress about it.

Jason Lewis:
And so, I’m different than others in this, but I believe that it’s my responsibility to make sure that that convenience is seen through for them. And so, whenever I have these situations, especially on big spreads, I will buy them, let them get out, and then I’ll send it to my list.

Tom Krol:
I think it’s really important, what you just said. I always describe it as a pawn shop that sellers are looking to exchange speed and convenience for a low price; you said essentially the same thing. I think that’s really important, guys, to keep this in perspective because wholesaling is a service. So, don’t be afraid of losing the deal, always be brutally honest with the seller, always be leaving, right? ABL from [inaudible 00:09:56] from Flip the Script book, one of the best books ever written.

Tom Krol:
So, yeah, absolutely, I totally agree. So, you buy the home… A lot of people listening, they’re going to say, “Yeah, but Jason, I don’t have money to buy a home, especially in Salt Lake City where homes are expensive.” It’s kind of more like an LA, San Diego. Not quite, but they’re not cheap. “How did you get the money for the home, or did you buy it with your own cash, or do you use a money lender, or what does that look like?”

Jason Lewis:
In this case, I used a private money lender. It was a friend that had extra money, but I have used hard money lenders, I’ve used private money lenders, and then part of it was my own cash. I choose to have lower leverage and lower cost capital, but I know of lenders out there that will go all the way up to nothing down.

Tom Krol:
Yeah, I agree, and I just want to… You tell me, Jason, if you agree with this. When you think of, like, “Hey, I don’t have the money, and who the heck is going to lend it to me?”, once you go and look for the money, it is readily available. Would you not agree that getting money for deals is very simple?

Jason Lewis:
Yes. 100%. I’ve found at different times in the market, different parts of this whole process are hard, right?

Tom Krol:
Right.

Jason Lewis:
And right now, finding money is not one of the hard parts. In 2009 and ’10, finding money was a challenge. That was one of the big things that was preventing investors first from being successful. But in 2019, my opinion is finding money is very easy. Construction labor is the harder thing to find now.

Tom Krol:
I am lucky I never have to deal with that, because I have no interest in real estate. I only like what it could do for me, but I have no interest in it.

Tom Krol:
So, very cool. And guys, one thing that we use in the tribe is… our contact is Matt Bell. I’ll put his information. If you need money for a deal, if you need proof of funds, if you need transactional lending, he is phenomenal, he is nationwide, he’s super cheap, and he lends not on you but on the deal, which is really great because if the deal is a stinker, he won’t give you money. So, that’s kind of a way to just secretly have somebody else vet your deals, which is a whole nother topic, a whole nother podcast.

Tom Krol:
Okay, so, here’s my number one question…

Jason Lewis:
I love Matt Bell. He’s my friend, as well.

Tom Krol:
Oh, yeah. Matt Bell…

Jason Lewis:
Matt Bell’s great. I would add my strong endorsement to Matt Bell.

Tom Krol:
You guys, there you go. And this is somebody… I’m in Florida, Jason is in Utah, we both know Matt Bell. He is one of the best for wholesalers, especially that proof of funds transactional lending, and vetting the deal. Those three aspects alone are absolutely invaluable.

Tom Krol:
Here’s what we would say, too, or what I want to do now is just get a little bit better idea. You bought the home; did you put it on MLS?

Jason Lewis:
No. One thing that I do like better about buying a home and then marketing it after, is I can do a much more robust version of marketing. So, putting it on the MLS is an option. That said, I have a big enough cash buyers’ list, and I’ve gotten good enough at wholesaling, that I can typically do as well or better without putting them on the MLS. But if I were brand new and small, and had a smaller cash buyers’ list, like a lot of our listeners, and I was buying it anyways, I would definitely look at putting it on the MLS.

Tom Krol:
Got it. Okay, so, I love this deal: you buy it, you sell it. How much did you make on it?

Jason Lewis:
I made about 58,000.

Tom Krol:
Whoo! 58? I’m ringing the victory bell for that one, guys. Whoo! You guys, that is phenomenal. Jason, $58,000… I know you do a lot of deals. If you’re listening, wholesaling is hard, it probably won’t work for you, it’s going to take a lot of grit, it’s going to take a ton of work, it’s going to take a ton of focus and sacrifice and money, and effort and energy, but I’ll tell you, it is worth it.

Tom Krol:
It’s worth trying because that is a life-changing amount of money that I hope… I know you don’t ever take that for granted, but that is just an absolute amazing amount of money.

