Posted on: March 10, 2021

It is everybody’s dream to quit the nine to five and have the limitless income to enjoy more money and time. But how to do it right? When is the right timing? What indicators will tell if it is the right time to do it? Well, get answers to those questions from those who did it first hand. Today’s guests are seasoned business partners approaching a thousand deals, Brian Rhodes and Greg Butler. They will take us back to the days when they were still working the nine to five and suddenly saw the green light to quit and pursue real estate investing full-time.

Brian and Greg are products of the REI Radio Coaching Program. They contracted four deals and closed three in just 90 days of setting up their first radio ad! No one can hold them back as they are now expanding their radio stations into three to reach their milestone of making 1,000 deals!

In this episode, Brian and Greg will talk about the DOs and DON’Ts in knowing when to walk out, drop everything, and quit working nine to five to do real estate investing full time to achieve their goals. Aside from that, they will talk about what they did with radio and what results they have in using it.

Do not miss this opportunity to know how Brian and Greg got their break from the rat race! Listen and enjoy!

Key Takeaways

  • How Brian and Greg became partners and their real estate journey
  • Their aha moment to quit and do creative real estate investing full time
  • The principle of making sure that the cash register rings early and often
  • Brian’s lessons from walking out from working nine to five too soon
  • What attracted them to do radio as a marketing channel option
  • The process of setting up their first radio station
  • On starting and expanding their radio stations
  • What Greg and Brian like best about the radio and recommending it for the newbies
  • How their first deal went
  • Brian’s opinion about the value of using the radio

RESOURCES:

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Episode Transcription

Chris Arnold:
Welcome to the Wholesaling Inc podcast. I’m your host, Chris Arnold. As always, super excited that you’re with us today. And you know me, I get down to the bottom line, what are you going to get from this podcast? It’s going to be too full. We’re going to talk with two business partners today. I’m really excited for you to hear their story. These guys are kind of approaching a 1,000 deals, but we’re going all the way back to when they were working the 9:00 to 5:00. And the question is, what are the do’s and don’ts of knowing when to walk in your boss’s office, drop the mic and go, “I’m out. I’m doing this thing full time.”We have a lot of investors, that’s your dream. Can’t wait to quit the 9:00 to 5:00 that we’re doing. Get out of that rat race and of course do what you’re passionate about and that’s real estate investment full time.
And secondly, we’re going to talk about radio. These guys picked up radio. These guys are seasoned and so you’re going to hear what they’ve done with it and the results that they’ve seen. Let’s hop in, Brian Rhodes, Greg Butler. Welcome to the show. Glad to have you guys.

Greg Butler:
Well thank you. Appreciate it.

Brian Rhodes:
Thanks Chris.

Chris Arnold:
Yes sir. All right. Let’s hang out. Here’s a question, Brian, how long have you and Greg been business partners?

Brian Rhodes:
We formed our first LLC and did our first deal in 2003 so a few years ago.

Chris Arnold:
Yeah, you guys, you said a few years, you guys got some history. Now this is what’s funny about your story. You guys started working the same job for the same company. Did I get it right? Literally on the same day?

Greg Butler:
That’s correct. Okay.

Chris Arnold:
And then how many years later did you guys walk in on the same day and go, “I quit.”

Brian Rhodes:
Seven years later. That wasn’t our plan, but that’s how it turned out.

Chris Arnold:
That’s unbelievable. I love to set up for the story, two guys, two friends, which you guys knew each other. I think you said you knew each other from college, correct?

Greg Butler:
Correct.

Brian Rhodes:
That’s right.

Chris Arnold:
Worked for the same company with the ambition to get out of this company and literally did it seven years later and walked in and quit on the same day. I love this. I got a question, Greg, you and I were talking about kind of the do’s and don’ts of knowing when to quit. And one of the things you talked about was you were looking at the deals that you had in the pipeline. And a lot of them were fix and quit, which meant they were going to be a longer term payout. But now that you look back, you go, hey, it might’ve been why that we had some wholesale deals that would given us that fast nickel versus the slow dime that we’re going to get on the flip. Talk a little bit about oh, that was an aha moment. Want to make sure that the listeners take a look at what’s in the pipeline.

