Being a wholesaler often evokes “pretty penny” images of large sums of money, but the truth is that it can be just as profitable as you can set up your business. You don’t need millions of dollars or even thousands to get started. You only need the motivation to make sales, good systems for tracking them, and a little seed money to get started.
Whether you are just starting out in wholesaling or have done it before, this podcast will help boost your expertise by revealing tips that many wholesalers follow.
In this episode, we highlight Brent Daniels and his million-dollar wholesaling company. Joining him are the best of the best in his acquisition team, Chad Coulter and Ryan Thornton, the Jr. Acquisition Manager and Acquisition Manager. Get immersed in the conversation as they share their experience and expertise in the industry, what motivates them to be a successful wholesaler, and how they use their skills in the real world actually make money for the company by flipping properties.
Wholesaling Masterclass – A Peak Behind the Curtain in Brent’s Wholesaling Business
I’m excited about this because I have my acquisition team on the show for the first time ever. I’m going to be peppering them with questions and show the process from when we get a lead to converting that lead into a signed agreement to an opportunity for our company to give some stats out there so everybody can relate to where we’re at. At the third quarter of 2021, we were shy of $1 million in profit for the year.
We had another $400,000 that is pending. We had $1,382,000 closed and pending. We wanted to push that up to $1.5, $1.6 million and end the year strong. It is my pleasure and privilege to introduce Chad Coulter and Ryan Thornton, Junior Acquisition Manager and Acquisition Manager for our team. Let’s get started. Let’s break this thing down.
We’ve got nine people in our company, if you’ve ever counted. We’ve got two cold callers, a texter. We’ve got Lisa, our VA in the Philippines, and we’ve got the five of us. We’ve got Chad, Ryan, me, Jackie and Jeremy, the five people in the office on Fridays. We come in every Friday, but we work together in town here in Phoenix. Why don’t you explain what you do every day, Chad, and we’ll go to Ryan and get into this thing.
I am the lead follow-up guy. I basically bring in the leads that get sent to me from the cold callers, the texters that I’ve at least given some type of motivation, condition, timeline or price that has turned into a legit lead. I get the information and I’ll call and make 50, 60 dials a day. I’m leaving voicemails, text messages trying to get information and speaking with sellers to find out if they are motivated, have a condition, timeline or price. I build rapport and trust with them as they go along. When they start with me, it could take up within a day or it could take six months. I have had one here for a year. It could take 9 or 12 months.
I continue to call and follow up, whether it be every few days, every few weeks, few months, to check-in and say, “How are things going? How is your family? How is your job? Do you need anything? Can I be a resource to you in any type of way?” I help solve their problems. That’s what we’re here for. I love talking to people all day long. Sitting on the phone and on the computer isn’t a torturous job for me. I enjoy it.
The leads are ready to be sent over to Ryan if they’re ready to make a decision within a month or two max to see if you can shorten that timeline a little bit. If it has a condition or if their story adds up to, “This is a legit lead for us,” or if their price point is right where we need it to be or even close, I’m sending it to him. I don’t want to waste too much time on that lead because I’m confident in the ability that he can do and convert it into a contract.
Ryan, what do you do?
Chad and I started about the same time and I’m looking at his notes and how he’s talking to people. It’s been amazing how he’s progressed. The flow of his conversations, the right questions he’s asking. The opening questions are so important. When I get to it, he tossed the ball up and it made it so much easier. When you have somebody who can talk to people in that manner and set it up the way he does, it makes it so smooth.
The difference is you get them early in the process. You are working with them until their timeline is shortened. When we look at our leads, the hot leads are within the next month. They’re going to sign with somebody. They’re going to make a decision. They’re finally ready to sign. Most of our leads, they’re coming from prospecting. We’re catching them before they’re reaching out to all the different companies for an offer, so it takes a while. It takes that 90-day cycle typically. That’s the average, but some of these go six months, a year or whatever else.
