Posted on: March 08, 2021

This episode is the second part of the two-part series that talks about lessons from the legend, