As you face more clients and explore new properties, questions are bound to arise for new wholesalers. But don’t fear because Wholesaling Inc. is here! Brent Bowers is back with Tracy Krol for another coaching session on the 11th episode of the Do or Die series. With Tracy’s first deal and more properties already on the contract, some newfound challenges (and opportunities) have made themselves known. Brent offers a guiding hand by answering all her questions related to pricing, advertising, working with realtors, JV opportunities, and more! A lot of learning is in store, not just for Tracy but for all beginner wholesalers out there. Join Tracy on her wholesaling journey and discover how she’s doing on her first deal!
Do or Die Series – Episode 11 – How to Wholesale Your First Piece of Land
This is the 11th episode of the Do or Die Series, a journey closer to Tracy Krol’s 90 days in doing wholesaling! Another week has passed, and a lot of differences have happened to Tracy’s wholesaling journey. Major breakthroughs are happening that make Tracy’s journey more exciting!
Welcome to Episode 11 of the Do or Die series, How to Wholesale Your First Piece of Land with resident land expert, Brent Bowers. There are some major breakthroughs in this episode. Exciting stuff is happening. You’re going to learn if Tracy has finally done it. Has she gotten that first deal? You’re also going to learn about partnering up with JVs and how to find the right ones to work with because there are a lot of people you absolutely don’t want to work with. They talk about finding the good ones and avoiding bad partners. Working with realtors. Does it make sense? How do you work with them? How do you even find realtors who are willing to work with you? Brent and Tracy go over all of that and so much more in this jam-packed episode. Let’s do it.
Rhino tribe, we got a wonderful, amazing episode for you. We got so much to talk about. Tracy, are you here with me?
How are you?
I am doing absolutely amazing. I have some good news.
We usually jump right into this and most people I’ve talked to, they want to know the meat and potatoes but I’ve been guilty of getting right into it but let’s keep getting right into it. You’re a busy lady. You’re at school at 7:30 in the morning, leaving at 5:30 PM. I don’t want to waste your time ever. Let’s jump right into the coaching.
The good news is I finally sold my first property and got a deal done so I feel relieved in that.
Proof of concept. That’s amazing. Congratulations.
Thank you. That one, I wholesaled it essentially because it was complicated. We talked about it the last time. There’s no way to get water out there to that piece of land. It was eleven acres. It would’ve been a huge deal but it was good to get it done and then this way I’m pumping money back in my business. It felt it good to go from start to finish and have it complete.
Let’s break it down. How did you get it and get it sold? Tell me how much money you’re going to make. The little things that way our readers can get some actual step-by-step and proof of concept. It wasn’t like a hit in the power ball on this one but it’s going to pay you money.
I had built a strong relationship with this guy and he trusted me. What I liked about that is when the numbers didn’t work, I was able to go back to him. At first, my offer was at $28,000 originally. It was pretty high but it was also because it was supposed to possibly go for $80,000 to $100,000 where it’s located. Once I got on the phone with the county, I found out it couldn’t get water and wasn’t buildable as it is. I had to go back to him. I try to get it as low as I could. I offered $5,000. He was like, “Absolutely not.”
We talked it through. He agreed on $20,000 and then he had this breaking point about sending back the contracts for $20,000. He wasn’t comfortable with it. He was saying something about his taxes and a whole long story. Honestly, he couldn’t follow it and he said he would sign right away if I could get $23,000. I took your advice, which was you’re like, “Get it under contract, do it, get it done, don’t worry about it and see what you can do with it.” I pumped it out to a bunch of different sites and got an offer for $25,000. It’s going to be tight. It’s close. It’s $2,000 but it’s still a deal. That’s awesome.
You’re going to make $2,000. This guy was super skeptical. You create a rapport. You serve this guy. I remember you telling me he wanted the contract changed. It sounds to me like he wasn’t our usual seller. It sounded like he was a pretty savvy dude. He bought this land for investment many years ago to build on and he’s a builder. I think you said Maryland. That’s the dealings we do when we come into someone that’s super savvy like they want things done their way but you are able to adjust it and pivot and still make $2,000. I call that a victory all day long. Give yourself a pat on the back.
Thank you. He was very skeptical and he was an old-school dude. He was saying things like, “Anytime I close on anything, I was sitting at a title company, signing papers. I don’t understand what’s happening here. You’re going to send someone to me.” Every step of the way, he kind of fought the process but getting on the phone with him anytime. He was texting me the whole time keeping me in the loop and I felt like he needed that little sense like, “I’m still here. This is not a scam. This is real. You’re going to get your money. You don’t have to worry about it.”