Jason Lewis:
No, for sure.

Tom Krol:
$58,000 on one deal. How long, just out of curiosity, did that deal… And by the way, guys, we have the HUD, so this is not just some guy who’s calling in who we don’t know. Not only do I know Jason, but we actually have a copy of that HUD, and we vetted that deal, and that is an amazing, amazing amount of money. How long from start to finish, from the time that deal got into your pipeline to the time you collected that check, what was the overall turnaround time on that? Because I know the homeowner had to stay for a while, right?

Jason Lewis:
Yeah. It was about five weeks.

Tom Krol:
Five weeks, 58,000, where’s my calculator? I mean, I just want to do this just for anyone who’s driving right now who has a weekly income. That’s 58,000 divided by five weeks, that’s $11,600 a week. Now, you have marketing expenses, obviously, you have to pay. I’m sure the acquisition manager, you have to keep the office lights on, you have to pay for your drivers, but that is really… that’s amazing. I mean, that’s a great amount of money to gross on one deal, life-changing.

Tom Krol:
Okay, now I want to talk about a deal that you actually decided to keep and not sell. I know you’ve kind of told me you have about six stores right now of just complete rock-star properties, is that right?

Jason Lewis:
Yep, and that’s one of the beautiful parts of wholesaling, kind of exactly how you’ve taught it from the start, which is when you’re wholesaling, not only are you creating an incredible business and providing a great service to people, you also are creating a funnel of fantastic properties that, if you like, you can choose to cherry-pick.

Jason Lewis:
So, that’s exactly what I do. I cherry-pick my favorite flips, and my favorite few rentals, of all of those properties to be able to keep and work with each year.

Tom Krol:
I want to just…

Jason Lewis:
So, this was one that I chose to cherry-pick as a rental.

Tom Krol:
Yeah, and I want to double down on that, guys, because that is truly the power of wholesaling, is cherry-picking these sweetheart deals that you get to keep in your rental portfolio, and one thing that I’ve learned from Robert Kiyosaki is, those are little, tiny seeds. It’s kind of like a garden, and… what, for instance, Julie and I are doing right this moment as we speak, we are literally taking on of our small rentals that we bought many years ago, and we were able to purchase that property from our wholesale pipeline, which was a great property…

Tom Krol:
I won’t mark these numbers exactly, but I believe we paid $21,000 for the property; we sold it for… We bought it for 21,000. We put about $4,000 into it to get it rent-ready, and we then are now selling that property for, I believe, $98,000, and we’re 10-31 exchanging. If you don’t know what that means, don’t even worry about it. I let all the lawyers and all the title companies take care of it, but what that basically means is, when the property sells, I don’t touch the money, I don’t pay tax on the money.

Tom Krol:
So, it’s just a pure $98,000 and the house was free and clear, so there’s no money that comes out, and now what we’re doing is growing our portfolio in another state, North Carolina, where we visit a lot, and we are growing our rental portfolio in that state and we’re buying another property, a bigger, better, three-bedroom, two-bathroom home that is much more expensive, will rent for more money.

Tom Krol:
So, these are like little seeds. It’s not just that you can acquire these properties, but then you have these little, tiny… It’s like a garden that just keeps growing. It’s amazing, and you can do that by starting with wholesaling, is a great way. Every great deal, whether you’re Donald Trump, Robert Kiyosaki, or… I don’t know. Who was the guy in the ’80s on television, who used to talk about No Money Down, right?

Tom Krol:
The whole key to all of this is no matter who you are, wholesaling, finding a deeply discounted property is the best way to start, no matter what kind of deal. Even if it’s land or mobile home parks, or whatever, even a commercial apartment building. Anyway, I just wanted to double down on that, Jason, because it’s so important.

Jason Lewis:
I agree.

Tom Krol:
You have six deals that you’re keeping. Phenomenal. I love it. How much are you actually netting in your pocket per month? I think you said around 10,000; is that right?

Jason Lewis:
Correct.

Tom Krol:
Yeah, that’s insane, guys, that’s $120,000 in his pocket. So, then you get that, and then you have to pay taxes on that profit?

Jason Lewis:
Yes, but a lot of that profit and those taxes are compensated for in what’s called depreciation.

Tom Krol:
Got it.

Jason Lewis:
Which, again, talk to a tax person to get into this specifics of, but that is… I do the wholesale aspect and the real estate aspect, and the thing I like about the real estate aspect is it helps me out a lot with the taxes. Where, with just wholesaling, there’s definitely… where it’s more transactional, the amount of taxes can be higher.

