Posted on: August 14, 2017

Steven Leigh has successfully closed a number of Wholesaling deals, and his only training so far has been listening to podcasts, networking with other people in real estate, and reading some of our favorite books (like The Four Spiritual Laws of Prosperity)! Wow!

During this conversation, Cody picks his brain to learn exactly what he did so that you can have Wholesaling success, too.


The First Deal

  • Steven sent his first mailing to a list of people sourced through ListSource. His list only included single-family homes that were non-owner occupied (absentee owners) where the owner had 40% or more equity in their property, and the property’s last sale date was at least 5 years ago.
  • He narrowed down his list further to people in two of the hottest zip codes, and he decided that by finding which ones had the most cash buyers or cash transactions.
  • Steven’s budget only allowed him to send 100 mailings, and he got his first deal from one of those 100 postcards! (That’s not typical, but it is awesome.)
  • The daughter of a property owner called back saying they weren’t interested in selling that property… but they were interested in selling several other properties. The owner used to manage several rental properties with her husband, but he passed away and she was unable and uninterested in continuing to manage the properties.
  • Steven spent most of the time he was communicating with the sellers building rapport, and comparatively little time negotiating the price. The time spent building rapport is HUGE. Relationships are the core of Wholesaling.
  • He put one of the properties under contract for $25k. Then he found an investor who wanted to buy in that area through a networking group online and assigned the contract for $28k.
  • After closing, Steven made an assignment fee of ~$3,000.


Value of Return Mail

  • Steven got another deal using a strategy that everyone should do, but few people do: by responding to return mail.
  • “If you’re not doing something with your return mail, you’re throwing money away and you’re wasting leads.”
  • Using BeenVerified, he found the Facebook profile for the person who sent the mail, who was the daughter of the property owner. Afterwards, he built rapport.
  • He ultimately made over $41,000 from that deal!






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Episode Transcription

Tom Krol: Hey everybody. Welcome to another exciting episode of Wholesaling Inc. This is the number one podcast on how to wholesale real estate. If you don’t know what wholesaling is, wholesaling is the art, the business of consistently finding discounted properties or “Wholesale priced homes” in your neighborhood and making a huge profit doing that. So today we have an amazing guest with us. Somebody who was able to do a whole bunch of deals just by listening to the podcast.
This person is not even a Tribe Member. They are a new wholesaler up in Ohio and they’ve made some money recently. So what I want to do is you guys know me, we’re going to put him in the hot seat. We are going to pick his brain and we’re going to get him to tell us exactly what he did so that you can do it and you can have the same success because that’s what this is all about. This podcast is not about gathering information. This podcast is about massive, imperfect action or of course, my favorite saying progress, not perfection. So, let’s get started. I got Steve Leigh on the line. Steve, can you hear me? Okay,

Steven Leigh: I can hear you Tom.

Tom Krol: All right Steve, it is such an honor to be interviewing you today about some of the resent success you had with wholesaling. So, I am really excited. Thank you for doing this. I’m honored to be on this side of the table and be able to pick your brain about this. You know, we’re going to put you in the hot seat, right?

Steven Leigh: Oh yes.

Tom Krol: Good, good, good. So, I hope you’re ready to be a go-giver and help other people have the same results that you did. So, you guys, let’s cut through all the fluff. Let’s get right to the meat and potatoes. Just a quick introduction. Steve, who are you, where do you come from? I know you’re up in Ohio, is that right? What city are you in?

Steven Leigh: Yeah, so I’m in Dayton, Ohio basically, kind of a suburb. And I got started about a year ago. Just started, I had kind of wanted to get into real estate investing like a couple times before and just never got the momentum going, just got into like the education thing instead of the action. And I just kind of waffled around, and then maybe about a year ago I just, I had a two year old daughter and just kind of sat there and went. I have never been good at money, I have never figured out this money thing. And I can’t keep screwing this up and not have opportunities for my daughter.

Tom Krol: Sure.

Steven Leigh: And I just got this real moment of clarity of this kind of like burn the boats behind me kind of moment. And I just went, one way or another I’m going to make this work. And I didn’t know exactly what model I wanted to use yet. So I was looking at buy and hold in a couple of different things. I actually stumbled on Clayton Morris’ podcast first-

Tom Krol: Oh, okay.

Steven Leigh: And then, he was talking about the Edwene Gaines Four Spiritual Laws book. I remember going why is… because I actually knew that book from my church, and just kind of like the prosperity thing. And I was like, why is this business real estate guy talking about this spiritual book? This is weird.

Tom Krol: I love it. I’m happy to say that Clayton Morris is now my best bud in the whole world. We talk to each other multiple times, every single day throughout the whole day. And he is a phenomenal, good-hearted individual. If you guys don’t know his company or what he does, I would check out he’s phenomenal. He’s a good friend, he started as a student, I’m happy to say I’m actually the one who recommended Edwene Gaines, who is now also a good friend and somebody I can speak with and she’s phenomenal.
That book was recommended to me at a Sean Terry conference in February of 2013 or 14, I don’t remember now. When I first got started in wholesaling, I was told to read that book by three different people. It’s called The Four Spiritual Laws of Prosperity. It is the number one book for investing in real estate, even though it has nothing to do with real estate. And one thing I always say is that if you do everything that I tell you to do with wholesaling, I can’t guarantee your results, but if you read this book, I can guarantee your results and I’ll tell you why, because it is a Bible-based not to get religious, but I will tell you that it works absolutely, it works absolutely.
I will tell you, it works absolutely in all of, if you took our top 100 Tribe Members, the rhinos who are killing it, they’re making 2040, 60, 80 even over $100,000 a month. And you ask them about this book, they will tell you the book works absolutely. So, I’m glad to know that you read it. Some people always ask me, what are the Four Spiritual Laws? I tell them, read the book. That’s the key. I’m not going to tell you what they are. So, that is awesome, and I’m glad to hear about that book. So you read the book you went through and what do you, what did you think?

