“It takes the same energy to think small as it does to think big. So dream big and think bigger.” That is a quote by Daymond John and you can apply it to just about anything in life. Ken and John Fothergill have applied this quote and they are locking up deals and hitting big profits. Brent Daniels brings the duo to the show to talk about their wholesaling story.
Learn how to have fun even when things get rough. And learn how they do business together as brothers, and how they make it work. Listen to their story and their unique properties to pick up ideas for your wholesaling business. It is time to listen to this episode.
Think Bigger – The Missing Formula To Doing BIGGER DEALS! With Ken And John Fothergill
“It takes the same energy to think small as it does to think big. So dream big and think bigger.” — Daymond John. This quote perfectly embodies the guests who are big thinkers when it comes to doing big wholesaling deals.
Let’s break open this with a quote, and this is going to blend perfectly into the conversation we’re going to have on this episode. “It takes the same energy to think small as it does to think big. Dream big and think bigger.” That’s by Shark Tank, Daymond John. That is perfect because the guys that I’m interviewing are thinking big. They prove their big thinking by doing big deals. That is why it is my absolute pleasure to introduce from Southern New Hampshire, Ken and John Fothergill. Say hello to everybody.
How’s it going on TTP?
Tell us a little bit about you before we go in and start breaking down some of your deals that you’ve got cooking. You’ve got one that closed, that was phenomenal and it’s a great breakdown. It’s going to help out a lot of people walking through everything that was going on with that deal, but also, you’ve got some that are pending right now that are going to be closing that are massive. Who are you? Tell us your story.
We were brothers, four years apart. I’ve always been in sales. I always tried to start things on the side and was always interested in real estate. I had my last job, I moved down to Austin, Texas, where I’m working for a medical device company doing a lot of their trade shows and running operations and doing sales training and just like a lot of people, COVID happened. With trade shows, a lot of it is crowd, 20,000 people. It stopped. After taking a little bit of time off and rethinking my life, I was talking to my brother, which again, we’ve been looking into real estate for quite a bit now. We started looking into how we’re going to build a rental portfolio.
What we found out was what better way to build your rental portfolio than a store around deal and be the guy at the real estate meetups that has the deals and then be able to pick and choose. We started reading some books on wholesaling starting to get the idea, listening to the show. It all led to now, I’m not listening to the radio anymore. It’s constantly listening to this show. Finally, we decided to take a leap of TTP and I got my money back really quick, let’s put it that way. It became almost like an obsession. It was an exciting feeling knowing that I have a chance of financial freedom and also being able to do it with my brother and having a ton of fun doing it. That’s how I got into doing this.
People find it underrated to listen to an incredible podcast, Audibles or whatever it is. Getting that in your mind every single day, all of a sudden, you start seeing opportunities that you didn’t see before. I remember listening to this podcast, Wholesaling Inc, looking on iTunes finding and starting to listen to it. I was listening to Tom Krol and I was like, “Oh my gosh.” By the time I took a breath, I would listen to fifteen episodes. I was like, “What is going on here?” I started implementing and then all of a sudden, all the things that they were talking about I was doing, and then all of a sudden, it was successful. It’s a wonderful coaching point that says, “Stop all the other garbage from getting into your head and pour in the good stuff that is going to be productive and feed that professional obsession that you have for being an entrepreneur, for going out there and being proactive and finding opportunities.”
The other thing Ken is, and you hit it right on the head. Do you want to build a robust rental portfolio where you get a ton of equity from day one? Source the deal. Don’t wait for a realtor to send it to you, don’t wait for it to some neighbors selling and you walk by with your dog and you chat it up. Go out and attack it and find those deals. That’s perfect. How did you transition professionally? Because John, you’re still in the mix, you’re still in your 9:00 to 5:00. You’re making that transition now. What’s your plan? What is your work balance with wholesaling real estate and working full time?
Do a lot of research before you do anything so you don’t waste your time.