Tom Krol:
And I will tell you that Julie and I are big spenders, we have five children, and we like to go out and do really nice things…

Jason Lewis:
I also have five children.

Tom Krol:
There you go! I didn’t know. Well, there you go. Do all of yours start with the letter L, like Logan, Lacey, Lily, Lucas, and Levi?

Jason Lewis:
Nope.

Tom Krol:
Well, there you go. Well, congratulations on five, but the thing is is that what I love about the real estate, is not only are there so many tax benefits of buying and holding these properties, but there’s also, it locks your money up. So, if you like to go out to nice restaurants and you like to spend money, and you like to do nice things, what is really good about real estate is you can buy these properties, if you do well enough wholesaling and you make enough cash, you can buy these properties low, you can put a lot down or buy them free and clear for all cash, and then the money is locked up and it’s put away and it’s gaining equity, and it’s great.

Tom Krol:
It’s a great way to do it. It locks the money up, it keeps it from your hands, and for me, sometimes holding money could be like holding water. So, it’s a good thing for Julie and I to keep it… yeah, locked up.

Jason Lewis:
I love it.

Tom Krol:
We love it. It’s great all the way around.

Jason Lewis:
One thing I would highly suggest is Robert Kiyosaki’s game that you can play online, Cash Flow. It teaches great principles in this regard. I think you and I have in common that we like a little bit lower leverage than maybe… a lot of people will choose to play the Cash Flow game with higher leverage.

Tom Krol:
Right.

Jason Lewis:
But the principles behind the game Cash Flow are still fantastic, and still had a huge part into my starting and getting into this, and it teaches a lot of the principles of real estate investing, and getting out of the rat race.

Tom Krol:
I love it, and my daughter, my 11-year-old who was 10 when she started playing, is now 11, Lacey, she loves it. It’s a great game, Cash Flow. It’s a great board game, too. It sounds like you could play it online. And I agree, I don’t really like a lot of debt, so I try to keep my profile as low, as low, as low as possible.

Tom Krol:
But buying these things and holding them, the one thing I will tell you, Jason and I are both in a Mastermind together, and I am in multiple other Masterminds, and I know Jason is, as well, and I will tell you this: the one constant, the one thing that I can share that I have learned of a general principle of everything that I have learned from all of these men and women from all different walks of life, who’ve all been in the game for a longer time or a shorter time, the one constant that I can tell you is you make your money in real estate when you hold.

Tom Krol:
Not when you buy, not when you sell, it’s when you hold. All of the men and women who have come before us who have really just gone to the moon and further, they held their real estate. As a matter of fact, and I know we’re going off-script here, but somebody I know very well, you and I both know, he once told me… this is a very wealthy individual, his name is Michael Jake, he actually once…

Jason Lewis:
Yeah.

Tom Krol:
Yeah. So, he told my brother, Todd Toback, actually, so I heard this secondhand, which is… He’s actually, in some instances, paid almost retail for some of his properties, the retail price, but because he bought and he held, he made a fortune. So, he’s done very, very well, and he’s been the personal coach to Brent Daniels, and every conversation I’ve had with him, which have just been a few, he’s a rock star, into cars, he’s got the lifestyle everybody wants and he knows what he’s doing.

Tom Krol:
But, yeah. One thing I could share on this episode is, if you want to know the secret to becoming wealthy in real estate, you make money in real estate when you hold. So, anyway, yeah, I shouldn’t be doing all the talking. You’re the guest, so go ahead.

Jason Lewis:
Yeah, I love it. You’re full of wisdom. One book that I feel like breaks that down incredibly well, we all know Gary Keller for The ONE Thing, he wrote another book called The Millionaire Real Estate Investor.

Tom Krol:
Yep. I have it right on my shelf, right behind me. I love it.

Jason Lewis:
Yeah. And he breaks down the power of holding, and even all of the terms, that he uses a bunch of examples of homes that you can buy, and what happens as you hold onto them over time. And I mean, in his examples, he’s paying 80% of retail and refinancing it seven or eight percent. He’s not doing it with fantastic terms. If you have a wholesaling machine, you can do significantly better terms than him, but in that book, he does a great job at laying out the potential of holding, for sure.