Greg Butler:
Brian and I first started at our job, at our J-O-Bs, we didn’t anticipate being there more than probably a year or so at that, but we didn’t really know what the vehicle was that was going to get us to where we could leave our job. But when we realized it was real estate investing, Brian actually found it through, not podcasts back then, but through learning about creative real estate investing. He kept telling me about it. And finally, I listened to some CDs of some Ron LeGrand CDs. And when I listened to it, I was just blown away. We started buying properties, as many as we could buy. We had a line of credit or actually I think two construction lines of credit at the time and we started buying properties as fast as we could buy them. And I had them all out on spreadsheets. It might’ve been 10 houses that we had in a renovation inventory. And I had out we were going to make, let’s say $25,000 a house and multiply that out and divide it, whatever I needed to do.

Chris Arnold:
Let’s set the stage for this. You got about 10 properties in an inventory, all waiting to be rehabbed. You sit down with an Excel and you start projecting what you think is going to come through. I just want to set the stage for this. And then what happens?

Greg Butler:
We get into these extensive renovations and instead of taking four months, they took nine months or a year. And we walked in, Ryan and I said that when we got our second construction line of credit, that we’re going to walk in the same day together and say, give them our notice. And so the day that we got the green light that we had another, I think it was a million dollar line of credit or half a million. I can’t remember what it was, but when the bank called or the lender called and said, “Hey, congratulations, you’ve been approved for this line of credit.” We were like, that’s it. We’re done. I was off that day. Brian was working, is that right, Brian? I was off and you were working.

Brian Rhodes:
Yep.

Greg Butler:
And so at the end of the day, at the end of Brian’s shift, I came in and we walked into the boss’ office and said, we actually gave him a 30 day notice, but they walked us out the door. We actually had some.

Chris Arnold:
That’s usually what happens. They’re not going to let you stick around.

Greg Butler:
We had some pretty good responsible positions at the company we were working for. And I guess there was a lot of sensitive information so they said, “You’re done.” They walked us halfway to our car. It was a very awkward moment, but looking back on it, it was neat to say that we started the same day together and left the same day together.

Chris Arnold:
I want to recap to make sure the audience pulls the principle here. This is actually a principle that I have written down that I’ve learned in the past. And the way that I phrase it is make sure that the cash register rings early and rings often. Let me say that again. Make sure the cash register rings early and rings often. What happened in you all’s scenario, which is the lesson to learn from is you were looking at what was coming down the pipeline, but those were rehabs. And so those are what I would call a slow dime. And what you guys needed was a fast nickel. And the reason I say that is you might make 10,000 on a wholesale deal, but you might make 25 on flips. That’s why I call it the fast nickel versus slow dime.
But the problem was you had so many slow dimes and you were expecting those to come in. And then of course, because of renovation and rehabs, we call it, we never know what’s going to happen sometimes. And didn’t end up playing out the way that you had in your head. Here’s what I want you guys to understand, if you’re thinking about quitting your 9:00 to 5:00, make sure that you’re looking at the inventory that you have and make sure you’re conservative and make sure that those aren’t all fix and flips. You need some wholesales in there. You need some things that are under contract and that you’re confident about. I love that piece.
And now, Brian, I want to go over to you and your position when I asked you, how do you know when to go in and drop the mic? You said, “Hey, I think we kind of walked out a little bit too soon, but there was value in the pressure that it created.” And so Brian talk to us a little bit about kind of that lesson. And even though it might’ve been too soon, you look back and go, still glad we did it that way. Why?

Brian Rhodes:
Yeah, that’s a good question. And other investors ask us this often, and it’s a really important point because looking back, we left way too soon. For some of the reasons you explained, some other reasons. I don’t necessarily knew if I know what was going to happen in the future that I’d make that same decision. Yeah, be financially stable. Take the fast nickel, have some passive income, some way to sustain yourself before you just jump into it. But the way I kind of compare it to is it’s like I have kids, a lot of us that have kids, they always ask you, if you wait until you’re ready to have kids, you’ll never have them.
Maybe in retrospect, we wouldn’t have left our jobs if we had all the information. I’m grateful we did because it’s gotten us to the place where we are now. But Greg and I went in with just that burn the boots mentality where once we said we were in, we were fully in. There was no going back to that job or at any other job, we were going to give it our all. And I think that was the really the key element that’s helped propel us to where we are today.