Steven Leigh: Well, and so, I love the book but almost more important was the connection there. Because when I hear this, you were talking about Sean Terry and this kind of millionaire real estate guys who were all talking about that book. That doesn’t even compute, why would these business guys be talking about this spiritual book?

Tom Krol: Right.

Steven Leigh: And it just kind of clicked in my head because I was just like there’s like a message in this for me, this is like pointing me in a direction that these people are talking about this book. And so, I started listening to your podcast and Sean Terry and just all these different sources. And I started kind of being pulled into the direction of wholesaling, and then just started kind of taking action from there and had really good success early on and then kind of fell on my face for like several months. It was just like a huge struggle for a long time. But it kind of felt like it was kind of my spiritual journey to go through. When I-

Tom Krol: It’s absolutely.

Steven Leigh: … when I started it out, I told myself not only this kind of like burned the boats moment, I’m going to make this work or I’m basically I’ll die or whatever, but it was also like, you know what? And I said to myself, I was like, and just kind of like to the universe, I said, you know what? I want to blow this business up as fast as possible. And if that means that I have to fall on my face and make every mistake in the book early on and as quickly as possible, I’m okay with that. For the first time in my life, I’m okay failing if it’s going to lead me to success.

Tom Krol: My very good friend Joe McCall, if you guys don’t know his podcast, you should listen to it. He’s phenomenal but, and he uses this with permission. He asked if he could borrow, but one thing I always say is wholesaling is easy. Wholesalers are complicated and it needs a [crosstalk 00:07:29] journey. This has nothing to do with the postcard in, the list and the script and all that. You’ve got to get yourself right first and then the floodgates just open, and the Four Spiritual Laws is a big part of it. But so, let me ask you this. So, let’s get right to meat and potatoes. It sounds like you’re a married guy with a two year old?

Steven Leigh: That’s right. Well, she’s three now.

Tom Krol: Three, okay.

Steven Leigh: But yeah, she’s about two when I kind of started all this.

Tom Krol: Were you working full time when you started?

Steven Leigh: I was working part-time and then kind of part-time stay at home dad. So basically, kind of still doing that and it’s a struggle to get all that kind of scheduled in.

Tom Krol: Can I ask you, how old are you?

Steven Leigh: I’m 38.

Tom Krol: Oh, I’m 38 too. You’re in good company. Okay.

Steven Leigh: Yeah.

Tom Krol: I love it. All right, so perfect. So, let’s do this. So you are a 38 year old married guy with a now three year old. You got started. Let’s get started with where you got started. Right? So tell me what that looked like. You decided, okay, you’ve got enough education, it’s time for some progress, not perfection, some massive imperfect action. What was the first thing that you did?

Steven Leigh: So I think, let’s see, the first thing I did is I started doing some mailings. So I grabbed, I think the first thing I made was like an equity list, which is owners who have a certain amount of equity in the house, but I had almost no budget to work with.

Tom Krol: Let’s-

Steven Leigh: I got-

Tom Krol: … get very, very, very specific. So from [crosstalk 00:08:57]-

Steven Leigh: Sure, yeah.

Tom Krol: … so, you decided to use to send a mail piece to a list of homeowners who have equity. Now, anybody who doesn’t know equity is very simple. Equity is just a jargon word. It just means that the homeowners owe less on the property than the home is worth. So, if your home is worth $100,000, they only owe $50,000 on their mortgage.
One of the keys that you need as a wholesaler is, you need motivation one, which means that the homeowners have an impending event. If they don’t sell by X and Y will happen, and you also need equity. Those are the two pieces of a criteria that you need as a wholesaler. So, you bought a list. The first question is where did you buy the list from?

Steven Leigh: Okay, so I got the list from ListSource.

Tom Krol: Okay, awesome. Now, I’m going to be pushing you into the Tribe at the end of this call because just everybody knows Steve is not a Tribe Member, you know on ListSource, we have the greatest discount in the whole world, which is we only pay 3 cents a name on ListSource, which is crazy. That pays for the course almost on day one.

Steven Leigh: That’s nuts.

Tom Krol: It’s absolutely nuts. It’s unheard of. But we are absolute. Our tribe of rhinos, of Wholesaling Rhinos is absolutely blessed. So, I am so happy. We negotiated very long and hard weeks for what happened to get that. So, you bought a list from and it was an equity list. Now did you just click on equity list or did you build your own equity list?

Steven Leigh: I built my own and I think at the time I did 40% or more and I didn’t have a lot of budget to work with.

Tom Krol: 40% percent on what, equity?

Steven Leigh: Yeah, 40% equity.

Tom Krol: Did you do your whole county or did you just do hot zip codes or how did you do?

Steven Leigh: No, yeah, because I didn’t have much budget to work with. So, I picked maybe like the two hottest zip codes.

Tom Krol: Okay.

Steven Leigh: And it ended up being a list of something like 380 people.

Tom Krol: Okay. So, I want to be able to give these people a blessing, right? So that the listeners so that they can do it. So first of all, when you say hottest zip codes, how did you determine what a hot zip code was?

Steven Leigh: Okay. I can’t remember exactly where. I think this is like Cris Chico’s trick maybe in it, I think you can find it on YouTube. Something like Cris Chico hottest zip code, something like that. And he walks you through basically using ListSource. You can find some of the hottest zip codes to market to. It’s basically finding the zip codes where cash buyers are buying the most.