Tom Krol:
I love it. Holding is where it’s at. It’s a little, tiny… yeah, garden, and I could go into that topic for hours. So, let’s not do that. Let’s get back on track. This second deal that we’re going to discuss, and by the way, I can hear my little Levi is awake and he’s knocking on my office door, so I apologize for the background noise…

Jason Lewis:
I’m hiding out in my car just because we’re on our break, my kids were making a bunch of noise, too. That’s another thing you and I share in common: we do all this from our homes, and I wouldn’t change it any other way.

Tom Krol:
Oh, yeah.

Jason Lewis:
I have an office that I’ll let other people in my stuff go to; I don’t. I love working from home.

Tom Krol:
Brother, I am with you 1,000%. People are like, “I’ll come to your office.” I’m like, “Eh, let’s go to First Watch and have breakfast. 10 o’clock sounds good to me.”

Jason Lewis:
Yeah.

Tom Krol:
All right, so, the second deal, number one is you ended up keeping it. Tell us about the deal. I want to know, how did you find it? That’s first and foremost.

Jason Lewis:
Okay, yep. This was a pay-per-click lead.

Tom Krol:
Okay, pay-per-click, PPC. Do you use a service for PPC?

Jason Lewis:
I do. I actually have a virtual assistant in India run my pay-per-click.

Tom Krol:
Got it, okay.

Jason Lewis:
And I found the virtual assistant through a website called Upwork. That’s one thing about me; I love virtual assistants. I have a pretty good-sized team of virtual assistants, and you talk about… Bill Gates says that he was accused of, for every problem in the world, trying to solve it with technology. I try to solve every problem in the world with a VA.

Tom Krol:
We are more similar than I can… Firstly, long-time listeners to the show, you guys all know Lorena. She will be at the next summit, October 2020 in Orlando. We’re going to fly her down, her and her family, again for another one in the Philippines. She was my first hire. Second person in the company, my first hire, and she’s been with me ever since, and every time I have a problem, I’m like, “Lorena, can you get me a VA to make this graph? Could you get me a VA to do this transcription of the podcast?” She’s great. So, I agree.

Jason Lewis:
Yep.

Tom Krol:
I will say, my PPC guy is Tim. If you guys are interested in PPC, I’ll put a link to Tim’s site. There is a waiting list. He does my own personal PPC, he’s a total rock star, so I will put a link in the show notes for Tim if anyone’s interested. There’s a waiting list for him, but it’s worth it to get on the waiting list because I think Tim is the best, and what I like about him is he’s super, super, super affordable, probably like your VA.

Tom Krol:
So, this came through PPC. PPC means when you go to a Google search, like, “I want to sell my house,” there’s an ad that pops up on the page that says, “Hey, I buy houses. Click here.” Right? That’s what we’re talking about?

Jason Lewis:
Yep.

Tom Krol:
Okay.

Jason Lewis:
And actually, maybe let me add on PPC for just one second. People have asked me before, “Hey, if you had it all to do over again, and you were starting from scratch, what would you do different?”

Tom Krol:
Right.

Jason Lewis:
And so, my answer back initially is, “Well, that depends entirely on where I am,” et cetera, but if I were in a smaller market, a market under a million, 1.5 million, that wasn’t too crazy competitive, my entire first business model would be pay-per-click, be perfect on answering the phone, answer it yourself, go to the appointment, and close that seller.

Jason Lewis:
PPC generates by far the least amount of noise, it generates a fantastic return, I love pay-per-click, and if I was in a smaller market like that, that would be where I would start if I had it to do all over again.

Tom Krol:
You know, what I like about PPC is that it’s the conversion rate, so it’s kind of like our Facebook ads…

Jason Lewis:
Yep.

Tom Krol:
When they call, they are smoking-hot leads and they are ready to close. The thing about them, and you already highlighted it and I totally agree, Jason, is response rate. You absolutely must either have that phone ring directly to your cell phone, or you have to call them back immediately because the seller is actively looking to sell their home, and if you don’t pick up, they will go to the next ad in three seconds.

Jason Lewis:
Yep. And your competition’s a half an inch away, with pay-per-click.

Tom Krol:
Literally, you’re right, I have this on my monitor; I love it.

Jason Lewis:
So, I love it because it’s much less noise. I love direct mail, I love cold-calling, but the amount of work and effort and energy that goes into generating a lead is a lot higher than pay-per-click, but you have to make sure that your net is ready if you’re doing pay-per-click. Walk out of a movie, walk out of dinner, that phone call gets answered no matter what.