Chris Arnold:
Absolutely. And I think we’ve heard that, the idea of burning all bridges of retreat. And if you’re listening, that’s a tough decision. There’s a little bit of a leap of faith. And so I’m going to tell you, I personally believe and this was my experience. I’m like you guys, I went in all in because there are people that step into real estate and they kind of do it part time. And I was like, I’m going to borrow a little bit of money to kind of get me by because I was right out of grad school. I was broke. I didn’t have a dollar. Actually I was more than broke. I had school debt at the time and I was able to kind of scrounge up a little bit of money to borrow. And I’m like, I’m all in.
But I’m like you guys, I looked at people that kind of tried to step into that slowly. And again, I’m not saying that that’s wrong. That might be the best path for you. This is not a black and white answer, but I’m like you guys, I just went in feet first and I feel like that sense of urgency and burning those bridges of retreat is what allowed me to move forward in to make it successful. And so I think you want to be strategic. I think you want to, as Brian said, make sure you got some cash reserves and so forth, but I think there’s the other side of the spectrum where you might be overthinking it and we’re telling you just go.
You’re listening to this and you know, but there’s a little bit of fear and there’s always that well, what if? What if? And we’re telling you, you might be on that camp where today the biggest thing you took from this podcast are a couple guys that go, “Hey, it’s not a 100% certain, but it’s enough that you need to make a move.” =And we’re all telling you, based on our experience, we’re glad that we took a little bit of a leap of faith on that. And I love, love the story that you guys are telling on this.
Let’s transition. Let’s talk about radio. I’m curious, Brian, you are the one that came across radio first. To understand you all’s partnership, your kind of strategy, marketing, kind of that component. Greg is on the other side, on the sell side, doing some of the connecting, making the conversions, making the deals happen. What first attracted you to radio? Because you guys have been in the game a long time. I’m sure you tried a lot of different things.

Brian Rhodes:
Yeah, sure. Over the last 10 years we became very, very dependent upon one marketing channel and during COVID, that auction channel has kind of dried up. And we had to reinvent ourselves and go back to some of the old techniques that we had done many years before. And so we were trying all the normal channels, the direct mail, the cold calling, we did door to door marketing. We were doing all kinds of things and they just weren’t producing the results that we needed. And more importantly, Greg is the sales animal guy. He was just getting tired of all the stuff you have to go through with the investors hitting the same lists and everything else. He hated it. And so he would constantly give me feedback and I was like, all right, we got to figure out something different, got to figure out something new.
And I’m an education junkie. I’m out listening to podcasts all the time. And I just, I kept running it across you, Chris. I kept running across radio and I would hear some of your students just talking about this was a brand new technique. I didn’t know anybody else doing it. And there were so many advantages to doing it. And so I went to Greg, I was like, “Hey, can we have the green light to try this?” He’s like, “Yeah, go for it. I’m sick of everything else.”

Chris Arnold:
Because I want to hear Greg’s over here. Let’s go back to Greg. Greg, you’re on the front lines, taking some of these leads and conversions and you’re over here, almost pulling your hair out a little bit because what are you experiencing? High volume of competition? What’s going on in your mind?

Greg Butler:
It’s so frustrating too, in this market especially because things are so hot, the inventory’s low and everybody and their brother wants to get into what we do in general. And my experience is that if I’m talking to a seller from a cold call, outbound calling campaign and I’m talking to a seller, they’ve already talked to 10 other real estate investors. In some cases more. And they’ll say things like, “Just tell me what your offer is. Whoever gives me the most money, that’s who I’m selling it to. I’ve got 10 other offers. What’s your offer?” And that’s the kind of stuff that I’m used to dealing with and I’ll just tell you, I really get sick to that because I can’t deal with that. It’s not me.

