One great thing about real estate investing is that it opens other great opportunities for investors. This business could potentially provide multiple streams of income and give you the lifestyle you want. In this episode, joining Chris Arnold are Brian Rhodes and Greg Butler. They will discuss how using the radio as their marketing tool helped their business scale up by doing it in just less than 10 months.
Brian and Greg have been advertising in over 8 stations and are looking to grow their reach. Having radio advertisements is a very efficient tool for them. They are earning $40,000- $45,000 on a single deal and managed to close a $650,000 deal because of that strategy. If you are considering using radio as a marketing medium and maximize your profit, listen to this episode.
Amplify – The Unconventional Method Two Wholesalers Used to Close Two 6-Figure Deals in Less Than 10 Months
Here’s what’s in the pipeline. We’re going to talk about radio, but we’re going to talk about it with 2 studs at this point that in months had 19 contracts under their belt. They’re on eight radio stations. We’re going to talk about that, a $100,000 plus deal they’ve done and $1 million that they picked up, which they’ve not done before.
We’re going to talk about radio and momentum. What happens once you get up and going, not having one station, but you stick to this thing, reinvest, grow and snowball it. I’m super proud of Brian Rhodes and Greg Butler because when you hear these numbers, you’re going to be stunned. I told these guys, “In some ways, you are surpassing me in the sense of how many stations you are on and so forth. These guys are coming in. Honestly, they’re kicking ass straight out of the gate. I’m excited about that. That’s what you’re going to get from this episode. Wait until you read some of these numbers and stories that are starting to come out via radio. Brian Rhodes, Greg Butler, welcome to the show. How are you?
We’re doing awesome, Chris. Thanks for having us go.
We’re doing great. How are you doing, Chris?
I’m fantastic. I’m hanging out with you two studs and you guys are inspiring me. I feel like I need to stand up for this show. Brian, background real quick. You and Greg work together. You are partners but for people that don’t know you, how long you’ve been in the game? Where are you doing deals from? What type of deals do you do?
We’ve been around for a long time. We started in 2003. Greg and I met in college and did our first deal together shortly thereafter. We’ve been business partners ever since we left our full-time jobs in 2004. We’ve run the gamut of most residential real estate. We’ve fixed and flipped, wholesaled a lot over time, bought our share of rental properties and dabbled a little bit into some smaller commercial stuff. We’re getting into some private lending. We tried to do a little bit of everything in residential real estate.
A thing that I love about real estate investment is it’s not a cul-de-sac. What I mean by that is there are some businesses that you get into. You get into the cul-de-sac and there’s not a lot of new opportunities or ways that you can do things. If you’re reading this, you’re sizing up this whole world of real estate. We talk a lot about wholesaling, but we’re scratching the surface. It can lead to private lending, multifamily, seller financing, building a traditional rental portfolio and getting into technology. You can move over and start doing things like seller financing.
I love real estate because there are so many multiple streams of income that you can build. Your goal is not to build all of them. Your goal is to begin to pick and choose the ones that give you the lifestyle that you want and also fit your gifts and strengths that you get in and go, “This type of real estate investment fits me. I love it.”
As you’re getting into this whole real estate game, know that it goes on and on with a lot of different spokes in the wheel of directions that you can go. When you hear Brian and Greg say, “We’re doing this and this,” that’s very normal after being in the game for that long. We’re going to talk about radio day and get into some numbers. I hope this show elevates your thinking on the scalability of radio.
Sometimes we interview students and they’re a little bit newer to the game as investors as a whole. It’s cool to hear those stories of how somebody has only been in the business for a couple of months and they’re already on radio doing a deal. I want to go a different direction and talk about what happens when you put this tool in the hands of guys like Brian and Greg that know how to wield this tool and scale it up. Brian, you have been advertising on radio for quite some time. You’re at 5 stations and signed contracts on 3 more. That means that you are going to be advertising on a total of eight radio stations.
Yes and we’re still growing.
You told me that you’re already looking at another one, number nine.
If I’m reading, I’m curious. Are all these stations within the same geographic area or are you going into other states at this point?