You’re staying in front of them. You’re texting them, calling them, voicemail them and staying in front of them. When they are ready to make a decision, you then pass them off to Ryan. These people have been talking to you, building rapport with you. They know your voice and your phone number. How do you pass it off to Ryan where they don’t disappear and ghost him as soon as you pass it over?
Typically, if I’m transitioning a lead to Ryan, I’ll give him a phone call and try to set a physical appointment to get him there because I feel like that’s his strong suit. When he gets in front of people, his closing rate is way higher and as it should be. He’s a personable guy, so I try to get them in front of sellers. If I can do that, I’ll try to set an appointment around their schedule as soon as possible because time kills all deals.
We’ve had the conversations of if I’ll try to send them a week out, but he’s tried to get me to as soon as possible. I’ll try to go about that not in a pressuring way but in the sense of, “We want to get you an offer as soon as possible. We’re serious. We’re buying properties all the time. The quicker we can get something together, the more flexible we are with our numbers.” I’ll try to set up an appointment. I’ll say, “My manager, Ryan, he’s going to give you a call.”
Is it only manager? It’s not finance manager or business partner?
There is so much power when you confirm and approve what the other is saying.
I usually don’t like to say finance manager, but I leave that to Jeremy so that he can use that, us going forward. I usually only say manager.
Jeremy is our Disposition Manager. He’s the one comping it and coming up with the buy numbers and what a lot of people refer to as an MAO, a Max Allowable Offer. You’re leaving that open so that Ryan can still leave a little bit of room to negotiate and be like, “I’m on your side, but I need to talk to the finance guy.” Are you not going there yet?
No. I don’t like to throw that out because I like to let him use that leverage. He’ll be able to say, “Let me go back to my finance guy and see if we can pull a little harder.”
I think the fear of a lot of people is, “If you’re passing it on and you’re not the manager, why am I talking to you?” Do owners feel that way or have you built in enough of a relationship where they’re like, “It doesn’t matter?”
I think it comes down to their motivation. If you come off as you want to try to help solve their problem and care about what’s going on in their life, they’re going to open up to you. They’re going to be vulnerable. They’re going to tell you about what’s the situation that they’re trying to work through. If you can listen and be an active listener and be there for them and try to help them in any way possible, that earns a lot of trust and rapport.
How about when it comes to you?
It’s essentially building off of what he’s already started. We already got all the notes. We already know that they want to sell. We already have an idea of most times what their price point is and the condition of the house. It’s a matter of me sitting in front of them, going, “What are your goals?”
I love that you go with that and we talk about it on the live show that you come into monthly or try to get you on monthly. Asking the question, “What is your goal with this property?” I think it’s such a brilliant question because it’s open-ended and it’s very positive. You’re putting a positive twist on this stressful situation. You’re not saying, “Why are you selling?” People have trained people to say this to people for years like, “On a scale of 1 to 10, how fast do you want to sell it or how motivated are you to sell it?” What is your goal is a way better question.
I want it to be their idea. The whole process is their idea. If they haven’t thought about what they’re trying to get out of the whole transaction, I want that to be something that they put into the world. “What are your goals?” “I want as much money as possible.” “That’s what I’m here for. What else?” I’ve talked about this before when you’ve had me on. Sit them down, get those goals and get what those pain points are before you walk the house.
You show up at the door. Chad’s been talking to him for 82 days. He sets an appointment with you. You show up. Have you usually talked to them before you go there or do you show up?
Sometimes, I’ll show up. I’ll text or I’ll call to confirm like, “I’m Ryan with Chad and that whole deal.” As soon as I show up, the one thing they want to do is show you the place, show you the house.
Nobody knows. You’re like, “Somebody is here. What do I do? I guess we’ll do this.”
Ask them. It’s like, “Do you have a second to chat a little bit? We have time. I’ll walk you around and see the house but let’s figure out how to do this properly.”