Chris Arnold:
I agree. You’re over there frustrated because you’re having to deal with a high level of competition. Brian comes along and goes, I got an idea. And at this point you’re like, man, if it’s better than what we’re doing, I’m all in. And I want to speak to this principle. This principle is making sure that you take the right seat at the right poker table. Tony Shea talked about this, after he had sold Zappos, he went on to play professional poker for a period of time. And his whole conclusion from playing poker was the most important decision you make when you walk into a room is what table you determine to sit at because it doesn’t matter how good you are at the game, if you sit at an oversaturated table, you’re going to lose. Or you’re going to find it very difficult to win. Go find yourself at a table where there’s not many players or the players over there are less challenging to what you’re trying to accomplish.
And that’s really the big difference. I see everybody hovered over here at the direct mail poker table or the RVMing text blasting. And then all of a sudden I’m saying, “Hey, there’s this other poker table over here called radio and there’s nobody at it. Nobody at it.” And so I think that’s what you experienced. Greg, let’s kind of back over to you on your side. You guys decided to launch radio, what was the process in setting it up? Because you guys have done a lot of stuff. Hard, difficult, what would you tell the listeners?

Brian Rhodes:
I think that was to me, Chris.

Chris Arnold:
Yeah, Brian. Yeah.

Brian Rhodes:
Yeah, so it was when you first get interested in your course and you find out about it, you’re like, oh, I’m super pumped and you get into it but you’re nervous because you’ve never done this before. And so the first I start watching your videos and I’m like, man, this seems pretty simple. And then, your team helps a lot. Grace on your team is incredible to deal with and she helps walk you through a lot of steps. And so I’m excited, but I’m anxious at first. And you start meeting sales reps with radio and I’ll tell you one quick, funny story about sales reps. I did my first meeting and I was real nervous and I got through it. It seemed to go pretty well. But it’s a sales rep, so they’re going to probably make you feel overly confident. And so the next day I go in for my second sales rep meeting, we meet at a Starbucks and I go in there and I picture the number we proposed. She spilled coffee all over the table and it goes all over me.

Chris Arnold:
Because we are buying radio like we buy our deals at a deep discounted price. I tell people fundamentally what you’re paying us to do is show you how to buy radio at 25 cents on the dollar, which nobody’s doing. Everybody’s buying retail. But I love that she literally spilled her coffee. Now, obviously it took some negotiating, but you got the deal. How many stations are you guys on at this point?

Brian Rhodes:
We started our first station in November, middle of November. Two weeks ago, we started our second station and this week, actually yesterday, we went live on our third station. And the best part of this is that’s that same rep that spilled coffee all over me. We’re on hers.

Chris Arnold:
Come on. Come on. That’s what I’m talking about.

Greg Butler:
That’s awesome.

Chris Arnold:
Beautiful story, the fact that you came around and closed that deal. And you’re right, the reason that we do so well on radio long term is because of the price that we know how to lock it in. And the strategy obviously is very particular on how to get that done. I want to jump back over to you, Greg. Radio is now up and running. I love that you guys are snowball. You guys are literally right on track, super proud of you. One station to two, now you’re to three. You’re 90 days in. What are you liking most at this point now, Greg, about radio being on the front line?

Greg Butler:
The biggest thing I like is that almost all the people that call are sellers of houses, number one. And number two, that the people that are selling houses seem to be highly motivated. And it doesn’t mean that I’m going to make a deal or we’re going to make a deal with every single one. But when the phone rings, I get excited and I don’t dread it like I do with other marketing. I mean it.

Chris Arnold:
And you said it and I’m laughing, but it’s so true. I want to say this, you know you have the right marketing channel. I never heard someone say it, Greg, but I want to make sure we repeat it. You know you have the right marketing channel when you get excited when your phone rings versus you get a sense of dread. It’s so true though.

Greg Butler:
Yep. And so, we have different phone numbers for all of our different marketing and you it’s like the bat phone. When I have a radio call coming in, it says radio call and it says the station. And so when I get that, it doesn’t matter what I’m doing, I’m out on my boat fishing, my son knows that if the phone rings, he needs to be quiet, I’ll take the call. But the interesting thing is we don’t get a ton of calls, but the calls that we get are very high quality. They’re all motivated. They all want to talk to me. I already have instant credibility. It’s just an enjoyable phone call and I get excited because a decent percentage of the time we’re going to make a deal with somebody.