Tom Krol: Got it. So, let me just give a little clarity. So, in every county there are hot zip codes where they’re the most cash transaction. If you go to YouTube you can see it on Wholesaling Inc on our side or on Cris Chico. Cris is spelled C-R-I-S and then Chico. He talks about hot zip codes and he’ll show you exactly how on ListSource you can actually without buying anything, actually line up and pick the hottest zip code. So we do it at Wholesaling Inc and Investor Grit and also Cris. So, all right, so you pull a list that is equity of 40% or more plus the hot zip codes. Now obviously, you used other criteria. Did you pick like property type, like only single family or did you choose?

Steven Leigh: Yeah, I did only single family, actually, for this one I think I did non owner occupied as well. I think I only did that.

Tom Krol: Okay, so non occupied. If you go to ListSource, there’s another tab all the way to the right that says that you want to pick what they call absentee owners, and that’s where you can pick owner occupied meaning that the homeowner lives in the home. And sorry Steve, I just want to go slow because some people are brand new who are listening.

Steven Leigh: No, absolutely. Yeah.

Tom Krol: Okay, so you can choose on ListSource, owner occupied, meaning the homeowner lives in the home, or non-owner occupied or what they call absentee owner. Meaning the homeowner does not live in the home. Those homes are historically, they tend to be a little bit more motivated than the people who live in the home. Okay. So, did you do anything with age criteria or anything else that we need to know about?

Steven Leigh: I don’t think I did for the first one. And then the only other thing was the sale date. The last sale date, I think I did at least three years. It might’ve even done five if I was trying to trim it down. So that basically, the house hadn’t been sold in the last three years because obviously they’re not going to be all that interested in selling if they just bought it two years ago.

Tom Krol: So guys, what Steve is talking about now is, there’s another tab under a property called last market sale date. And what he did is he went back for, so if it’s 2017 or at that time, I guess I don’t know if it was 2016, but you went back three years, meaning that the last market sale date was on or before 2014 or whatever that date was. So, we went back three years. So just keep that in mind when you’re building your list. Okay. So how did you pick your mail piece?

Steven Leigh: Let’s see, what did I do for my first, you know what? I kind of borrowed a mail piece that someone had posted on BiggerPockets.

Tom Krol: Beautiful.

Steven Leigh: They had shared it on a blog post, and it was kind of like, well, I’m not going to reinvent the wheel if this was working for this person I’ll try it. And I just sort of like recreated it myself. I did the handwritten font and at that time it was kind of like a combination of sort of a business letter with letterhead on it, but also kind of handwritten, if that makes sense.

Tom Krol: Do you have a copy of that so that we can see that or if we could post that on this episode?

Steven Leigh: Yeah, I’ll send it to you.

Tom Krol: Okay. If you can send it in to whoever booked your call. We’re going to put it on the podcast page so that anybody who wants to use it, also now, did you hand write it or did you order it from a mail house?

Steven Leigh: I printed it at home, but with a handwritten font.

Tom Krol: Beautiful.

Steven Leigh: So, yeah. Just to like save money and whatever.

Tom Krol: Very scrappy, very gritty [crosstalk 00:14:20] And you said that only 300 and so many letters?

Steven Leigh: Right. And actually what’s funny is my first mailing, I only had the really kind of like budget to send a hundred and believe it or not, I got my first deal out of that first hundred mailing.

Tom Krol: I don’t, that’s very unheard.

Steven Leigh: I know. Its like-

Tom Krol: That’s awesome. I love it.

Steven Leigh: People listening out there, that’s probably not going to happen, okay? I mean we’re not making promises here, right?

Tom Krol: Yeah. Absolutely.

Steven Leigh: It’s probably not going to happen.

Tom Krol: So, results are not typical. So, that is key because a hundred usually have to mail a little bit more than that just even to produce your phone call.

Steven Leigh: Sure.

Tom Krol: So now, when you send out your mail was it going to voicemail or to live answer?

Steven Leigh: Voicemail.

Tom Krol: Okay, perfect. So, and what are the voicemail say?

Steven Leigh: It was just simple. It was like, “Hi, this is Steve. I’m sorry I missed your call. Leave me a message. If this is about a house that you’re interested in selling, give me the name, the phone number, and the address of the house.”

Tom Krol: Beautiful. I love that.

Steven Leigh: And I got that from you. I think-

Tom Krol: Awesome.

Steven Leigh: … because that’s kind of a screening. It’s a screening process, right?

Tom Krol: Right.

Steven Leigh: Like the more info they leave, the more motivated they’re probably are.

Tom Krol: Absolutely. All right, perfect. So it goes to voicemail and you do your first deal. So, tell me when the homeowner called you, tell me exactly what happened on that first phone call. So they left a voicemail. Did they leave all their information?

Steven Leigh: Yeah, I think she left all the info, it was actually her daughter who called me.

Tom Krol: Okay.

Steven Leigh: It was an older lady who owned the houses and her daughter was kind of trying to help her out and she said, “We’re not interested in selling the property you mailed us about, but we have several others that were interested in selling.”

Tom Krol: Beautiful.

Steven Leigh: And I just went [inaudible 00:15:58].

Tom Krol: Now, let me ask you this. I remember somehow you got either my cell phone number or you got me on Facebook. I don’t remember, because I’m not really on Facebook too much anymore. But I guess you might’ve sent me a message. I don’t remember now. But I do remember now that you’re saying that it’s triggering a memory that did you reach out to me and asked me about somebody with multiple properties and I made a suggestion of just, I would have suggested to just buy one or is that, am I totally off-base here?

Steven Leigh: No, you’re right. But I will say this, that suggestion came too late. And what I did is I actually got three of them under contract, which actually wouldn’t have been so bad except that two of them ended up being kind of a nightmare to do anything with. But one of them turned into a nice deal. It was in a good neighborhood. I got it at a pretty good price, especially for just kind of my first deal.