At the end of the day, you’re closing on this thing and this guy’s probably got friends that have land and he might even have more land. You never know. You’re building that bridge and I find that the more you serve people, the more people they send our way. This might be the door and the opening of a major opportunity coming your way. It’s awesome. You’ve got some more great news.
I did have a property that they called up and I was doing the script. It was going well and then she mentioned that there’s a house on the property. It wasn’t vacant land. I was like, “Hold on. Let’s pause for a second.” I got onto Facebook and I know there’s a lot of wholesaling groups and people out there. I made some connections and I found a wholesaler in the area because I didn’t want to get distracted and start worrying about trying to wholesale a house in the middle of trying to do my land business. There are JV opportunities out there where you give them that lead and you can join up. I talked with someone and she was like, “If I get any deal out of this, I’ll give you 50-50. We’ll split it.” I thought that was awesome.
A land miller is turning into a joint venture with a house wholesaler. That’s amazing. Get it under contract and a joint venture with this wholesaler, let that wholesaler run with it and split the profits with them.
That’s where we were at. They’ve been texting me all day to let me know where they’re at in the process. I’m not trying to spend too much energy on it. They’re running with it. I don’t have to do anything. At the end of it, if I get a check for any amount, it was no sweat of mine so that’s good.
You got your full-time job over here and you got your hustle over here and your joint venture partner, house wholesaler hustling. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s having other people help you out to your journey, get you where you want to be, a part of your journey and making money. You had another property on the contract that you already started advertising.
I’m learning the things that I’m strong at and the things that I’m needing help with. This was one of those situations. I realized that I feel really comfortable with being on the phone with the seller right off the jump because they’re calling you. As long as they’re not screaming at me, I’m happy to have that conversation and talk about their land. I take all my notes and research it. I don’t mind researching the property.
What ends up stifling me is the next steps because I do work at a school. I can’t make phone calls in the middle of the day. I’m around students. My obligation is to my full-time job between 7:30 to 5:00. I did call my little brother because he does his wholesaling but I found that on the backend, if he’s going to help me out, I’m not going to pay him an hourly rate. We’re going to share the deals that he’s helping me with. Some of those things that if I can’t do it at work, I’ll shoot him a text and say, “Look at this for me.” We can always share that but I feel like I’m going to get much more deals that way than having to worry that I’m sitting at work. I can’t call anyone and the counties. I can’t do anything while at work.
You have created a partnership with an amazing wholesaler already doing business and already has connections. You’re leveraging. If you give me a big enough stick, I can move the earth. That’s all you’re doing with that stick. Leverage is amazing in this business. I can’t tell you how many joint ventures and partnerships I’ve done with people and it’s gotten me so much further so good job. I love it.
I got this guy. He has 4 acres and it’s on Joshua Mountain in North Carolina. It’s a beautiful piece of property. It’s in a gated community. He is from New York. He’s made a ton of money in real estate. He’s sold up like 5 or 6 of his houses on Long Island. He’s trying to move to the Philippines. He said, “I got to get out of here. I got a fiancé. I’m so tired of having to deal with this land, the taxes and whatever.” It started out with I offered him $8,000 and talked him down to $6,000 and then he was like, “I’ll give it to you for $5,000 and if you could get it done in ten days, it could be $4,500.” He just kept going lower and lower. I have it under contract.
The more you serve people, the more people they send our way.
You are the most amazing negotiator. You let him talk and he kept talking himself down. This is this big real estate tycoon that most people would be nervous to call and this guy started talking himself down the whole time.
What helps is that I’m being very honest with everyone and the fact that I’m a teacher and it’s the truth. He did call me on my lunch break and so when I got on the phone with him, the first thing I said is, “I am a teacher so there’s a chance that I’m going to have to get off the phone quickly and call you back.” Right away, that opened up a twenty-minute conversation about, ‘You’re a teacher. What do you teach? Kids nowadays,'” and he was going on and on.
As we were negotiating, he was like, “You’re a teacher.” He’s a guy who doesn’t care about money. “I have enough of it. This is not going to make or break me, $1,000 here and $1,000 there.” It was nice to see that. This is something that I can alleviate this headache so he can move, get married, do whatever he wants to do and he doesn’t have to have this property in his mind anymore.
God bless his soul. You told him you were a teacher and you might have to get off the phone quickly and that opened up a whole other conversation. It was no longer about the land. It’s like, “Let me talk to my new friend, Tracy.” That’s what you became and now he’s in your corner. He wants to see you win. He doesn’t need the $4,500. I’m doing the math here. $4,500, do this in ten days, that’s $1,100 an acre on a beautiful mountain? Goodness gracious. Where’s the catch? What’s wrong with his land?