Chris Arnold:
Yeah, that’s fantastic. And you’re right. We’re used to doing something like direct mail. We’re used to getting this high call volume and that makes us feel great. But if you step back and look at that process, well, we know that over 50% of those calls are hate calls. I kind of view radio is like getting rid of all the garbage of direct mail and just getting the quality calls, which is a lot less. And people have asked me, “Chris, what have you learned about radio so far that maybe you didn’t understand launching it?” I really thought, and the speculation was that the primary people that were going to utilize radio were going to be super seasoned. What I have found is it is fantastic for the new investor because the last thing a new investor has is time. Time being wasted on managing something super heavy, like direct.
And again, I’m not saying direct mail doesn’t work. If you’re using it, stick with it, but it is a lot higher maintenance. And if you’re working a 9:00 to 5:00, you don’t have the luxury to sit there and have a 100 calls come in and know that over 50 of those are just wasting your time telling you to stop mailing their house. You much rather receive 10 calls and know that the majority of those calls are going to be motivated. And that’s the huge paradigm shift that I see with our students coming in. They’re like, “Man, I love the fact that this is so much lower maintenance than what I was dealing with.” And on top of that, my biggest takeaway is I really believe, I really have come to this conclusion. I believe that radio should be one of the very first things you consider launching, because why do you have to go do cold call, RVM text blasting, just because that’s what everyone tells you to do.
And you’re looking at that going man, that’s the last thing that fits my personality. I got a 1,000 to $2,000 a month to spend, just go right into the marketing game. Jump the prospecting and go to the marketing. And I’m just telling you, that might not be the case for everyone. But if you’re listening, I want you to know that you got the freedom to do that if you think that that’s the best fit for you. I love it. And by the way, I want you guys, if you’re listening, go over to YouTube, subscribe at Chris Arnold Real Estate, watch his video because Brian and Greg are doing a homage background to Loom. Greg’s got the background with the waves and the palm tree and Brian’s got his tropical background. You can always check us out on YouTube and put a face with the name.
I want to go back over to you, Brian. Greg’s kind of given his answer on what he likes best about radio. What about you now? You guys have been doing this a few months.

Brian Rhodes:
Yeah. Two things that I would add, one is just, and you were touching on it earlier, but the simplicity of setting it up, it’s not hard to set up, but even better than that, is once it’s up and running, you’re making sure your credit card payment goes through every month and that’s about it on the marketing end. And that’s beautiful. There’s no other marketing channel that I know of that we’ve ever done that is that easy once it’s up and running. And to turn it back to what you were just saying about new people getting started, I would agree completely because if anything that gets in the way of you being successful, like direct mail, like all those things and the lists you have to deal with and the difficult sellers, those can be stumbling blocks to either get you to quit once you’ve been doing it or not get started. More to your point, Chris, absolutely I would highly recommend radio for new investors as well.

Chris Arnold:
It’s for the newbie. It’s been a huge realization to me. And I can tell you everyone around was making all the speculations, well, this is going to be just the big seasoned guys. This is what I’m proud of, I’m proud that the rookies have come in and proved all the veterans wrong and taken this tool and done incredible things with it. That’s what I like, because I’m always rooting for the underdog, the rookie, the new guy. I was there as well.

Brian Rhodes:
Can I add one more thing?

Chris Arnold:
Yeah, go ahead.

Brian Rhodes:
Because I think it’s important and I’ve heard you mention it before, but I just want to give it credibility on the authority status you get from radio as well. And so I’ve gotten calls and texts from a bunch of investors, even investors I don’t typically talk to for years. And they’re hitting me up on the phone and text saying, “Hey man, I love your ad. It’s awesome. How’s it doing?” And so it hasn’t come to fruition yet where we get a direct benefit, but I know at some point, because of that authority status, we’re going to get several benefits down the road that we’re not even counting in. That’s not why we did radio. It’s just a really nice bonus on top.

Chris Arnold:
I agree. The authoritative marketing is key. And now with the advent of where social media is, from Instagram to YouTube, I’m telling you, authority marketing is taking over. Back in the day, I don’t think it was as important because there was less ways you could do it. What did you have? Television, radio? Well, now you got podcasts, Instagram, YouTube. It’s just endless. And so the more authority that you can build for your business, it’s going to push you ahead of the competition. I really believe it’s more of an authority game on the marketing realm right now as well.
Now if I’m listening, the most important question I always ask is, okay, that’s great. You love radio. It’s got all these benefits, but let’s talk about some numbers, some deals. What I have and let’s walk through this, is you guys have been up for 90 days, you guys have contracted four deals and you’ve already closed on three. And you’ve done that in the first 90 days. Is that right? I get that right?