Richmond, Virginia, is our main market and they are all within that area. One positive about radio is that a lot of the calls we get tend to be an hour outside or more of our main market, which we love that opportunity as well.
Your style is much like mine. I believe in virtual wholesaling, but I’m a DFW guy. I live in Tulum, but our business operates out of Dallas-Fort Worth. Rather than jumping to other states, nothing wrong with that. We’re like you. We put all of our money into DFW because there are millions of houses. Rather than jumping to other states, what we do is continue to expand our radius.
When we first started, we might work within about an hour range of downtown Dallas. Then it was like a 2-hour range and then a 3-hour range. There are two ways to grow your business. You can jump to another market or expand the radius of what you’re currently doing. Brian and Greg are like, “I’m on 8 stations looking at number 9 and we’re doing it all within the city that we operate in.” That’s a cool thing that you can scale that much within one city. At this point, here’s the big question everyone’s asking. What is the price tag for you to advertise up there in Virginia on eight stations? How much are you paying per month?
It’s $5,190 a month.
Some people are spending way more than that on direct mail. Let’s do a guesstimate. How many people are hearing this ad being on that many stations? What’s your best guess? Probably, more than one million?
It’s less than that. It’s probably in the 600,000 to 700,000 range.
The way we work is we advertise Monday through Friday, during primetime and five times per day. That means when we say cumes or listenership, these guys are hitting 700,000 people. That doesn’t mean that all 700,000 are listening at the same time but there are that many people that are tuned in regularly to the station. Can you imagine sending 700,000 pieces of direct mail per month? That’s insanity. How much would that cost? A lot. Greg, for months, you have contracted how many properties?
We contracted about 21, but 2 of those had fallen through. We’re in the middle of nineteen.
What we can say is if you’ve been on two months, you are picking up about two deals per month off of a $5,190 ad spent. That’s pretty solid and consistent.
Chris, I have to correct you. That ad spend is what we started spending more. We went for a long amount of that time when we were on 1 or 2 stations. It’s a lot better than what you said.
I’m giving you the number that you are stepping into. You had less of a budget to generate those nineteen contracts so far. It’s working in your favor. Looking at what you are doing, let’s look at some deals, margins and so forth. Greg, I was talking to you and I was like, “Everybody knows celebrity status and instant credibility. We talked about that again and again.” What I’m liking are the margins that we’re seeing. You do a combination of wholesaling, fix and flip and different stuff like that. What is the average conservative profit margin you see per deal?
The average is in the $40,000 to $45,000 range but that would probably be also if you take out 1 or 2 of our biggest ones, which would probably push that up a little higher.
That’s a fair assessment. You’re removing the big outlier pops, which would skew those numbers. I appreciate the honesty on that. Removing the outlier numbers, you are averaging about $45,000 per deal. Think about that considering the fact of what you are spending per month. When I see you and I get on a Zoom call, I see the excitement in your face because I know that a lot of people out there doing deals. You are doing deals and making money.
Combining radio and TV marketing together results in a stronger brand awareness only a few could ever attain.
You are putting money in your pocket because the amount of money that you’re bringing in on a profit margin versus the cost of what you’re paying that gap is so big. I know this is making you very profitable. I thought this was also interesting. That’s the fact that you owner finance a deal that you picked up for $15,000. Walk us a little bit through this deal and talk about the profit margin that you made. Who wants to tell the story?
I’ll be happy to. There’s a lot more to the story that I won’t get into all the details, but it was our first radio deal. If they all had gone the way, I thought we were going to be rich in the first couple of years. I called Brian. I was like, “You got to a whole lot more radio stations. We need to crank this thing up if this is where it’s going to be.”
What it was is we’d get calls from outlying areas outside of Richmond and this was one of those deals. It’s in an area where I’m not extremely familiar with. When I looked at the property, I wasn’t 100% confident in what it was worth. We together have done a lot of deals for years. I know the market pretty well in our area, but this one’s a little bit outside of that. It was a weird deal. It was a hoarder house type of deal. It had some land with it.