I love that one thing that you did. When they say as much as possible, there is so much power when you confirm and approve what they’re saying. If you start going, “I don’t know if I’m going to be the best offer. I don’t know if I can get you the most money,” or whatever else. All of a sudden, you start causing friction. All of a sudden, it starts going goofy and you’re sitting on one side of the table, they’re sitting on the other when you guys should be sitting side by side.
You have to understand whenever someone’s selling their house, it’s a life-changing type of deal. It’s a big deal. The last thing that they feel comfortable with is pushback. Obviously, you have to do what you need to do that makes sense. As soon as you start pushing, they’re going to start either pushing back or backpedaling. If you can avoid any of that, that’s how open, comfortable conversations happen, where, “He is here for me. This is going to be okay.”
Something that I’ve used from him is being that resource, looking at the different options that they have. I like to bring that up and that gives them confidence that you are there for them, like what he was saying. I’ve tried to use that a lot more and I feel like I’ve built even more rapport from doing it.
It’s crucial to listen to what people are actually saying.
On a weekly basis, you’re getting anywhere from 30 to 50 new leads and it’s coming in. These are quality. Jackie’s our quality control. Jackie Thornburg is our Lead Manager. The leads come in. She takes a look at them, making sure that they’re good. If not, she’ll kick them back to our prospectors. They filter to you. When you get that alert, how quick are you to review the notes and you call? What happens from that?
It depends on where it comes from. I’ll look over the information that we’ve gotten from either a texter or our cold caller and look at the pillars that they’ve gotten so far. I’ll look at the outside of the house, the picture, the comps and maybe if they’ve thrown out a price point. The information that I have determines how fast I get to it. If the house looks like it’s distressed from the outside, then that’s right away. If I click on the MLS and look and see it, if I think if there’s even a shot, that’s right away. If there’s not a ton of information, those ones get pushed back a little bit, but I’m still trying to get on them within the first day.
They come in and you’re on it the first day. You’re trying to get ahold of them. You’re trying to at least build some dialogue with them. Make sure you’re confirming what the notes say because sometimes they come in a little goofy and don’t want to sell.
Especially the text leads. It’s hard to filter through those. You want to try to get them on the phone and then go over like, “Are you even interested in selling at this point?” You try to get that.
I think this is important because when a lot of people are starting our business, they’re doing it part-time. They’re working this business as a side hustle to become their main business. In their mind, in their hearts, this is their full-time job, but the placeholder is their 9:00 to 5:00, their income that they’re making. A lot of people hire VAs or hire people that are texting or text a little bit and these leads come in. It’s important for everybody to understand your process because getting on these leads right away is important.
If you’ve got somebody else who is prospecting for you and you’re not doing it yourself, you have to get in there and start building that relationship as quickly as possible because they could change their minds. Somebody else could call in. They can start calling other people and start getting other bids. The hottest leads that we have to go fast. We’ve started turning on the web and pay-per-click leads and Facebook leads. Talk to me about how those have been for you.
Usually, if they’re looking to us, they find us, the leads are usually going to be pretty quality. We still have to filter through those as far as price.
When you say quality, do you mean fast? Do they want to make a decision fast? If people are reaching out to you, they’re ready to make a decision, typically. It’s way more expensive than we pay for prospecting.
You automatically assume that that timeline is shorter and you have to go through the price. That’s usually something.
Every time a lead comes in from pay-per-click or from Facebook, everybody gets a notice. Are you typically the first one to get ahold of them? Is everybody deferring to you and like, “Did you get that?” Do you jump on it?
He’s usually pretty good and says, “I got that.”
Are you in a group chat?
90% to 95% of the time, I’ll grab it. If I can’t, then he’ll call and we’ll go from there. If it’s ready that day, then I’ll set up the appointment and make sure it’s cool with a schedule and we’ll go.
We share a calendar. He can look in my calendar to see if I have anything going on then he can schedule it off.
The leads come in. How important is it to get on them right away?
Time kills all deals, especially marketing.