Tom Krol: Right.

Steven Leigh: And it was just the kind of process, right? Of just talking to… Well, first talking to her daughter and then eventually I met the owner who is her mother. I met her at the property and we kind of walked through it and it was in bad shape and I was just kind of building rapport with them.

Tom Krol: So, let’s just slow down for one second-

Steven Leigh: Sure.

Tom Krol: … because you went over a lot of different things. So first of all what I want to say is, the first thing I want to suggest is that anybody who’s dealing, especially when you’re first starting out with somebody who has multiple properties, a good idea is just to focus on the one property. That’s just a general suggestion and get that one property out of the way, then focus on the other. So pick the best property and then that’s number one.
Number two, is Steve said something very important. He said, well, he had three under contract but only one worked. This is a really good recommendation is that, if you have a property under contract and it is not going to work out, you can’t buy the property for whatever reason or whatever you’re looking to do. Wait two, three, four at the most five days. Always tell the seller up front that there’s a problem and then cancel the contract as soon as possible.
You never want to drag out a contract in a seller because what happens is, if the seller selling a house that is a problem house, is like having a splinter and as soon as you come and take that splinter out, the seller is going to start to make plans based on that splinter not being in their brain anymore. If you’re going to have to reassert that splinter, you’re going to want to let them know really quickly and do it quickly.
You’re not going to want to drag it out for 30 days when they’re going to be more motivated. So, I’m hoping that you cancel the contract. It sounds like you did relatively quick, but I just want everybody out there to know, if you do have to cancel the contract, cancel it quickly. The other thing is, it sounds like you had a conversation with the daughter, so when you called back, the daughter picked up, I just want to get back into the story here. How fast did you go back and see the actual seller or the property after that conversation?

Steven Leigh: Really quickly, as soon as they were willing to do it, which was probably the next day maybe.

Tom Krol: Beautiful.

Steven Leigh: Or the day after that. Yeah, I wanted to jump on it really fast. So yeah, we went out and saw it and we sort of went back and forth a little bit on price and then we kind of found something that worked out pretty well and I think we settled on something like 25,000

Tom Krol: Well, Steve, you said before you even got into pricing, you said something about building rapport.

Steven Leigh: Oh, Yeah.

Tom Krol: So I just want… Now, how much time did you spend building rapport and finding out more about the situation and the people who were selling before you’d started discussing pricing?

Steven Leigh: Oh, like a huge amount of time. I mean pretty-

Tom Krol: A huge.

Steven Leigh: … much the whole time. Yeah.

Tom Krol: The whole time, you guys, I want everybody to listen to this, right? This is the most important thing. What we do has very little to do with real estate. We are problem solvers. As wholesalers, wholesaling is the art of consistently finding discounted or “Wholesale priced homes.” It all has to do with building rapport. You are a pawn shop. This is not about real estate.
So rapport, rapport, rapport, rapport, build the relationship. Be a friend, listen, listen as if you’re building a story when they’re talking to you. So, if you don’t understand the story and you can’t tell it to somebody else and you haven’t listened well enough, so build a rapport. So, I just want to harp on that for a minute, Steve, because that, you said it really quickly, but that is such an important piece of why this was a successful deal.

Steven Leigh: Absolutely.

Tom Krol: So, you put the property under contract for $25,000 where did you get the contract to use?

Steven Leigh: I think I got it from Sean Terry maybe, as he shares his contract, it might’ve come from somewhere else because I’ve got a few that free sources online and things. But yeah, I think it came from Sean Terry, if I remember right.

Tom Krol: What a suggestion for everybody. Real estate has all kinds of risks and complications. It’s regulated, it’s an industry. So if you get something off the internet or from my buddy Sean, who Sean is awesome. He was one of my mentors when I first started. Sean is awesome. But what I would do is Sean lives in Phoenix, in Arizona or somewhere in Arizona and his contract might be specific to that area.
So, what I would do is no matter where you get your contract, whether you’re a Tribe Member, you get it from me or you get it from Sean, or Joe McCall, or Cris Chico, or Tracy Caywood or any of the other coaches out there. Always bring that contract to an attorney, have it do an attorney review. Make sure you tell an attorney everything that you’re doing, everything that you’re planning on doing and make sure that you’re staying within what the regulators want you to do in that particular state. Don’t do any of this without speaking to an attorney first. Okay. So go ahead. I’m sorry. I know I keep interrupting stuff like that.

Steven Leigh: No, absolutely. That’s a good tip. And I actually took it to my title company, had them look it over, they had their attorney look it over-

Tom Krol: Perfect.

Steven Leigh: … and I think we even made a couple of quick modifications –

Tom Krol: Awesome.

Steven Leigh: … based on his recommendation. So, it’s a great tip. Yeah. So anyway, got this under for 25,000 and just kind of given the work and things that it was going to need. I wasn’t prepared to do that kind of work. So, I knew that it was a good deal and I wanted to give some other investors the opportunity to potentially buy this instead of me.

Tom Krol: Got it.

Steven Leigh: So, just started letting some investors know I have this deal, it’s in this area. Someone contacted me and they wanted to know more details about it and that kind of stuff. And I think I was talking about is assigning that to them. It maybe I think 32,000 is what I was kind of starting at.

Tom Krol: Okay. So, basically you have a home under contract, it’s $25,000 after you take a closer look at it, you decide I don’t want to actually purchase the home, I’d rather assign the contract. That’s what Steve was talking about.

Steven Leigh: Exactly.

Tom Krol: So, he finds some real estate investors who have the cash to do that, to buy this contract from him. Now, how did you find those real estate investors?