Tom Krol:
I love it. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy, okay. So, you do the PPC, you get in front of the seller or your acquisition manager does; what I really want to get into with this deal is, why did you decide to keep it? And I think one of the things I’d like to touch on in that is, why was the seller selling? Because typically, the deals that I keep are nicer homes in nicer areas. Is that true with this home?

Jason Lewis:
Yep.

Tom Krol:
Yeah.

Jason Lewis:
You and I share that in common, as well.

Tom Krol:
Okay.

Jason Lewis:
By the way, you have been a huge influencer of my real estate career. When i was early and young, I listened to every podcast, every everything. So, I think the reason why you and I have so much in common is because I’ve never been one for getting creative; I pick a mentor, I find somebody that’s like, “Hey, I want to do what they’re doing,” and I do exactly what they say and what they do to get the same results.

Jason Lewis:
They call it the franchise model, right? The best people to run McDonald’s are farmers, not MBA guys, because they just work the model. So, I’ve kind of always been that guy, so I think that’s the reason why we’re super similar, is because I listened to all of your stuff and I just did it, and didn’t ask questions.

Tom Krol:
Bam!

Jason Lewis:
If that makes sense.

Tom Krol:
Bam! Jason, I am honored and humbled. Thank you. I’m honored to just have even been a small part of your journey, so thank you for saying that. That’s really sweet of you, but very cool. Man, you’re a rock star. So, yeah, how did you decide…

Jason Lewis:
Getting back into… okay. So, first off, I’ll talk about the seller and their situation, and the home, and then I’ll tell you why I decided.

Jason Lewis:
So, this was a home in a much nicer neighborhood. Every other home on the street was perfect, well-kept, manicured. It was built in 1997, about 3,000 square feet, and this was the one massive eyesore in the neighborhood. This poor, sweet seller went through a divorce about seven years beforehand, and it just ruined her. Her and her son lived there and she went into a deep state of depression and just couldn’t break out of it. And I mean, to the tune of I think two years before I bought it, was the last time they took the garbage out.

Jason Lewis:
They never came out, the dogs did everything inside the house, and this is… again, this is up on the hill, nice neighborhood. Yard’s dead. You could literally see the stars from inside the house. So, it would rain into the house onto tarps, and then they would tarp it out the back of the house.

Tom Krol:
Got it.

Jason Lewis:
It was so sad. And so, she finally was at a point where she had had a friend who said, “Hey, come and move in with me, and let’s get it figured out,” and so she was finally ready to sell, and that was why she did it.

Jason Lewis:
I actually had to buy the house completely blind because she was so embarrassed by the state that it was in, she said, “Hey, you can buy it, but just so you know, you can’t see it.” And so, I told her, “Okay, just so you know, I have a check list of everything that could be wrong with a house, and I’m going to check all the boxes because I haven’t seen it, and make an offer accordingly.”

Jason Lewis:
And she said, “That’s fine, I don’t care. I just don’t want you to see it.” So, that was what I did.

Tom Krol:
You know, if you’re just listening now and you are getting started in wholesaling, and you’re kind of like, “Hey, why would sellers exchange a low price in exchange for convenience and in exchange for speed?”, listen to what Jason’s saying, because these are the people who are out there in the community… Look, guys, most people don’t want to sell their home. Most homeowners don’t want to sell their home, and the homeowners who do don’t want your low price.

Tom Krol:
But there are people out there who have a problem, they want to deal with one person, they don’t want to do showings, they don’t want to deal with multiple people coming through; these are the sellers that you can really help with this model. So, it’s interesting to hear this, because this is a very common tale that you hear from wholesalers who are dealing with homeowners who are introverted, they’ve made a series of bad decisions for a long time, or they haven’t dealt with a problem that started as a small problem, probably a little drip in the roof that is now a gaping hole, and this is what we’re dealing with this as wholesalers.

Tom Krol:
So, very, very typical, and… go ahead. I won’t interrupt you.

Jason Lewis:
Yeah. And kind of on that note, realize that… don’t pigeonhole who you think would choose our option. I have purchased, recently, homes from accountants, attorneys, Fortune 500 CEOs, grandmas, divorced ladies, everywhere. Because in the end, and everybody has…

Jason Lewis:
Other realtors, other real estate investors. People all have their own reasons for why they are choosing convenience over price, and as you say all the time, always assume motivation, and don’t assume that just because you’re talking to a guy who’s a attorney, or who’s a realtor, who would have other options available to them, doesn’t mean that they’re not willing to take our option, because for them the convenience is worth it.