When it comes down to it, working full time and doing the wholesaling on the side, it comes down to the importance of blocking time off. Having a strict schedule every week that’s dedicated to your craft. I’m not going to be able to dedicate 40, 50, 60 hours a week like Kenny is, but I do find time every day to make time in my schedule to do what I have to do to support Kenny build this business. What it comes down to is time management and being consistent about it. Blocking your time off and making sure that I’m available for him when he needs me is super important. If you’re picking random times like, “I’m going to make calls on Wednesday and a couple of days go by I’m going to make calls on this day.” If you don’t have a plan or time blocks, you’re going to find yourself getting lost and you’re going to lose a lot of productivity that way. I’ve built it off of my work schedule, whereas I blocked off times every day where I can dedicate 100% of my focus to the real estate side of things.
How do you work together? Have you thought when you are both going full-time at this, are you going to split the roles? I think that this is important to talk about because there’s a lot of married couples and family that’s working together. There are people that have partnerships that are working together that either split up the roles or both do all of it, and see how it shakes up. How are you doing it? On top of that, how do you do it successfully so that you don’t kill each other and so that you keep a good relationship moving forward? That’s the most important thing. How are you divvying up the business and splitting it up?
I’ll be honest, we have been asked this. It’s funny because me and him, we dashed heads a lot when we were younger. We were still close, but we’re brothers. It’s always that competition thing. It’s always, “I know you can do this, but I’m going to do this better.” We’re very different people. He’s more of the go-getter, the more dominant in situations where I’m more of the analyzer. It’s a very healthy yin and yang type of thing, which that’s why we have that light go off where we’re like, “We can be dangerous because we fill each other’s voids.” For those people that want to do a partnership with a sibling, wife husband, or even a friend is right down in the beginning, what do you guys want to accomplish and what you’re doing it for? Always come back to your roots. We’re doing this so that our own lives for our financial freedom, but we also want to take a lot of people with us.
We want to be able to give people situations where they can be successful and be able to make a difference or be able to do the things that we want to do in life. We have to sometimes pluck ourselves out, look at it from a third-person point of view if we have a disagreement. We came into this to make money and make ripples out there, but have fun and basically have our lives be interesting and worth living. Sometimes, you got to bring it back a little bit. Pump the brakes, put it in neutral, talk, and communicate, and practice that because if you don’t, think it can go awry and you can have disagreements which could break the bond. I feel like we’ve gotten closer since we’ve done this and we complement each other well.
What does the family think?
At first, they were like, “You are doing what?” They didn’t know what we were doing. Our mom’s been at the same job for 33 years. She was like, “What are you doing?” She didn’t understand it. She was a little bit timid at first. Our dad he’s been an entrepreneur before, so he understood a little bit more. It was getting to understand what our goal and our end goal is and showing them that this is our best possible path to where we want to be. We’re not going to get to where we want to be working for somebody else. It was a little bit of a shock to them at first, but once they saw our first check, they’re like, “That makes sense.” It was a little bit of a shock to him at first, but now that we’ve had some success, they have come around and are starting to see what we see.
When did you guys officially start making the calls and get going? I don’t feel like it was that long ago.
It wasn’t that long ago. We joined TTP beginning of November. I started getting into it and I didn’t go hard into it until after the holidays. I had some things planned, some trips, the holidays were around. December was a little bit different, but I would say Jim is the one when I was like, “I’m blocked. Let’s go.” I wake up and do my yoga. Get up, make my breakfast. Started that day early and since I’ve done that, it’s changed and things are starting to come through now. Those things that I started doing back in the Q4 of 2020, now I’m starting to get calls back and I’m starting to get people that are starting to have conversations with me. It’s sticking to it. We haven’t been doing this too long and one deal on the book, there’s one now under contract and one hopefully under contract on 23rd, which I should be a good one.
The beautiful thing about this process is I’ve seen it since the beginning. You were on every other Tuesday in the TTP program. We do a live support call and Ken was like, “Can you comp this deal?” I was like, “Yes, let’s take a look at this thing.” He goes, “It’s a little bit different. We’re comping this live. I’ve screen sharing it in front of everybody.” I was like, “What does he want for this?” I was like, “You better lock this up, Ken. Get off this call, drive there, and lock it up.” That’s what you did, you locked it up. Let’s talk about this deal. Did you get this lead from calling him?