Steven Leigh: Let’s see. I think this is someone I met in a networking group actually, like a regroup or there’s another networking group that I go to and they said, if you find any deals in this part of town, make sure and let me know. And so, I sort of thought of them immediately. So, she was definitely interested, like I said, we started out about 32,000 and she wanted to be closer to like 25,000 and of course I had it at a contract for 25, I was never going to go that low, but we settled somewhere in the middle. We settled at about 28,000

Tom Krol: Okay. So the $3,000 assignment fee.

Steven Leigh: Right. And so for my first deal, I was just, I mean I had been, just trying and trying, and trying to get that first deal. And I-

Tom Krol: Awesome.

Steven Leigh: … was pretty happy with that. So I was like, okay, we’ll do it 28,000 she said we could close in two weeks. I think we ended up actually closing about two and a half because there was just something that, paperwork issue or something. But that one definitely closed and got almost $3,000 cheque. There was like a little fee that came out of it or something.

Tom Krol: Awesome. So, you’ve got a $3,000 assignment. So on an assignment so everybody knows then what Steve decided to do was instead of he took the contract and he assigned it to a cash buyer, a real estate investor for an assignment fee of $3,000. So that they actually bought the home from the seller and you told the seller everything that you were doing, full disclosure. Right?

Steven Leigh: Of course.

Tom Krol: Awesome that’s [inaudible 00:24:05].

Steven Leigh: And they were totally great with that. I mean, I told them the different options of what I might do with it. And they were just in this situation where, this owner had I think 20 rental properties that she owned with her husband who passed away and they were managing them all themselves. And now it’s a situation where she’s like 79 years old, her husband passed away a good bit of these are like sitting empty. I mean, she has no capability to manage these and no interest in doing that. And she just really needs to get rid of these properties. And that it’s a great situation. I mean and she was so happy to be done with this property and it was just a great win-win all around for sure.

Tom Krol: I got to ring the victory bell, so I got to get off my treadmill desk. I got to take off my headphones so I won’t be able to hold on for one second. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. I love it. All right.

Steven Leigh: Love it.

Tom Krol: Back on, back on my treadmill desk. So congratulations. So $3,000-

Steven Leigh: Thank you.

Tom Krol: … assignment fee. So, how much did you spend to get that deal?

Steven Leigh: I don’t know. Probably I would say maybe two or $300. All told, just like different postage and materials and different things, but probably less even.

Tom Krol: Yeah. That’s awesome. So, since then you’ve done another deal?

Steven Leigh: Yeah, I did. So, I had like after that first deal, and this is something that you talk about all the time Tom, is like just not stepping off the gas or not taking your foot off the gas. Right?

Tom Krol: Right.

Steven Leigh: And I had just kind of like a bunch of setbacks after that and then more setbacks and it was just like so many struggles. Like that first one came so easily and then everything just got really hard for a while. But I did, I kind of I managed to do like kind of a $4,000 assignment kind of in the middle and then very recently, and this kind of goes back to that kind of spiritual struggle, that kind of spiritual growth we talked about. Right? I kind of got to like my lowest point and you and I actually had a conversation, where I was kind of like complaining, right? I was like-

Tom Krol: Oh really? Okay, I don’t remember.

Steven Leigh: … yeah.

Tom Krol: Sure. I will if you remind me. So tell me.

Steven Leigh: Yeah. So, I was kind of just complaining, I think like on a Facebook group or something. Right? And I was just saying I’m just feeling like the world’s against me right now, and all this kind of stuff. And then, you Facebook message me. And you were giving me some tough love, you were just like-

Tom Krol: Oh, really? What did I say?

Steven Leigh: Yeah.

Tom Krol: I can’t even remember this. Okay that’s good.

Steven Leigh: No, it was great.

Tom Krol: So what [crosstalk 00:26:46] we had two interactions because I’m literally never on Facebook, so you must be standing out in my brain for some reason.

Steven Leigh: No, absolutely.

Tom Krol: Tell me what [crosstalk 00:26:53].

Steven Leigh: And Tom it gets better like this is great. And so you messaged me and you were like look, you didn’t come back from a rack with no limbs. Right? I mean you’re not dealing with this horrible family illness or something right now, you’re just struggling with wholesaling. And you were like try to put it in perspective. But I will tell you, Tom, I wish I could say that I took that and I just thought, Oh, this is such a great guy, but I was so mad at you. I was so mad.

Tom Krol: Good. I like that bang of course.

Steven Leigh: I was just like, forget this guy. He doesn’t understand.

Tom Krol: Right. Okay.

Steven Leigh: It was great. By, I will tell you like over time, right? Like it kind of sunk in a little bit and what you did is you said, “Send me your address, I want to send you something.”

Tom Krol: Okay.

Steven Leigh: So, a couple of days later I get a note in the mail and it’s like a postcard with a rhino on the front. Okay?

Tom Krol: Awesome. Okay, now I remember it. So we sent you a victory bell.

Steven Leigh: And you send me a victory bell.

Tom Krol: I love it, oh men [crosstalk 00:27:57].

Steven Leigh: And a couple of days later, the victory bell arrives.

Tom Krol: Its so awesome.

Steven Leigh: But I love it because it meant so much to me Tom, seriously that you took the time, somebody who is not in the tribe, somebody who’s not anything to you at the moment, whatever. But just you took the time to encourage me. You took the time to kind of give me that tough love a little bit and sending the victory bell. And so, I hung that victory bell. And I’ll tell you in a little bit about what happened that we were really ringing that bell recently.