I called up the county. They said it’s buildable. There’s well water and septic available. There is a little stipulation. I called up about a realtor that had a property nearby that was going low. I asked and she said, “Some of the building restrictions and the HOA are strict.” There are a lot of rules that they have and a lot of people don’t like to necessarily follow them but there are houses there and the land that she was selling was only 4 acres for $9,000. She said it was because there was very little buildable space. It was steep and my property is not like that at all. She said, “Your property is not that steep. You should be able to get anywhere between $15,000 and $20,000.”
Are you going to use her to help you market it?
We’re talking about it. I marketed it. I was going to try to avoid using a realtor but I was going to get your feedback on that.
Think about it. You want to be omnipresent with your land listings. How many more people can you get to help you as far as leveraging this? Show me a business owner that struggles and I’ll show you one without a team. This is probably your newest team member. If you can get $15,000 to $20,000 for it, what could you get for if you only did say $3,000 down and $499 a month for 60 months? How fast could we get this sold with this realtor?
A lot of times, realtors will do it for a flat fee as well. They could be paid from the downpayment or pay the first two or three payments. However, you want to work it. I find that once you start calling a realtor for listings and if you feed them deals as well, they’re going to be also finding you deals. “This one down the street, you can get for $6,000.” A lot of times, when I work with other professionals in the industry, they send me deals as well. I would absolutely team up with this realtor. Let her know, “I’m a school teacher starting out. What can we do together?”
What questions would you ask? This is something that I wanted to ask you because it’s where I stumbled a little bit. It’s when I am talking about price and things like that, I don’t want to almost give too much. How do you figure out what they’re willing to do or if they’ve ever done something like this before?
I ask them, “Ms. Realtor, what do you think I can get for this? If we put this on the MLS, what do we have to have this at as a 30-day blowout price? Where do we need to price this thing at? $15,000? Awesome. What if I held financing then what could we get for it? I also want to do in that 30-day blowout price still. What if I held financing? What price would I need to be for a downpayment?”
They might have a buyer already on hand that’s looking for a piece of land for $4,500 down and $399 a month. You open up the door to way more people when you offer financing. I see it all the time. When we’re asking cash only for our land, it seems like that’s a limited amount of buyers. I would definitely team up with this lady. A lot of times, realtors will answer their phones all day long, 24/7. That’s the type of person I love on my team.
I’m making myself a note that will be my next contact to get this because I marketed it. I already got a few emails saying they are interested. That’s a good thing.
You already got buyers reaching out. Maybe sell it to one of those guys, get a downpayment and do it.
Other than that, 4 acres that I got under contract, I also have an interesting lead that I’ve been speaking with this woman and I gave the number to my brother, who is going to get in touch with her. I haven’t talked to him. I don’t know what happened but it was kind of cool because I answered her call. She was like, “I have some property down in Florida. I looked up the APN. It was showing it in the middle of the water. I was like, “I’m very confused.”
Having that conversation with her was very helpful because I was like, “What do about the property? I don’t understand. It looks like in the middle of the water.” She’s like, “It’s on a preserve. I actually have seven lots of land.” I was like, “That’s cool.” I looked at it and there are houses all around there and it’s right on the water. It’s pretty but she does want $75,000 for all seven, which I’m not sure yet if that’s a good price. I have to do a little bit more research.
Seven lots in Florida waterfront for $75,000. It’s a good price. Going off of my gut here, seven lots. Do you how big their lots are?
I don’t know why on my sheet, it doesn’t say the acreage, which is weird because all my other numbers are there but now one is missing. I don’t know why so I’m hoping to get that information from her. I have Daniel reaching out.
I’m excited about this one. This one sounds huge. That’s awesome. Here’s what I’ve seen. I’ve done this in the past and I’ve seen other people do this. A lot of times, you can do a onesy. It’s also called a takedown. Let me blast one of the lots out and see if we can sell it and go from there. You figure out that one of those lots sells for $35,000. You got a deal when you’re buying all seven for $75,000.
I’ve found that sellers are willing to let you dip your toe in the water or do a takedown if you explain to them what’s going on. “I’m out of state, a school teacher and still new to this. I want to see if I can sell one of these lots. Let’s do one but I want to lock in the remaining six at the $75,000 price.” One guy did say no but usually, people are pretty open to it and that’s fine. That’s why you’re getting that deal probably is because you’re going to buy all seven from her. I would do all your due diligence, get it done pretty quickly and keep moving with that one.