Tom Krol:
You obviously listen to the podcast. Guys, assume motivation. Anyone who calls you or reaches out on a 30-cents postcard, they are motivated until proven otherwise. Don’t wait for the sellers to convince you that they are motivated to sell quickly at a low price. Assume that they are, and be proven wrong. That is the way to do it. I love it! Very great reminders, Jason, thank you. Very cool.

Jason Lewis:
So, we purchased the home, we bought it for 187,000, and then we let them stay for a couple of months after that, because they didn’t want us to see the home until they had gotten a lot of their stuff out and gotten it cleaned up to a point. I think we still-

Tom Krol:
I just want to say, this is something that gives us a huge advantage. This is happening, and this is a guess, but I would say in about 20 to 25% of our homes, the homeowner, after we buy the home, is staying in the home, and they have some cash. So, we hold a little bit of cash back with the title company in escrow, but this is a major advantage that we offer the marketplace, is that we can allow the homeowners to stay in the property after the closing.

Tom Krol:
And get with your real estate attorney, make sure that you have the right insurances in place, and the right legal paperwork to make sure that they can’t just stay indefinitely, and it’s just be a short-term, two weeks, three months, something like that. It shouldn’t be a year long, but really, really interesting, I just wanted to point that out, that’s a major benefit that wholesalers have in the marketplace.

Jason Lewis:
I agree. So, yeah, after we purchased it, I let them stay there for a while. Even after they got their stuff out, it wound up being, I think, four 30-yard dumpsters of additional materials to be taken out. It wound up being about a $45,000 rehab…

Tom Krol:
Got it.

Jason Lewis:
And then it came time to list it for sale, and I walked through it, and I was like, “I can’t sell this house.” It’s pretty close to me, I was pretty involved in the remodel process, it was a big remodel, I really liked this seller, and I just had gotten pretty emotionally connected to this property. And it’s an overall really good, good asset, good property.

Jason Lewis:
Another thing for me is they have plans to extend a ski resort to be about a couple streets away from this house, bring a gondola down to a couple streets away from this house in the next couple of years. And so, I decided, “You know what? I’m going to make this into an AirBnB, and it should do well for the next couple of years,” and at the point that that gondola comes in, this could be one of those home runs.

Tom Krol:
I’m glad you brought that up, because I know of your six stores, you said you’re making 10K a month, that sounds a little high to me, right? So, I’m like, “Oh, man. That is amazing,” but one of the reasons, you just stated, is because you’re actually doing AirBnB on half of them, on three of them. Is that right?

Jason Lewis:
Yep, and that’s where the vast majority of the money is coming in, is the three AirBnBs.

Tom Krol:
Absolutely. I have no doubt about that. Very, very cool. Okay, so, you decided to keep the property. I have one question for you about this property before we let it go, because everyone listening is probably thinking this: where the heck did you get the $187,000 to buy the property, and the $45,000 to rehab it? Is that your own personal money?

Jason Lewis:
Same thing, I used a private money lender, and then I used my own cash for the rehabs and part of the down. Because again, I have the cash, and I prefer the low-leverage, low interest rate option. There were options available that would do all of the purchase price, and all of the rehabs, or I know there’s a lot of national lenders that will have you put 10% down and then they will fund the rest of the purchase price, and all of the rehabs and [inaudible 00:34:43], but me personally, I chose to fund the rehabs on my own, and do part of the purchase price.

Tom Krol:
Let me ask you this question: what is the home worth today, and what do you owe on the home?

Jason Lewis:
Great question. Okay, so, it came time to refinance it, and so, this is something that I would highly suggest to everybody here.

Jason Lewis:
A lot of your local banks and local credit unions have the ability to keep loans on their books. So, there’s two different things that will happen with loans. One, they’ll be sold on the secondary market, or two, the bank will keep them. The vast, vast, vast majority of loans are sold on the secondary market. And these are homes that are ensured by Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, HUD, things like that.

Jason Lewis:
So, if you can get relationships with your local credit unions and local banks, you can do some pretty cool things with financing. This is what I did on this house. I had a local credit union who I did a re-fi with, so we had it appraised. It appraised at 370. So, I purchased it for 187, and it appraised for 370.

Tom Krol:
That’s amazing. And basically, when you say re-fi, I just want to go into that a little bit. Another friend, Mark from CG, he taught me this. He said, “Go to a local bank,” which I did, I got to talk directly to the president of the bank, which I didn’t even know was possible. Because all this bank stuff is very, very complicated to me. I don’t really understand it, I don’t know how it works, but he told me, he said, “Tom, go to your local bank, do not go to a big-name bank,” because that was the first mistake I made.