It was a driving lead. I spend a lot of my time calling, but this one luckily, it was more of a driving-for-dollars one. I did make a call, but they ended up responding to one of the postcards I was using DealMachine. I don’t know if I can name drop there. They responded back to our postcard. They had mentioned that the place had been vacant for fifteen years, which definitely looked like it. They’ve been paying taxes on something, but they’re not generating income from it. The grass was four feet tall. There was an old sailboat in there. It was a very niche property. In one of the parts of the building, there were vines crawling through the actual thing.
We went over and I had taken all my pictures, have my conversations with them, but the main thing was, I asked them, “Why are you looking to get rid of this?” I had the feeling, but you want to go on a servant’s heart, you want to go in, not like, “What can I make here? Can we make this deal?” It was more about tuning in to them and this gentleman. We talked a lot. We had a lot of good conversations and that barrier came down and then we started talking about price. I asked him like, “That’s your situation?” He’s like, “Yes, I get that.” I’m reaffirming everything with them. I go, “What you’re looking apart with this for?” He had mentioned about $275,000. I had done my research beforehand. That’s one thing I also do recommend. Do a lot of research on it before you go to your appointments. Don’t waste your time.
It takes the same energy to think small as it does to think big. So dream big and think bigger.
When you that, what do you mean? Expand on that to help people out. What do you mean by research? Because people can go down a rabbit hole with research before they even pre-qualify them. You would already pre-qualified. Let’s set this straight. You’ve heard me say this a million times. I apologize, but this is for people that don’t know. Every single lead you have, pre-qualified them based on the four pillars, which is the condition of the property, timeline to sell, motivation to sell, and their price. If you figure those four things out, which Ken already knew, he was talking to this guy, the condition is empty, it’s been beaten up, there are vines in it, it’s nobody’s land, it’s uninhabitable, they want to sell it now. Their timeline’s shortened. They’re getting to the part process, where fifteen years vacant. Finally, they’re ready to sell this thing and their motivation is it’s a burden to them. Are they paying property taxes?
Yeah, in a nice area. I can imagine.
He gave you the price, $275,000? Just so that I don’t get you off track because I got on my soapbox there, what do you do research-wise to make sure that you understand enough about this property to feel confident?
I go by CTMP, condition, timeline, motivation price for sure. I write that down every phone call. I do CTMP and then right next to it, we this one is. Make sure to deal before you get in your car and drive there. That’s time that you could be spending on the phone. Beyond that, once I had good conversations with them, I looked at everything that I possibly could surrounding homes, comps trying to figure out my ARV. Hit those four points, but that’s key. You waste a lot of time if you don’t get those. Make sure you get those before you guys go out on those appointments.
During this time of COVID, did you meet face to face with him, was it all over the phone, how did that work?
Most of it was over the phone, but when I went there, I get out of the car with a mask. I usually judge it based on them. I don’t get near them. I stay six feet apart. I try and keep it safe no matter what. Even if they’re comfortable with not having a mask on, I still keep mine on just in case because it shows that you’re looking out for their best interest too. You’re looking out for their health.
You meet with them and you’re doing a lot on the phone. You meet, did you give them $275,000?
No, I said, “Is $275,000 the lowest you can go?” He said no. I go, “What are you comfortable with parting ways with us for?” He mentioned $250,000. I didn’t even mention any numbers. It was all asking him questions. We got him down to $250,000, which I thought was fair. It was in the good part of the window of our max offer. It was plenty good. We found out that ARV was around four $430,000. We looked at $250,000 as pretty good considering I needed $100,000 worth of work.
That’s what you locked it up for?
You lock it up for $250,000. This property is vacant, does he give you the key to the door, do you put a lockbox on it? How do you get access to this thing? How did you take pictures? How do you get your buyers in there?
What we did was we got a lockbox for it and made sure we had the keys. It was a residential commercial with a big garage on it. We needed four keys, but we had that lockbox there, we set up two showings, which also had to be COVID friendly. You had to let one person go through. Luckily, the traffic came nicely for us to load very nicely. There wasn’t one rush of a lot of people. That’s how we did that.
When you open anyway, what did you do? Did you email blast it to your buyers? Did you pick up the phone and call people? This one was a little bit wacky because it was a residential commercial. What was he running, an old shop or something, an old auto shop with a house, old school?