I did see that right close to there were lots that looked similar sized and they were going for $28,000. I wanted to do a little bit more research as I got home. I’m going to look it up and make sure I get those numbers more accurate but that’s going to be a big one too. I’m feeling confident about it.
Let me make sure $28,000 a lot so about $196,000 worth of land. You’re getting it for $75,000. Those numbers work out pretty well. It’s 261% ROI. There you go. Use the script and get her a little lower.
Having other people help you out on your journey gets you where you want to be.
I do think I’m going to be able to get her lower, to be honest. I was thinking more like $60,000 and we danced around that number but then I was like, “I need to do my due diligence and make sure that this number is even.” She was hemming and hawing about it but I got Daniel on it so that helps too.
Do you know what I love about an anchor? It starts to pull people down and pulls in your way. They always start with their kite, which is a high price and you give them your anchor and do you know what an anchor does with a kite? It pulls it down. If you’re at $60,000 and she’s a $75,000, I’m pretty confident you could be close to $65,000 as far as the purchase price. What’s next? You had a whole list of laundry.
I still have calls coming in. I am sending my next mailer. I haven’t done one because I had so many and got overwhelmed. I needed to slow down a little bit but I am going to be setting up another mailer to go out this week. I would like it to be about 300 to 400 piece mailer but I still have a lot of leads that I called them all back, left messages and we’ll see. Most of them are not what I would consider hot leads because they have already said that my price was way off and they’re not willing to renegotiate but I still gave them calls and we’ll see if anything comes out of that. I will say that sometimes someone sits on that mailer and I’ve been getting people calling from my very first mailer. I’m like, “This is awesome.”
That’s not bad. We see that a lot. I don’t know if I was you telling you about this but I had a friend that got a call from a mailer he did in 2004. This guy has been doing this a long time, way longer than me but in 2004, you’ve got to be kidding me. What had happened was he had gotten that land offer letter and stuck it in the file with that land, had passed away and left the land to his children. His children found the file with the land information and the land offer letter and said, “This offer from 2004, is it still good?” He’s like, “What property is this?” They gave him the assessor’s parcel number. He looked it up and he’s like, “You bet your butt it’s still good.” He got a smoking hot deal from a price from 2004. I’m not sure how in the world someone keeps a file that long but it happens. Next mailer going out. What is the next step? What do you need help with?
I got one more thing for you. I am 100% sure that I have this smoking hot deal, my very first baby here because it is my beautiful waterfall, right down the road, gorgeous property. There is a very similar lot on the same block selling for $25,000 so I priced mine at $21,000. I put it out anywhere I could possibly put it out. On Facebook, I did twenty groups so I didn’t get flagged. I got a lot of responses. I also did Craigslist. I got a lot of responses on that. I put it everywhere I possibly could on the free sites. I can’t even tell you. I would say that I’ve gotten maybe about 25 to 30 people interested. I’m answering all their questions and providing the website that has the map on it. They can look at all the things but I feel like it’s a lot of wasted energy because it tends to go nowhere.
People are like, “I love this. This looks so awesome.” I’m like, “Are you interested? Are you going to put an offer?” They fall flat. I lowered the price from $21,000. Now it’s at $18,000, which is low and I’m willing to go lower if I need to but I wanted your expert opinion on this because I’m losing my mind on what you do when you have a nice piece of property. There are no problems. It’s buildable, amazing and in this community that is gorgeous. That’s where I’m at.
First off, keep the faith. That’s a great number of responses. Once I see that many, generally, the buyers are telling me something. What are they telling you? Who has said the same thing more than once? Is it a downpayment issue, monthly payment issue, a question as far as access or buildable? Where’s the disconnect? Why are people not pulling the trigger?
I would say the HOA that they feel like it’s too high.
That’s a very good observation. I started out in an HOA area out in Colorado at a place called Forbes Park and come to find out, supposedly, I talked to another real estate coach and they’re like, “You committed land suicide. You bought in the HOA.” I was like, “This guy’s wrong. I love this land. It’s beautiful.” What I did was I started selling the HOA. It’s a landowner’s association. When you call these guys, they’ll plow the road all the way to your land. They’ve got a business center that’s got internet and tables. They’ve got a water point to fill up your RV. They’ve got a dump station to dump your gray water and your black water. They do this potluck every single quarter so it’s an amazing community.
I started selling the roads, business center and RVs. It was a paradigm shift for people. They’re like, ” $240 a year, that’s so worth it for the internet, dump station, water fill point and you name it.” It’s white-glove service in this gated community. You call them before you go in and they’ll plow the snow all the way to your land. Figure out all the stuff that their HOA offers and sell it. What do they charge per year or per month?