Some people would potentially want to tear the house down. Some people may not. Brian and I had the idea of, “Why don’t we put it out there on the actual open market, offer owner financing and see what we get?” It was interesting because we got several all-cash offers, with the highest one in the $80,000 range or something like that. We got another one. We got two-owner finance offers and one of them being $140,000. This is as-is. We didn’t do a single thing to the property. We ended up taking the $140,000 and getting 20% down. Their down payment was more than what we had on the property, to begin with. We have a first deed of trust paying a nice interest rate. One day they’ll owe us a whole bunch of money on a balloon payment, but we’re getting $1,100 a month.
That $15,000 owner financing deal will lead to what profit you have coming in on that?
The actual profit margin on that is roughly $115,000, but you add up all the interest. I’m not looking at an amortization, but my guess is it will probably end up being another $30,000 or $40,000. It probably will end up being $150,000 profit.
The first deal that you kicked out is a six-figure plus deal. That’s probably why you are being so aggressive because you had such a big win. Your confidence level went way up. You’re like, “I see the vision on this. Let’s triple down.”
It was our first radio station. On the second day, we were on the air.
I wish that happen to everyone. It doesn’t, but when it does, you happened to take that first swing at the first pitch and hit it out of the stadium. That’s the best thing ever. Those are my favorite stories because it doesn’t always happen. When it happens to guys like you, I get excited. What happened to your brain at that moment is like, “We’re all in. All chips in on this.”
Talking about one of the benefits of radio, and this came up on a previous show I was doing with Tony Javier, you did a deal and the response was, “We received a lot of other outbound marketing being cold calling, text blasting, even direct mail. We bypassed everything that was sent to us and called you directly because we found you more credible because you on radio.” Who wants to talk a little bit about that? Give us a little bit of the backstory.
I hadn’t even had a chance to discuss this with Brian because it just happened. I went up getting the property under contract and got a nice deal. We’re buying it for $35,000. We’d probably be happy to pay $55,000 for it. When I started talking with her, she called in on our website for our number, which means that she started looking around and trying to find more credibility about us.
When I asked her how she found out about our website, she told me it was a particular radio station. She said, “The fact that you were on the radio is the only reason I’m calling. You wouldn’t believe the number of people who call, text, send me a mail and so on.” I was thinking to myself, “I would believe you.” Everybody gets that. She said because we were on the radio, she found us to be potentially more credible or professional and I went with it.
We’re going to talk about force-multiplying mass media, utilizing both radio and television. Greg, I love that story because if you’re dealing with competition, which we have, the reality is the word on the street about wholesaling is everybody can become a wholesaler. There’s no barrier to entry. There’s nothing that you got to do to get into the game.
How will you separate yourself from people who are sending mass amounts of direct mail and text blasting at a high level? One of the best ways to do that is to market to people in a way that makes you look superior, the expert, that you’ve been in the game more in the sense of time and that you’re able to come in and provide greater value. That is simply perceived, not because they met you or you had a conversation but simply because of the vehicle to which you communicated your message. That’s pretty powerful when you think about it.
In visiting with sellers over the years, there are a couple of people or investor companies in our market that sellers know about. The vast majority of people that get into the business don’t have any brand recognition. If they do, it’s not good. From bandit signs or something like that, that has a negative connotation. It’s been interesting to me to talk to sellers. They would always know 1 or 2 other bouncers in town. This new marketing, doing radio and combining it with TV, so far at this point with radio in alone, we’re already getting a brand awareness that almost nobody has.
A lot of people are playing the short game and not the long-term game. The long-term game is that you want to focus on building your brand. Lead generation is the definition of generating leads and that’s an important thing to do, but what will surpass that long term is the ability to have a recognizable brand. If it’s Apple, Uber, Coca-Cola, those brands carry much strength, power and respect in them simply because of the brand itself.
A lot of people, particularly new investors, are not thinking about the brand. They’re so busy trying to fill the pipeline full of investment opportunities. When you start that way, there’s nothing wrong with it. Do not kick the can down the road on the concept. That early on, you need to start thinking about formulating a plan for how you’re going to strengthen your brand and make your brand transcend all of the other investor brands in the area because not all brands are created equal.