You’re paying for that. If you are not picking that up right away, you’re basically throwing money.
Especially being in Phoenix. It’s such a competitive market. They’re talking to people. People are calling them. They’re reaching out to other people. The person who can get there the fastest will usually have a good chance of winning.
Overall, we have the best chance. Our approach from the very beginning, “I heard you want to sell your house. How much do you want for it?” Honestly, time is so fleeting for people who are doing part-time and all this, but if you slow yourself down a little bit and make yourself memorable, which is what I think Chad does, that makes people want to work with us. That keeps people on the hook because, “I heard it from all these other guys, but I had this conversation with these people and I feel comfortable with them.” That goes a long way.
Is this something that you think has evolved in these conversations? Do you feel like you were more comfortable with it? Are there certain things that you say that maybe you could share with anybody that you have these certain questions or maybe the tone of your voice? You say ma’am and sir more than anybody that I know, but there’s that charm to it. There’s that Arkansas to North Dakota to now Phoenix.
Referring to that, it’s how I was raised in Arkansas and anybody from the South can attest to that. It’s what you do and out of respect to your older people, your parents, teachers or anyone. That’s something that has stuck with me from my parents enforcing it. I tried to implement that in my phone calls and every once in a while, I’ll get a seller who compliments that and appreciates the way that I speak with them. I’m a pretty soft-spoken guy. I’m not super loud. You have to have energy on the phone, but at the same time, you don’t want to blow their ear off.
You want to be able to sit back and hear what they have to say as well. The biggest thing is a timeline, especially to try to move over to him. I try to hone in on when they’re looking to make a decision and because, obviously, the numbers are changing every day as the market is changing. We want to make sure that when you’re ready, we have the most accurate and best offer for you at that time. That hones in on, “I’m not ready to make a decision for a few weeks or a couple of months.” That’s helped me a lot. I am also, having conversations with him each week. We probably have a couple of phone calls a week and texts. He’s helping me hone in on my skill.
A couple of calls, only two?
Real estate wholesalers are deal finders, not deal creators.
You guys are communicating all day long. You guys are texting. You’re saying getting on the phone, talking about a specific lead or whatever.
It’s more so him and me talking about a lead, about questions that I could or should ask and that’s helped me a lot through this past year. It’s obviously shown.
How important is listening to what they’re saying back?
It’s the most important.
It’s the only thing.
I’m there to serve them and help them. You have to listen to what they want to do. That’s the thing that people struggle with the most because they feel like they need to be giving you. They need to be selling themselves. “This is what I do,” instead of going, “What do you need me to do?” It’s important to listen thoroughly, ask open-ended questions and let them talk. If you got to take some notes or whatever, then do that. I heard you talk about this, then go down the list they said and hit all those points. It’s so important.
What happens when you run across the person that has their force field up. It’s the first time that you’re going over there. You’re asking them questions and not feeling it. This happens on the phone too. You’re trying to get to the bottom of it, but they’re like, “Give me the offer.” How do you get around that?
I preempt with, “Do you know how this process works?” They know what a traditional sale is. You work with the realtor, you listed on the MLS. You have showings, you know about that. “Are you familiar with the process of cash investors and the difference?” “No, what’s the difference?” You walk them through that. You educate them off, “This is what I do. This is the difference. Here are the benefits and here’s the process.” They’re like, “Okay.” That slows them down as far as what will happen next because they already have an idea. “All right, then what do you need me to do? You tell me what you need me to do.” That type of deal.
You’re doing all the heavy lifting because you’re hand dialing. How many hands dials do you make in a day on average?
I like to stay between 50 and 60. It has been incredibly busy with getting married and traveling so much, but I can sit down if I felt like I can sit down.
We’d be at 2 million if you weren’t messing around. We got to turn things on and off based on Chad’s schedule.