Jason Lewis:
Correct.

Tom Krol:
Right. So, I went there, I met with the president, and he said, “I want you to use this term. Tell them that you’re very fee-sensitive.” So, I told him that, he gave me a great… at that time, it was actually [inaudible 00:36:27] that I used on my personal primary home to buy a piece of real estate, that I kept, or… I think I kept it on that one, I don’t remember, but I just want you guys to know that Jason used the term re-fi, it just basically means that he had borrowed money to buy this home and rehab it, and then he just went to a bank and essentially said, “I want to get a loan.”

Tom Krol:
And I’m assuming that what you did is you paid yourself back the 45,000, and you paid the lender back, and then you kept the re-fi against the property, kind of like a mortgage, and now you’re netting money from what you owe the bank to what the renter is paying, or the AirBnB person is paying.

Jason Lewis:
Yep, that’s exactly it.

Tom Krol:
Okay.

Jason Lewis:
So, because it appraised for so high, I chose the 75% option, which had me at basically one origination point, and then my interest rate on this, and this was fantastic: 3.625%.

Tom Krol:
Okay, so, this is a little bit over my head, so I just want to break this down. And just quickly, what we want to do is we want to say… Okay, so, you borrowed some money to buy the home, and you used some money to rehab it, and then you went to the bank, and they gave you 75% of what the home appraised for, which was 300-and-something thousand, so they gave you 75% of that money.

Jason Lewis:
Yep, 370.

Tom Krol:
Okay, and so, they gave you 75% of 370.

Jason Lewis:
Oh, sorry. Yeah, which wound up being 277, basically.

Tom Krol:
Okay, so, you got a loan for 277, which means that you paid back all the money you owed, and then, did you keep the rest of the cash, or what did you do with that? Because it sounds like that would be more than what you put into it.

Jason Lewis:
Yeah, so, I did wind up walking with about roughly 20,000 after all of my expenses and everything else.

Tom Krol:
Let me get this straight. You put 20K in your pocket, you cashflow on the property, and you… That’s incredible. You guys, this is the power of real estate.

Jason Lewis:
Yeah, and that only comes because of wholesaling. You don’t get to do that when you’re looking on the MLS and just finding a house like that. That’s a privilege that was granted because of wholesaling.

Tom Krol:
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Wholesaling is the best, it is difficult and it is hard work, and it is worth it. Very, very cool.

Jason Lewis:
One other thing I want to mention on that specific loan. Because the bank chooses to keep it on their sheets, it doesn’t report… Most people are limited to 10 rental loans, right?

Tom Krol:
Okay…

Jason Lewis:
So, on your credit, you’re only allowed to have 10 rental loans. When you work with these local banks and credit unions, some of them, including this one, will have products that don’t count as one of your 10, and doesn’t show up on your credit, and so it doesn’t effect your debt-to-income ratio, and isn’t counting up towards your 10.

Tom Krol:
I love it. Good to know. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. All right, so, I want to ask you one last question, which is this: people who are just getting started, and I know you’re a rhino, and all of that, but outside of getting training from us, is there anything that you have done in your life when you were starting that you would say, “Tom, if I’m talking to a new real estate investor now, or somebody who wants to get started,” what are, just quickly, one or two or three things… a book, a resource, something that you did, that would really help them kind of take some massive and perfect action and get the ball rolling?

Jason Lewis:
Yeah. Read books, is definitely number one, and this is-

Tom Krol:
Absolutely.

Jason Lewis:
Helping you do a great job at teaching. Some of the initial books that had the biggest impact on me… Well, actually, I won’t say “some of the initial books”. After having read all the books I’ve read, some of the ones that I would consider to be the most important…

Jason Lewis:
I realized early, read books to build skills, more than… If you’re reading books to build skills, it’s different than reading books for the sake of reading books.

Tom Krol:
Correct.

Jason Lewis:
And so, early on, I figured out, “Okay, well, what are the skills that I need in order to be who I want to be?” And I came down to, “If I can get perfect at setting goals, habits, and hiring, then those are the three skills that would help me the most.”

Jason Lewis:
For goals, my absolute favorite book is Living Your Best Year Ever by Darren Hardy. It’s a workbook, and it shows you everything you need to do to set your goals there. For habits, definitely the best one is Atomic Habits…

Tom Krol:
Absolutely! Yep.