There’s a major difference between the feeling of Ferrari versus a Honda Civic. You feel the difference when I say it. Those two brands create two different total types of feelings when you think about them. A lot of people are like, “That’s true about cars.” Maybe that’s true about fashion and luxury, but it’s the same about your estate business. People feel something when they hear your brand. That’s something I’m glad that you took the time to touch on there as well.
I like the fact that you have been in the game a little bit longer and are starting to innovate a little bit. What I mean about this in radio is we teach a template. We give you a turnkey process to get you off the ground, everything that we’ve split tested, but there comes the point where you move from duplication to innovation.
What’s happening with Brian and Greg is they’ve had some time in the game, so they duplicated the REI Radio system. Then they’re like, “Can we come in and start to put our flair or spin on things?” Let’s talk about a couple of things that you are doing that we don’t teach, but they work and you are seeing some great results from it. Brian, talk a little bit about the jingles. You are playing with the whole idea of putting a jingle in the radio ad.
Out of the box, your system that you have students get in throughout the country is awesome, but we were starting to think that we’ve been on a couple of these stations for a while. People are probably getting tired of hearing of Greg and Brian doing the same old spiel. “What can we do differently?” We created a new script so a new ad. With that, we’re like, “What can we do to give it a little different feel?” We had a little bit of music that plays in the background, real soft and at the end, it comes up and it has our catchphrase.
I knew nothing about radio. That’s called a stinger. I love it. It’s that little catchphrase like what you hear on all marketing on radio and TV. When you hear that ad 100 times on that station a month, it’s going to stick in people’s heads. They’re going to think about us. We started to do that on all of our ads and it turned out well.
Are you able to share the jingle or is that something you want to keep between yourselves?
It says, “Pick up the phone and call the Red Door Guys to buy your home.” We paid a professional singer to do it. I’m happy to share that with you.
You’ve got a nice rhyme there, a professional person singing it and then music in the background that’s backing that up that’s catchy. We all know that jingles work because when we hear certain jingles, we’re like, “That’s going to be in my head all day. Thanks.” If you’re on the other end of it, you’re like, “That’s exactly what I wanted to do.” That’s the power of a jingle. That’s cool. We teach 60 seconds spots, but there comes a place where you can begin to tinker with the length of the ad. You’re not just doing 60s. What else are you doing?
We talked about doing 30s and priced that out. For our oldest station that we got on, we’ll move to the 30s soon. It’ll save us a little bit of money. In the beginning, you must teach us to have those 60 seconds to fully explain who you are, build brand recognition and go over all the pain points that a seller could feel. You can shorten that up. Go to 30 and save a little bit of money. We’ll do that soon on the first station that we’ve been on for ten months.
You can drive down your cost of radio. It doesn’t continue to increase. You can decrease it by becoming more efficient. Instead of running a 60-second spot, you can shorten your message, put it into a 30-second spot, save some money and then roll that into the next campaign or radio station that you want to buy. That’s cool as well. Let’s get into storytime. You got a good story for us, Brian, about this realtor and the opportunity to do your first $1 million deal. Tell us how did this unfold and what amazes you about this story.
Getting double brand recognition and force multiplier through radio and TV can change your marketing game, allowing you to get a higher level of respect from investors.
A realtor who’s a friend of Greg and mine was driving down the road and calling me. He goes, “Brian, I heard your radio ad.” I was like, “Cool.” We get that a lot. I’m sure you’ve had other students tell you. It’s nice when you get a call or text and they thought about you. “I’m driving out to a seller appointment on $1 million houses. Are you interested?” We’re deal makers, so my first answer is yes. We looked into it and it was a pocket listing. It wasn’t on MLS yet. We ended up negotiating, getting under contract and closing on it.
We rented it back to the seller for a month and just got possession. We believe that house is worth $1 million. That’s the biggest deal we’ve ever done in terms of the sales price. We’re pretty pumped up about that story, but the main point of it is I don’t believe he would call us. We’ve only bought one other deal from him since we’ve known him. I firmly believe he would not have called me if he hadn’t heard our radio ad. We were in front of our minds at that moment. That got us a deal that wasn’t directly tied to our KPIs on radio, but that’s because of radio.