It’s close to $300 a month.
It sounds like there’s a lot of amenities.
It’s got a golf course on it, pools and tennis courts. It’s the one with the four lakes and has waterfalls. It’s gorgeous.
Lakes and hiking trails.
You need to sell this land to golfers, people that play tennis, people that want to do stand-up paddleboards. Find groups, hiking, hikers. These are the groups you want to be in to sell this land. You’re selling it to a golfer, to people that want to swim and train their children in this pool and a tennis player. This is a very small niche but you sell someone that likes doing this stuff a piece of land in this area. This is their future home.
You might be in the wrong spots. If we’re talking buy-sell groups, a lot of times people are pretty cheap in those groups. They’re looking for a deal. You might not be getting in front of golfers and tennis players and the stand-up kayak people. How do you find them? Find the Facebook groups that those guys are in. That’s my first recommendation and sell everything that they offer in this HOA. I wouldn’t even mention the HOA fee until they ask. I would sell everything they offer in there. I wouldn’t even talk about that. Definitely disclose it when you sell it but you want to make sure you’re offering all those benefits.
When it comes to the price, when do you feel like, “I have to start lowering or thinking that my price is off,” even though I don’t think my price is off?
It’s usually the downpayment. For me and for our buyers, it seems like it’s the amount of downpayment that slows people down.
If I adjust the downpayment, it’s almost better than adjusting the whole price. Hopefully, I will get this one sold here because I like to have a second one under my belt and now I feel like I have these other two in the wings and I’m feeling good about all of this.
I would also reach out to builders and developers in this area. Anybody that’s building a house, spec home builder, developer, look at meetups in this area in that county and talk to them about it as well because this sounds like a great build and a lot that they could put an actual spec home of some sort and same thing for your 4.5 acres out there and on the mountain in North Carolina. You’ve got to get in front of the right buyers. Sometimes it might be even a builder and your $21,000 price is going to be nothing to these guys. If the houses are selling, what are they selling for in that area on average?
There are houses that go all the way up to $1 million. The lowest ones are about $200,000.
Show me a business owner that struggles, and I’ll show you one without a team.
Let’s go off the lowest price, $200,000 and a builder usually pays about 20 cents on the dollar of what that house would sell for brand new for the land. $200,000 times 20%, that builder can pay almost $40,000 for that lot. I would start calling those guys as well. You got to talk to the right person. Hold the faith and keep the faith. You’ve had so many responses and much interest in that thing. It’s going to happen. You’re going to be like, “There it is,” type of thing. It’s a little redundant answering those questions but that’s why I like to get help. The people that answer all those questions love doing it. That’s their personality type and they love their jobs. I’m like, “I’ve answered the same question three times. I’m done.” Sometimes I find that I’m not the best person for landfills and I’m not. That’s why I got help with it.
Other than that, I’m rocking and rolling, doing my leads and getting things done. I love it.
You got a lot of wins. You got the first one wholesaled out. You’re going to make some money on that one. I’ve counted that you got two partnerships helping you. You found a house deal with a land mailer. You’ve got that person helping you out and you got your brother now. I see a lot of things happening. Hopefully, by the next time we talk, you got your cash in your pocket from the Colorado land that you wholesaled.
Get to the right people as far as this waterfront lot. Maybe lower your downpayment and sometimes you just have to extend the term. That’s okay. I’ll take payments for 6 years rather than 5. I don’t care because at the end of the day, I’m doing a volume game. I don’t care what I get for the land as long as it’s for profit and it’s coming in my bank account each month.
I’m on it.
Any other questions?
No other questions for now.
I’m happy to hear everything’s going well. I’ll talk to you soon.
Thank you, Brent.
That concludes another exciting episode and with one more episode to round out that 90 days. Be sure to come back for the next episode, where we will learn if Tracy has gotten that first check-in her hands or maybe she’s even gotten more than one. You’ll have to come back to find out. We’ll see you in the next episode.
About Brent Bowers
Brent Bowers is an investor and coach with a focus on buying and selling vacant land. As an Army Officer with over 8 years of service, Brent was spending a great deal of time away from his family, and he knew he needed to make some changes in order to be more present with his wife and children. In a short period of time, Brent was able to expand his business, hire a team, and (most importantly) spend quality time with his family while still working hard and helping others.
While Brent invests in many different types of real estate, his favorite investment strategy deals with buying and selling vacant land, and he enjoys sharing his expertise in this area with his coaching clients. Brent chooses to live his life based on Bob Burg’s quote, “Your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people’s interests first.” He is passionate about helping other people find success in real estate investing, particularly in land investments.