You know old gaming company out of there, there’s old gaming company equipment everywhere. My brother mentioned it was on commercial residential. By having that commercial piece, it made it more of a little bit of a niche property where it’s not just your everyday home buyers is going to look at something that has a big commercial property on the side of it. In this situation, what we did is leveraged the local real estate agent in our area who runs a lot of real estate group meetups. He’s tied in with the investor community down here. He specializes in house hackers helping people buy multifamily houses.
What we did is leveraged his book of business to help move this property because we knew something like this is going to take a little bit extra and us being new in the industry not having a cash buyer list. That’s 5,000 people that I know a lot of the wholesalers that have been doing it for a lot of years. You’re looking at 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 people. We weren’t there yet. With this property, we leveraged a local real estate agent to get to his network and we’re able to find a buyer through him. Real estate agents do play a part in this, believe it or not. They can be great referrals and they can be great contacts to have. Some people on wholesaling may think that they’re competitors in a way I think, but we lean on them in certain situations. For comps and for this property to find land buyers, but there’s a lot of ways that you can leverage your local real estate agent market in wholesaling.
Let me ask you this, John, how does the agent get paid in this situation?
In this situation, there was enough here where we were able to give them a small percentage of what we made. We looked at it this way. He was able to move it up for us quicker than we would be able to move it. With it being a niche property, we knew that it was very important for us to find a buyer because there’s not going to be a lot of them that are looking for a property like this. For us, it was a small fee to pay to make sure that this deal closed. Even though we did have to pay them a referral fee, what we netted is a small price to pay.
He earned a commission on the sale, which is fantastic, and now you’ve got a fantastic relationship with him. A lot of people when we’re starting out in this business, I certainly was. I got a license because I was afraid to talk to realtors. I was young. I was 22. I was like, “Their faces are on billboards and bus benches. They’re so fancy and they’re in magazines.” Then you realize they pay for that. They want business.
They are 100% working on commission and they want people like us out there hustling finding deals because they have people that are ready to buy. They just don’t want to go and find the deals. They’re doing other things. They’re listing homes and showing homes and all these other things. Do not be afraid of approaching real estate agents every single day or week or whatever it is, add them to your list. I’m telling you our biggest deals always come from an agent bringing a buyer. That is a great tip. You blocked it up at $250,000, what did you sell it for?
We ended up selling it for $295,000 and less the closing costs and the fee for a real estate agent. We walked away with $38,415.50.
Starting in November, now, here we are in $38,500. We are rocking and rolling fantastic. There was a bigger deal, you split it with a real estate agent, which is smart. You said one thing there though, closing costs. Do you close on this?
This wasn’t an assignment, but there were some extra fees from the title company that we had to cover.
What do you have pending now?
We have one in Western Massachusetts. That one, we put under contract Friday. I got my butt out there in Western Mas and signed that on Friday. We’re just starting. We push that now and have conversations with potential cash buyers. We also have one that I’m hoping will close on the 23rd. It’s an old parsonage. For those of you who don’t know what a parsonage, I didn’t either, but it’s basically a normal house. It’s where pastors usually stayed next to the church. We basically found that one I had reached out through a call. He goes, “You’re interested in the parsonage?” “I didn’t know what that was yet.” I quickly Google it, then we had more conversation and again, CTMP condition, it’s gutted. It’s a four-bedroom, one-bath. It’s funny because Zillow and Trulia came up with an estimate of $65,000, which I know that in those areas that don’t have a lot of population, the algorithm can be a little off, which it was. I ended up looking at it and I’m like, “There are houses right across the street.”
That was the next call we did. We pulled that one up. I was like, “This one’s bananas.”
That one was a big one. We threw a low offer and I’m hoping that he takes it, but going back to the one that we put under contract, it’s in Western Mass. It’s a beautiful neighborhood right next to a high-end school department. It was a flip that couldn’t get finished, so the guy called us. His stress was his life path and he’s getting a little bit older. He had stuff that happened where he couldn’t finish that and it’s understandable. We dive deep with them into, “How can we help you?” You’re going to make more deals if you’re focusing on the person and their pains because if you build their trust, it shows you how to handle the situation. It was tough on him, but I was there for him.