Tom Krol: Awesome. Okay, well yeah, so let me… I know that you’re giving me this reminder. I do remember you had made a negative post somewhere about something about feeling down and out, and in my perspective it just wasn’t like, I felt like you were probably too down and out for what you were struggling with. And I do want to say this to all the listeners, like you always have to keep this in perspective, right? We are so blessed. Sometimes it’s easy to forget how blessed we are with friends, family, our health. I mean, just little things like if you don’t have to be on a dialysis machine, that is a blessing. If like you said, if you didn’t come back from Iraq defending our country without any arms, right?
But if you’re sitting bedside by a child who, God forbid has cancer, these are struggles. It is so prideful and arrogant to be worried and to have anxiety and to have fear and doubt when your struggles are so minimal. And I don’t mean this to you personally, but I just mean in general for all of us, myself included, especially me. But sometimes when I’m down or I’m sad or I’m upset, there’s so much arrogance in that, there’s so much arrogance, pride, and puffing out in that.
How dare we, any of us be upset about anything when we live in the greatest country during the wealthiest time in history, and we have so much with houses, and a shelter, and food, and clothing so much that other people throughout history have never had. So yeah, I always want to encourage everybody that if you’re ever down and out and you’re upset, keep things in perspective.
And I know this is not a solution to depression or anything like that. I know there’s people who deal with emotional things, but if you’re just generally having a down day, go and be a servant, go and help somebody. That’s probably, and I don’t remember this, so I don’t want to misspeak here, but that’s probably what was happening. I was probably having a down day and maybe your posts triggered that and that’s why I decided to respond to you. But be a go-giver.
Read the book, Go Giver, read the Four Spiritual Laws of Prosperity. There’s so many, I mean, read the Bible Proverbs, it’s going to all the places all over where God says, “Don’t fear, don’t have anxiety.” Anyway, I just don’t want to go off on a tangent here, but I’m glad that I sent that post and I’m so glad it was a blessing. So, I want to hear when you said you recently rang that bell. I did see a video of you ringing the bell, but I don’t remember exactly what it was. So, give me a reminder, why were we ringing the bell? What is going on with that?

Steven Leigh: Okay. Well, so I don’t know how much, we’re probably running out of time or whatever. I don’t want to go too deep.

Tom Krol: No go ahead we usually keep them short. But this is a great podcast. I love it.

Steven Leigh: Okay, good.

Tom Krol: What do we got?

Steven Leigh: Well actually yeah because I love this story. So I got to tell you some of these details because for me it was, I really felt like, because everything you’re saying about not getting too deep into the depression and all that kind of stuff, I absolutely agree with it. But I will say that like we kind of talked about there is kind of that spiritual journey right there is kind of getting your head right.

Tom Krol: Right.

Steven Leigh: And for me, I felt like I almost needed to go through all that kind of dark time and all that struggle because like I said, I had been bad with money my whole life and all of this kind of stuff. And I feel like I had all this kind of stuff built up. Right? So every time I start having success, I start sabotaging it because I’m afraid of it or whatever that is. And I felt like I needed to kind of go through that to kind of work on that stuff out. Right. Like clear that stuff out to kind of make way for the big success to come in, you know?

Tom Krol: Okay.

Steven Leigh: And so what’s funny is I, of course I didn’t know this at the time, but like I got to that really low point and I kind of worked through it for the very first time, I told you like I have that burned the boats moment. I’m not going to back down from this.

Tom Krol: Awesome.

Steven Leigh: For the very first time, I actually had the thought, maybe I should just quit this, it’s getting too hard. I feel like I’m getting all these signs. Maybe I should just quit. And I went back to my, why. I went back to the reason that I started doing this in the first place, which was my daughter, which was my family, which was wanting a better life for all of us, wanting to change the trajectory of our lives. And when I got into that, I went, yeah, I can’t quit. I mean, I looked at my daughter’s face and I’m like, I can’t quit.

Tom Krol: Well.

Steven Leigh: There’s just no way I can’t do it right?

Tom Krol: I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yes. I mean, why is everything the why is your driver, the passion will-

Steven Leigh: Absolutely.

Tom Krol: … always outperform discipline every single time. Passion will always outperform. Discipline. Discipline is a small little tiny tank of gas. Passion is an endless supply of the universe is energy. I mean, when you want something and you want it bad, I guarantee it. You’ll make it happen if you’re passionate about it. So yes, I love it. So that is awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

Steven Leigh: Totally agree. Yeah, I mean you’ve just really got to sit down and get really clear on your why and then just keep digging deeper and digging deeper. I mean, if you say like, Oh, I want to make 5,000 more a month. Well why?

Tom Krol: Right.

Steven Leigh: Why do you want to do that?

Tom Krol: Absolutely.

Steven Leigh: Well because but why do you want to do that? Just keep going deeper until you get to those really core issues. And then that will just pull you through all that stuff.

Tom Krol: I love it.

Steven Leigh: Because there are going to be those setbacks-

Tom Krol: I love it.

Steven Leigh: … and you just got to, yeah.

Tom Krol: Don’t you go making me fall in love with you right now. I think it’s also might be your pretty [crosstalk 00:33:52].

Steven Leigh: It’s a bromance, it’s a bromance.

Tom Krol: It’s a bromance, so I love you, is you’re 100% right. And I’ve seen it again and again and again and again. Coaching hundreds of students for thousands of hours. I’ve seen this, it’s that it’s the passionate people, it’s the guys and girls who get the most result, make the most money. I want to say this again. The guys and girls who are clear on their why they get the most results. There is no success and failure. That’s the secret. The guys and girls who get the most results have the most success every time.
The way they do that is by having a passionate why, something that they care about. Whatever it is they want to be the biggest tither in church or they want a Lamborghini. That’s the other thing is, you have it for your daughter. Don’t be embarrassed of your why. Some people, they have a why that says they I want the penthouse on the condo. Great. Embrace it. There’s nobody judging-

Steven Leigh: Absolutely.