That’s the deal that you picked up for $650,000 and it’s a $1 million-plus deal. You haven’t done the deal yet and I like to be conservative, but what type of profit do you think you’re going to pull off this deal?
It will make maybe $160,000 or something like that. I’ll say roughly $150,000.
You got another six-figure deal that you have pulled down for radio. Having two six-figure deals off-radio in ten months, that’s pretty sick to be able to do that. You are doing some cool things. I did want to give you an opportunity. You are doing some private lending as well. There’s a lot of people reading this that are trying to hold the tail, which we define as taking down a property for cash rather than wholesaling.
Maybe you’re looking for some transactional funding on a double close. Maybe on top of that, you need some money for some fix and flips. I do want to give you the opportunity because people are always asking me about money. If people want to talk to you about maybe partnering up and getting some private lending from you, where would they go to do that?
You could go to our website at RedDoorGuys.com. That’s our main branding that you hear on radio ads and other forms of marketing. Reach out to us. Our phone numbers and email addresses are on there. We’re more interested in doing more private lending or partnering on any deals, any multifamily deals that you have throughout the country. We’d be interested in hearing about that.
If you’re reading this, you’ve got a deal and you’re like, “I don’t know where I’m going to get money and I don’t want to go to a hard money lender,” the best thing I ever did was get out of hard money as quick as I could and move over into private. If you’re new to the game, let me explain that. Hard money is companies that have set themselves up. They’re not banks. Their whole goal is to lend to investors on investment deals, but they’re going to come in and charge you 12% to 14%. They’re going to go 2 to 4 points. Let me put it this way. It’s the most expensive money that you’re going to borrow.
When you move over to private, it’s not as expensive and you get some benefits. I don’t know how you set yours up, but I don’t charge any interest monthly with my private lending. What we do is take all of the interest and move it to the back end of the loan so that the investor doesn’t have to make those monthly payments. If you’re doing one deal, monthly payment’s not going to hurt you, but when you’re doing twenty deals and you’re having to stroke a check and interest check for twenty different properties, that becomes a bit of a monkey on your back to carry over time. I love that you guys are doing that as well.
I want to transition to TV. I bring Tony on. We talked about television. What we’re trying to elevate your thinking about mass media is the concept of force multiplier. A force multiplier is when you take two different things, put them together and when they combine, it’s not that they double but they multiply in 10X because that’s what a force multiplier does.
You are utilizing radio and television. I want to paint a picture of this. Imagine somebody in their house watching television. All of a sudden, Brian and Greg’s commercial pops on. They’re like, “These guys are legit. They have a commercial.” That same person later that day needs to make a run to the grocery store to pick up some stuff, get in their car, turn on the radio and then there’s Brian and Greg again on the radio.
Can you imagine what goes through that person’s mind at that moment? “These guys are everywhere. These guys are legit.” If you’re on radio and television at the same time, you are transcending to a level of marketing where people are elevating you to a level of celebrity status and expertise that you can’t get anywhere else. Talk to us a little bit about the fact of what you are starting to see that you’re forced multiplying the idea of combining both radio and television. Whoever wants to answer that Brian or Greg.
Greg can talk in a second about the types of calls. He’s the man when it comes to talking to sellers on the phone. He’s great at it. In terms of getting on TV, first of all, we wouldn’t have been able to even have that opportunity or think of that opportunity if it weren’t for you, Chris. I thank you for that. In radio, you’re going to start to max out at some point. We’ve talked about being on 8, 9 stations. It’s hard to groove past a certain point. TV was that natural flow. When we heard you and Tony talk all the time about how it’s very similar to radio and you get the same type of motivated calls, that was a no-brainer for us. Tony and his team are incredible to work with as well.
Getting that double brand recognition and force multiplier has been huge. We’re getting calls. People I know, friends of mine or in the business will call or text me. They’re like, “You guys are everywhere.” Our total game has changed and elevated to a new level where the respect level of other investors in the community is much higher than ever. I love that.