Jason Lewis:
By James Clear. And then, for hiring, my favorite one was Who: The A Method of Hiring.

Tom Krol:
Oh, okay, Who: The A Method?

Jason Lewis:
Yep. Who: The A Method of Hiring. It’s written by… it’s a family. It’s the son of the guy that did Top Grading. So, this family’s whole life multi-generation has been nothing but helping big companies hire. And so, basically, they have a very systematized, franchised-out, “This is exactly what you need to do to hire effectively.” Because I realized, I got into this from the start to build a company to where all of the pieces could happen without me having to do any of them.

Tom Krol:
Right.

Jason Lewis:
And so, I realized if I was going to do that, I needed to be able to… skilled, not just luck, bring the right people onto the team. And then, my favorite book for managing the team would be The Four Disciplines of Execution.

Tom Krol:
Yeah, that’s a great book. We met him, the author, you and I. Right, didn’t we? In CG, first?

Jason Lewis:
I joined the very next CG after that.

Tom Krol:
Yeah.

Jason Lewis:
I would have loved to have met him.

Tom Krol:
Chris, right, Something? Chris…

Jason Lewis:
McChesney.

Tom Krol:
McChesney, yeah. Great guy, sweetheart, and…

Jason Lewis:
In fact, that was my first presentation at CG, was on The Four Disciplines of Execution, and then when I was done, everyone was like, “You realize, the last meeting, we literally heard from the author?”

Jason Lewis:
And I was like, “Oh… That would have been good to know.”

Tom Krol:
That’s [inaudible 00:41:51], too. Well, you could get… Let me say this, guys. I totally agree with Jason. No joke. There is, when it comes to the one percent of the one percent, there are all different types of nationalities, and gender, and ages, and industries, and everything, but there is one common thread: they all read. Not some of them, all of them. 100% of the top one percent, the richest of the richest, the wealthiest of the wealthiest, they all read.

Tom Krol:
As Jason was talking about, his books, which we’re going to put in the show notes, I will link to all those books. I’m going to buy Who: The A Method right now as soon as we end this podcast, because I’ve never heard of that, it sounds great.

Tom Krol:
I have something called The Shelf, which, it always is with me. It’s my favorite books: Four Spiritual Laws of Prosperity, The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, The War of Art… Oh, man, game-changer. That was recommended to me by Robert Helms. Rhinoceros Success by Scott Alexander. The ONE Thing, we talked about that already, Jason, by Gary Keller. The Richest Men in Babylon, oh, classic!

Jason Lewis:
That book is what started me in real estate…

Tom Krol:
There you go.

Jason Lewis:
Because the principle behind The Richest Man in Babylon is, 10% of all you make is yours to keep, and then you need to make sure that you can take that 10% and grow it. And I realized… it was in college that I read the book, and it was like, “I only know how to trade for glass,” right? The idea of keeping 10% of all I made, and then just throwing it in the stock market and hoping it worked out, that was like…

Jason Lewis:
I literally made it my goal for life: “I am going to figure out how to get a good, solid, consistent return on my 10% of all I make that’s going to be mine to keep.” So, I agree 100% on Richest Man in Babylon. That was one of my early books.

Tom Krol:
I love it, and then the last three that are on my shelf, you already named one of them; I have The Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer, Atomic Habits, James Clear, and then Business Secrets from The Bible. That’s by Daniel Lapin. Every single book by Ryan Holiday and Daniel Lapin, you should read. If you’re a listener of this show, I would suggest that those books will change your life, but, yeah, and then Victor Frankel, Man’s Search for Meaning. Those are my top 10 or so that they’re right there on the main part of my shelf; I have a lot of great books, but…

Tom Krol:
I’m agreeing with you, man. Jason, I can tell you, reading will change your life, it creates your brain into one of your strongest muscles. It’s a game-changer.

Tom Krol:
So, I have got to go onboard a new Wholesaling, Inc. employee right now, so I’m really excited about that. Thank you for doing this show, Jason. It’s been an honor, and you are a wealth of information; can I have you back on the show?

Jason Lewis:
You bet.

Tom Krol:
All right, man.

Jason Lewis:
Thank you. It was a privilege.

Tom Krol:
I’m looking forward to it. It was worth it. It was worth all the internet problems that we had. You’re a rock star. Thanks again, brother.

Jason Lewis:
Yeah, thank you.

Tom Krol:
All right, enjoy the day, God bless, bye-bye.

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