Tom Krol: … you about your why. Whatever gets you out of bed at four o’clock in the morning and you’re reading the miracle morning and you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing. That’s what your why is. Embrace it. I love it. So all right, so tell me what ended up happening.

Steven Leigh: Okay, so I reached that point. I get to that point and I say there’s no way I come back down. Right? So now I would say it was probably three days later. Right? I’m going through and I’m doing some some action and I’m sending mail and I’m doing just kind of my usual stuff-

Tom Krol: Awesome.

Steven Leigh: … and this deal, I get this kind of contact point and this one is kind of like, this is one of my good tips to share actually, which is if you’re getting returned mail that you’re mailing out, you’re getting returned mail back. If you’re not doing something with your return mail, you are throwing money away and you are wasting leads.

Tom Krol: Okay. Stop.

Steven Leigh: Yeah.

Tom Krol: I want everybody to hear what Steve just said, this is mission critical. Everybody talks about skip tracing. Everybody talks about what they’re doing with their direct mail that gets returned and here’s the truth guys, nobody’s doing anything with it. I-

Steven Leigh: Absolutely.

Tom Krol: … could not agree more. When you have return mail, you better deep dive because I’m telling you, nobody is going after those people and it is just a, to take a word from the three Amigos, right? With a, it’s a plethora, it’s a plethora of deals in that those return mail.

Steven Leigh: Absolutely.

Tom Krol: So this we’re talking about for anybody who is not sure what we’re saying. We’re saying when you send out mail and then you get mail that’s been returned to you because of a bad address or an absentee owner or whatever it is, and it can’t be delivered, those are the people to go after. So I guess it sounds like that’s exactly what you did.

Steven Leigh: Yeah, exactly. And I can tell you it’s true, no one’s doing that. I have a friend who was trying to get started in wholesaling and I was talking to him about stuff and I said, well, what are you doing about with your return mail? And he’s like, Oh, we don’t even put a return address on our envelope.

Tom Krol: Oh man.

Steven Leigh: I almost went Tom Krol on them. I was like, no good. No good.

Tom Krol: Yeah. Well, here’s the whole thing, right? Every, if you go to a REIA meeting, and you talk to people, they’re like, what are you doing? Oh yeah, I do this. And I do. And I’m like, Oh really? When’s the last time you did that? And they’re like, whew.

Steven Leigh: Yeah, I don’t really stack up after a while.

Tom Krol: Yeah they are not doing anything. I’m telling you right now. So let me, so I want to just, because we’ve been going a little long here so I just want to know, so first of all, how did you skip trace? What is a service that you use? So everybody can do that.

Steven Leigh: Okay, well I do some other stuff now but actually just the one of the just simplest ways is there’s a site called been verified, which is B-E-E-N,

Tom Krol: Okay, I’ll look.

Steven Leigh: And it’s like 25 a month. It’s not expensive. I will say it doesn’t give you the best phone numbers. It doesn’t give you the best emails sometimes, but it will give you a lot of times an updated address. And then one of the things that I do, and this is kind of one of my good tips, is it will give you, if you can find it will give you their Facebook profile.

Tom Krol: You guys, I hope everybody wrote that down so absolutely make it happen. So, let’s cut right to the chase. So you end up getting somebody from skip tracing return mail and what was, how much did you make?

Steven Leigh: Okay, so I found her on Facebook. It turned out to be her daughter, the owner’s daughter. Again, I guess this is my trend.

Tom Krol: Absolutely. That is a trend. You’ll see that the hottest leads in the whole entire, just to interrupt you for one more second, the hottest leads are always people are when there is a granddaughter or grandson renting a home from an out of state grandparent or grandmother or grandparent rather. Those are hottest leads for some reason. Those are always the hottest and that team seems to be nationally. That seems to be one of the hottest sources is when you have a grand daughter or grandson renting a home and they’re not paying rent from a grandparent who is out of state. That’s one of the hottest, but one of the other ones is when we have a child call for a parent, is also definitely right up, I don’t have the data on that one, but I do know it’s super hot. So you skip trace that you get our Facebook profile.
I love it. Gritty, scrappy, determined perseverance. Progress, not perfection. Sense of urgency. Speed of implementation. All the good stuff. I love it. Right. So you ended up getting the deal. All right, you got to tell us, cause we’re 42 minutes in now, I mean edited, right? But what is the final takeaway? How much did you make on that one?

Steven Leigh: I made over $41,000.

Tom Krol: No way, I did not expect that [crosstalk 00:39:11].

Steven Leigh: So, we were ringing that bell until it fell off a wall.

Tom Krol: Oh, brother, over $40,000 that’s profit?

Steven Leigh: That’s profit.

Tom Krol: Oh my goodness gracious. I love it. That’s it. Now I am in love with you. I love it, that is so awesome. Brother, I love it. Wholesaling is the fastest way to make a fortune in… forget real estate, in anything. I don’t care if you’re thinking about buying a franchise, it’s been a $300,000 so you can work 80 hours a week to maybe make 60 grand and live there. Oh, forget it. This wholesaling is the way to go, heads down. I love it, I am totally impressed.
You are definitely joining the Tribe, so I’m not going to pressure you on the phone right now, but I got to get you in the Tribe 100%. So we’ve got to figure out how we’re going to do that. Maybe we’ll do instead of payment we’ll do like a thing, a donation to St. Jude’s Children’s Hospital or something like that.

Steven Leigh: Oh, yeah.