I feel if I sit down for two weeks in a row and dial 50, 60 times a day, then we’ll have like 4 or 5 contracts coming in and we’ve seen that. I do the front loading stuff, as you said. Success will come for everybody if I can do my part, make those dials, and be consistent with it.
If I had to sit and dial 60 times, I don’t know what I would do. I need to be out. I need to be in front of people. I need to be driving.
That’s the point. That’s the beautiful thing. Looking at how many leads you need to have to hit the financial goals that we have as a team, it’s impossible for one person to handle it all. You have two options. You have two full-time acquisition managers or do you have a role where you have a setter, essentially you, that it’s going through and setting up all of these leads and appointments, then Ryan goes to close.
It’s been smooth because I’ve had it both ways. I’ve had multiple acquisition managers and I’ve had this. This has been so much more smooth because your superpower is to go in, close, being in front, being out in the streets, driving around and knocking on doors of people that are trying to ghost us or whatever else. You’re essentially pounding the phones at home. You go on some of these appointments when they want to see you or if it’s close to your house or whatever else, but for the most part, you’re setting them up to win. You’re assisting them.
There’s no, “What do I do without it?” It’s not even close.
I wanted to bring you guys in here and explain what that relationship looks like because most people reading this are getting started out or getting their first few deals going through. It’s not so much that lead generation is that scary. People understand that. They know that if you talk to enough people, you will find opportunities.
It’s the conversion. It’s the, “I have never done sales before. I was a teacher. I was a doctor. I was a truck driver. I was an engineer. I was in the military. I haven’t had a lot of experience selling homeowners or property owners.” What it comes down to is making sure that you pre-qualify them. You lead follow up and you have a great offer presentation where you go and you find out what their goal is and get the contract signed.
As with any new skill, it takes time and you have to do it. Someone told me to take imperfect action because if you wait for the perfect time to do something, you’re not going to do it. You’re going to do it so slowly that those deals are going to pass you by. If you have the time and you’re dedicated to this, take imperfect action, go to those houses, fumble through it and eventually, it’s going to click.
You’ll see results.
Give some advice to somebody starting out that’s got some leads and they’re excited to get their first contract signed. How do they shorten the timeline? How did they get their first contract signed up?
That’s probably you, shortening the timeline.
Shorting the timeline is more so of what their goals are. “What are you looking to do?” “I want to move closer to family or I need to move North or I have health issues or all those things.” Being able to nail down what the true motivation is going to give you a better idea of their timeline. Obviously, we want to shorten the timeline, but within reason.
We’re deal finders. We’re not deal creators. That’s the absolute fact. Would you guys agree with that? We’re not going to go in there and convince somebody with our wizardry and our smooth-talking and our silky, buttery closing techniques. That’s not real life.
With that being said, you want to make sure that you do get to that true motivation because if you leave out a timeline because you’re like, “I don’t know,” somebody else is going to call them the next day and they’re going to get a deal. They got that true motivation on the wire and said, “I want to help you. I can help you within these parameters because this is what’s going on with the market.” There are all these little fine-tuning things, but asking the right questions is going to get you a lot.
Let’s break down a deal real quick because that’s what we do on this show. Let’s talk about Litchfield Park. That’s a great deal. We won’t reveal what we’re making on it yet, but where did we get that lead?
It was a Facebook lead or a web lead of some kind.
I think it was Facebook. By the way, I hesitate to give you this because I don’t want them to get too overrun with people, but the Bateman Collective is who we use. They’re phenomenal. It was the first. These have been phenomenal leads. What I would say is if you’re going to get into the web, if you’re in a major market, you need at least a minimum of $15,000 for your budget a month to build traction. If you’re in a smaller market, you can start with $3,000 to $5,000 but mention TTP with Bateman and he’ll hook you up.
Take imperfect action. If you wait for the perfect time to do something, you’re not going to do it.