Don’t wait for deals to happen. Go out and find those deals and attack them.
I talked with them and it almost came to the point where he’s like, “I want to go with you.” It was almost a friend thing. He was great. I go, “Let’s see if we can get this off your mind quickly as possible.” It’s a great property. ARV was a low $200,000, and I put in the offer at $85,000. I’m pretty sure renovation costs are going to be anywhere from $60,000. You can go up to $85,000 because it does have a whole top floor that could be a whole master bedroom. You could do a lot with this property.
The interesting thing about your market is the rehab costs are so much more because the houses were built in the 1600s.
Yeah, it’s a different game up here.
John, as the driver, what do the next five years look like? What’s the vision?
Over the next five years, we already have goals that we have set for this year of how many transactions we want to do, how much revenue we want to take in, and how many rentals we want to buy. In five years, we would like to be at a point where we have a team of people that are doing more of the day-to-day stuff. There’s always that adage of we can either work in your business or on your business. In five years, like Kenny said earlier, our end goal is to have passive income and to have a rental portfolio. We would like to have it where we have a wholesale operation that is feeding our rental portfolio deals and still profitable.
We want to be at a point where we’re managing all of our portfolios, whether it be the wholesaling part, the rehabs, rentals. We’re hoping to be in a position where we’re not doing so much of the day-to-day and we’re doing more of the big picture like “where are we going to go from here” kind of decisions. That’s where I would like to see us in five years. A year from now, I didn’t think I wouldn’t be sitting here with you. It’s hard to forecast, but here we are.
How do people get ahold of you? What’s the best way to reach out if they want to squat up and connect with you in your markets or say, “Congratulations.” How do people get ahold of you?
Feel free to reach out to me. I’m happy to help as I am still that person sometimes. I know a lot of people can help you. You can reach me at Kenny Fothergill on Facebook. I also am on Instagram @KGFothergill3. My email is KGFothergill3@Gmail.com.
You are cracking. I’m excited. I love when you pop on to the support calls because it’s like, “What are they going to find next? It’s going to be a massive deal.” They didn’t even tell you they’re looking to lock up a deal for $50,000, that’s worth $250,000, $300,000, it’s going to be bananas. You better lock that up. The next time I see you coming up this next Tuesday, they better be locked up. You’re supposed to be locked up on the 23rd. You are phenomenal. Thank you for jumping on here. A resource that they gave you, everybody out there reading, they’re driving for dollars, the app is DealMachine, DealMachine.com. Make sure that you use the coupon code TTP. It’s the biggest discount that they give. We work hard to get you guys the absolute best discounts or perks that we can with some of these resources and tools that everybody uses.
In the app, you can set up automatic postcards and mailers that go out and that’s how they got their first deal. Check that out. For anybody interested in joining the most proactive group in real estate investing it is the TTP Program, the TTP family. Go to WholesalingInc.com/TTP, scroll down, check out the testimonials, check out the success, check out what it’s about. If it feels good in your gut, sign up for a call. I look forward to working with you personally. That’s it. Great show. Thank you for being on here all the way from Southern New Hampshire Nashua. Everybody out there reading, I encourage you as always, to talk to people. Until next time. I love you. See you.
- TTP Cold Calling Training
- John Fothergill – Instagram
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- Kenny Fothergill – Instagram
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About Brent Daniels
Brent Daniels is a multi-million dollar wholesaler in Phoenix, Arizona… and the creator of “Talk To People” — a simple, low cost, and incredibly effective telephone marketing program…
Also known as “TTP”… it helps wholesalers do more, bigger, and more profitable deals by replacing traditional paid advertising (postcards, yellow letters, bandit signs, and PPC) with being proactive and taking action every single day!
Brent has personally coached over 1,000 wholesalers enrolled in his “Cold Calling Mastery” training, and helped 10,000’s of others who listen to him host the Wholesaling Inc. podcast, watch his YouTube channel, and attend his live events…
A natural leader, Brent combines his passion for helping others with his high energy, “don’t-wait-around-for-business” attitude to help you CRUSH your wholesaling goals as quickly and easily as possible!