Tom Krol: I would love to have you around. That’s awesome. So yeah, because we have live events and everything that we’re going to… we just had one in Salt Lake City. Our next one is in Orlando and it’s going to be awesome that the last one we had, we were maxed out. We only could fit 200 people, but this one there’s going to be no limited, well, a much higher limited sitting.
So, and it’s only Tribe Members come to our events. So, you got to come in 100% I want to have lunch with you. Awesome. I love it. We got it. We got to end it there because these podcasts are very short because we want people to have meat and potatoes, but I am impressed. Let me just say one thing. One thing you’re going to want to check out is there’s a book by Mike Michalowicz it’s called Profit First.
I would definitely recommend reading that book, because you want to be a good steward of the money that you get and when you have a big chunk like that, sometimes things could go a little haywire. So, we can talk about that offline, but awesome brother, I love it. If the victory bell was a little closer, I’d be ringing it like crazy.
I’m definitely going to mount it closer to my treadmill desk now, but Steve, we all appreciate you sharing. One last thing before I let you go. If you had a book that you could recommend, I know all the Tribe Members in our Tribe, we’re all big readers. I love reading. I recommend if anybody who’s not reading, who’s listening, start reading right now, every single day, all the successful people, I have all of my new mentors who are now worth a lot, they’re totally next level people you know up there in the top 1% of 1% they’re all big readers. They have libraries in their houses.
So, I definitely suggest reading every single day. Don’t tell yourself that you get tired when you read. Don’t tell yourself that you have attention deficit disorder and that you read something and you forget it. You have to reread it. Just get a book, start reading it. Be disciplined. You’ll definitely get, it’ll be hard at first and you’ll start reading later more effectively. But if you have a book that you have everybody to read that you would suggest, what would it be?

Steven Leigh: Well, I really love the ones that you mentioned all the time, Rhinoceros Success, Go-Giver, they’re just amazing. But I’ll give you one that’s like kind of new that I haven’t really heard a lot of people talking about, which is, it’s called Never Split the Difference.

Tom Krol: Okay.

Steven Leigh: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It.

Tom Krol: Ooh, I like that. I’m going to recommend it for myself.

Steven Leigh: And the author is Cris Voss. So, this guy used to be the former lead hostage negotiator for the FBI.

Tom Krol: I love it. Never Split the Difference.

Steven Leigh: Yeah. And so, he talks to you about how he was the lead hostage negotiator and so they had like, if they lost the negotiation, people died.

Tom Krol: Right.

Steven Leigh: So, they had to develop the best tools in the world to get people out of situations and they basically like never lost anyone and he just tells you how to apply it to business, how to apply it to life, how to apply it to-

Tom Krol: Who, is the author?

Steven Leigh: It’s Chris Voss-

Tom Krol: Chris Voss.

Steven Leigh: V-O-S-S.

Tom Krol: I’m going to see if I could get him on the podcast. That sounds awesome.

Steven Leigh: Oh, you should, you totally should. He loves doing that stuff too. I mean he’s-

Tom Krol: Awesome.

Steven Leigh: … amazing.

Tom Krol: I’m going to definitely read it. You have my word. I will absolutely add that to the library and I will read it. I’ve got about four or five books ahead of you, but I will guarantee 100%, I will read it, that book.

Steven Leigh: Yeah. And the thing that it did for me is, sometimes you go into like these negotiation situations and you just feel like you have no idea what to say. You’re just banging around. You don’t know what the heck you’re doing. And what it did for me is, it’s not about like brainwashing the person, but it’s just about having some kind of tools to fall back on. Just things to say to draw more info out of them and things to say to negotiate a price where you don’t feel like you’re just making it up as you go along, and that was huge for me.

Tom Krol: Let me say this about negotiating and meeting with the seller and building rapport. Any game plan is better than no game plan. That’s-

Steven Leigh: Right. Absolutely.

Tom Krol: … what I want, so anything you don’t have whether you want to listen to Sandler Sales or Dale Carnegie or a Zig Ziglar or negotiating books, the Art of the Deal by Trump or whoever you read or whoever you like or whatever that is, they’re all fine because anything is better than nothing. There’s also the one that says go for no, there’s another one I just picked up. What was he? I have it over there my bookshelf, but I can’t see the cover. But awesome.
Steve, we’re going to leave it there because you are definitely a go-giver. Thank you for all the detailed information. Thank you for sitting in the hot seat and we are going to go from there and I appreciate your time brother and I definitely want to have you on again, it’s been an honor getting to interview you. I appreciate your time today.

Steven Leigh: Absolutely Tom, and listen, thank you so much for all you’ve done for me. Thank you so much for this podcast, my entire business is here partly because of your podcast. I would say a large portion of it because of your podcast.

Tom Krol: That’s awesome.

Steven Leigh: Thank you so much, just personally for reaching out to me when I needed help and just being such a go giver. I mean I just, I still can’t believe you sent me a victory bell. This guy on Facebook and you just send me a victory bell. I mean it just means a lot that you have that kind of heart and that you really care about people like that.

Tom Krol: Always.

Steven Leigh: So, I want to thank you too.

Tom Krol: Absolutely. It’s no big deal, I’m a humble servant. I’m happy to help, that’s what I do. Your success is my success, so God bless you. I think it’s awesome. Steve, thanks very much for your time and you guys, that is Steve Leigh over in Ohio. So, if you want to have some success stories to talk about, if you’re interested about learning more about wholesaling and what that’s all about and you want to get started investing in real estate, go over to, fill out an application if we like what you have to say, we might actually invite you to be a Tribe Member. A Rhino.
All right. Join the rhino crash. I love it. All right guys, Steve, thanks again. I appreciate it and we will talk again very soon. I’m definitely calling the pressure to get into the Tribe.

Steven Leigh: All right.

Tom Krol: All right. God bless. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.

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