It came in on a Monday, the day I got back after my honeymoon and I was trying to get back into the swing of things. It probably came in at 9:30. I called right away and didn’t get anything. I left a voicemail, sent a text, called again at 11:30 and he answered. We started having this long conversation and had already found multiple things. We were clicking on and talking about and got all the pillars. He’s like, “I need to get out of here ASAP.” I said, “Are you ready to put something together now?” It was fifteen minutes from my house and Ryan lives on the East Side. I was like, “Do I have him come in an hour and fifteen minutes over here or do I go?”
I said, “I’m going to go. It could be a deal if I couldn’t get it down any lower.” I was like, “I’m going to go.” He’s been pushing me to get out with him, go on appointments, and get in front and become more comfortable. It’s like imperfect action like he was saying to me and we talked about it after I got it done. I went out there and we probably sat at his table for twenty minutes talking about life before we even looked at the house, walked through videos and pictures. We sat down at the table. He showed me all of his cool collectibles and stuff. We started talking and he’s like, “If you can get to this number now, I’m ready.”
I say, “We’re this number.” I anchored him a little bit. He’s like, “I need to hear out other offers and stuff.” I say, “Let me step outside and make a quick call to my finance guy and see if we can pull someone out.” I called Jeremy and ran it one more time if we could make something out of this. I walked back in and I said, “I’m a terrible negotiator. I got my guy to pull up, but we’ve got to put something together now or he’s going to rip me.” He said, “Let’s do it. Do you have the paperwork?” I said, “Yeah,” and he said, “Let’s fill it out.” We filled it out and the rest is history.
What did you lock it up for? Did you even touch it at all?
Not at all.
You couldn’t have done it without him.
I couldn’t be prouder. I’m trying to get them on appointments because that’s going to give him a better idea of some of the questions I ask.
In the future, he’s going to have his own thing. How much did you lock it up for?
How much did you sell it for?
This is the second time that Chad has gone on an appointment and pulled this huge spread. How much was the first one?
It’s $90,000 or $91,000. I think what happens is the ones that are hard and like, “Maybe it’s not a big deal,” he’ll give it to me, but there are ones where he’s like, “I’m going to take this one.”
You’re like the starting quarterback and they put in the kid to get some experience, so the team can progress and he comes in and throws bombs.
I feel like I’m looking on the sideline going, “He had such a good throw.”
Congrats. I love you both. Thank you for being on the show. Anybody out there reading, here’s the deal. Every Friday we get together. That’s when we do our team meetings. We come into the office. We’ve got three TTP family members, three TTP students out there that get to experience, be around these guys, ask them the questions, and get into the nitty-gritty, boots on the ground, in the trenches, information, and instruction and tips and hacks. Everything that helps these guys be as successful as they are and as efficient as they are.
If you are interested in joining the most proactive group in real estate investing, it is the TTP family. Go to WholesalingInc.com/TTP. It is the number one coaching program on planet Earth for wholesaling. Check it out. Check out all the testimonials, what it is about. If it feels good in your gut, make sure that you sign up for a call. I look forward to working with you personally. Thanks for being on here. For everybody out there, I encourage you, as always, to go out there and talk to people. Until next time. I love you, guys. See you.
- Chad Coulter
- Bateman Collective
- Be sure to join the Wholesaling Inc Facebook group
About Brent Daniels
Brent Daniels is a multi-million dollar wholesaler in Phoenix, Arizona… and the creator of “Talk To People” — a simple, low cost, and incredibly effective telephone marketing program…
Also known as “TTP”… it helps wholesalers do more, bigger, and more profitable deals by replacing traditional paid advertising (postcards, yellow letters, bandit signs, and PPC) with being proactive and taking action every single day!
Brent has personally coached over 1,000 wholesalers enrolled in his “Cold Calling Mastery” training, and helped 10,000’s of others who listen to him host the Wholesaling Inc. podcast, watch his YouTube channel, and attend his live events…
A natural leader, Brent combines his passion for helping others with his high energy, “don’t-wait-around-for-business” attitude to help you CRUSH your wholesaling goals as quickly and easily as possible!