Greg Butler:
Correct.

Brian Rhodes:
That’s right.

Chris Arnold:
Absolutely. That’s the other thing I like about radio, we’re talking before about making the cash register ring early. The thing I like about radio is you don’t have to wait six months to get a deal. I find that the majority of our students literally contract the deal within the first 90 days. That is literally the majority. And you guys have come in and actually closed, not just contracted, closed on three. Let’s talk about one of the deals. I love too, that you guys wholesale, fix and flip, buy on terms. We were talking about one of the deals you guys done. You’ve got a seller financing deal that you guys have picked up and gone to seller finance and it looks like this is potentially a six figure deal. Just kind of give us a high level of this deal I know you’re excited about. Brian or Greg, whoever. I kind of teed that up for both of you.

Greg Butler:
That’s okay. It was a kind of a unique situation of a property out in the country. And I really wasn’t confident in what it was really worth, but in talking with the seller and how it kind of came about, we bought the property into the teens. And so it was an interesting deal for multiple reasons, a lot of stuff strewn about the property and interesting things about the house itself, the location and stuff. And so we ended up closing on it and we decided that it would make sense for us to sell it with owner financing. We actually listed it with a realtor in order to get more interest in the property.
And so, yeah, so we’re going to make well over six figures on the deal that we bought in Houston, in the teens. But interesting, the good thing about it also is that we’re doing it with seller financing and we’re getting an interest rate, 9% ballpark. And obviously we’re not paying taxes on all the profits that we’re getting from it right up front. That’ll be down the road a little bit here and there each year down the road, but we also got enough money down to pay us back for what we had in the property and then some.

Chris Arnold:
That’s awesome. You got a nice, substantial down payment. You set this thing up on a solid interest rate and now you’ve got a deal that’s going to pay you more than once. And that’s going to produce over six figures. Here’s what I like about radio, people ask me, “Well, is it for a wholesaling fix?” It doesn’t matter. The one thing that all of us investors have in common, regardless of what our exit strategy is, if it’s subject to owner finance, building a rental portfolio, the one thing we all need that we all have in common is we need motivated sellers. Bottom line. With radio, the job of radio is just to tee you up a motivated seller. What you do with that motivated seller is completely up to you. And it doesn’t matter on the radio front. You can use whatever exit strategy that you want. And so that’s why we see people coming in and utilizing radio for all kinds of things underneath the spectrum of real estate. I love it.
I want to wrap up here and kind of close this out. Brian, somebody is listening going, man, this radio thing, this doesn’t go away. It’s just here to stay. Which it is. And I get the skepticism. I’m super skeptical by nature, but somebody is a little bit on the fence right now going, man, should I do this radio thing for 2021? Brian, what would you tell him? Just your experienced opinion to add value.

Brian Rhodes:
It’s a pretty easy decision for me. Once you realize it’s not a ridiculous amount of money to invest, your ongoing marketing costs are at least on par if not, I think cheaper than most marketing channels.

Chris Arnold:
What are you spending a month right now? Let’s throw that out there.

Brian Rhodes:
With our third station, we’re right at just above $2,000 a month.

Chris Arnold:
Three radio stations, 2,000. Keep going. I just wanted to make sure people understood that.

Brian Rhodes:
Right. When you tell most people that, they’re like, that’s all? And you’re like, yeah, that’s all. Yeah, it’s not going to kill your budget. The quality like we talked about earlier, is just ridiculous compared to other marketing channel we’ve had. Yeah, I would a 100% do it. And we just explained our first deal. I can’t do the math real quick, but that’s many, many, many years, decades that that’s going to pay for radio marketing of just on that one deal. And so we love it. We wish, our only challenge now is we just need to get more channels fast. I would highly encourage anyone to get started today.

Chris Arnold:
Absolutely, man. Well, Greg, Brian, love you guys came on. Love your passion for real estate. Love the fact that we at Wholesaling Inc were able to give you a true valuable tool. That’s what I’m always excited about. Again, it’s cool, as I say to do deals, but as much more fulfilling to give somebody a tool and watch them go do deals and get excited about it because in my opinion man, that’s where the real significance is found in coaching and helping people. Thank you guys so much for coming on and to the rest of you guys, we will talk to you soon when we add more value. Talk to you later.

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