What I love is they probably think you’re spending $50,000, $100,000 a month. Little did they know how much you’re spending on it, which is beautiful. This is part of being a part of the Wholesaling Inc in each tribe. We want to keep some of this knowledge within the family itself. I’m curious, Greg, on your side. How similar are radio and TV from a lead quality standpoint? Are you seeing that there’s a mirror and match there of what you are getting in the sense of opportunity? You’re newer to TV but you are already starting to get some calls.
I was on vacation. We were also in Mexico for a week. I had a week on and then I went off to Mexico. We haven’t had a ton of calls, but we’ve gotten some calls and they’re very similar types of calls.
That’s the feedback I’ve gotten, Greg. It’s an incoming high-quality lead call. You’re not getting somebody that’s a tice kicker and somebody calling you to tell you that they hate you.
One thing Brian pointed out to me is when we make the call to ask them, “Are you calling us from the television ad or radio ad that you’ve heard?” It lets them know that we’re on both.
For everybody out there and we learned from you, we have separate numbers for each form of marketing, so we know. We’re doing that on purpose to get more credibility out there.
If you’ve been following the show and the interviews I do with Tony and his students, they’re equally crushing it over there on that side. What I hope that you’re taking away and what Tony and I want to challenge the tribe with are cold calling and direct mail are the fundamentals. They work. If you’re using them, continue to stick to them. We’re not telling you not to utilize those things, but at the same time, our responsibility at Wholesaling Inc is to elevate your thinking.
To get you to start playing at a bigger level and do some things that are going to move the needle faster and more in your organization. I’m under the deep belief that mass media does that way more than bandit signs and text blasting ever will. It’s going to put you in a position in your business with your brand and the ability to do bigger deals per profit. The respect level for you is going to go up within the town that you’re advertising. These things don’t occur with a lot of the other marketing channels out there.
I hope you hear from the heart that what we’re trying to do is get you to think bigger. When we’re telling you to think bigger, it’s not the price tag that’s coming behind, which is $50,000. These guys are advertising on eight radio stations and have been spending $5,190 per month. You’re having your cake and eating it too. That’s probably the best way that I can say it.
If you’re reading this, we always want to allow you to come in, check things out, see if the market’s available and, on top of that, if it’s a good fit for you. With radio, if you want to book a call and get on this road that Brian and Greg are on, go to WholesalingInc.com/REIRadio. On the TV side, if that’s something you’re interested in as well, you can go to RealEstateMastersTV.com/Chris.
We’re super excited to bring something that is changing the game in the real estate community because it got stagnant for a couple of years. Everybody’s doing the same thing. I’m hearing the same conversations about ringless voicemail, text blasting, email and cold calling. We’ve got something that we can talk about that’s bringing big rewards. Most importantly, there’s very little competition around it still. There are a lot of people out there that might not be a part of the tribe that is not thinking about radio and TV. It’s not even on their radar.
You as an audience and being part of Wholesaling Inc. are being the first to know that this is an option for you if it’s something that you’re interested in as well. Brian Rhodes, Greg Butler, hats off to you. You are doing an amazing job. One of the things is you follow instructions. These guys are teachable and coachable and then when they were given the tools, they came in, got after and executed it. I don’t care if we’re talking about TV, radio or anything else. Those are two great qualities to have. That’s why you are growing and scaling up the level that you are. I’m super proud of you. Thank you so much for coming to the show.
Thank you very much, Chris. You helped us and our business. We appreciate it much.
It brings me a lot of joy and fulfillment to hear you say that. As always, to the rest of you, we appreciate you joining us. Until next time. We will catch you soon when we add more value.
- Brian Rhodes
- Greg Butler
- Tony Javier – Past episode
About Chris Arnold
Chris Arnold is a 15 year Real Estate veteran who has closed over 2500 single family real estate transactions in the DFW metroplex. Chris is the founder of multiple companies that are managed by a US virtual team, which allows Chris to run his organizations while living in Tulum, Mexico full time. His passion for leaders has led to the creation of Multipliers brotherhood which serves the top 5% of real estate entrepreneurs out of the US. Most recently Chris has launched his REI Radio coaching program. This program is designed to teach real estate investors the marketing stream that everyone knows about but NO ONE is doing!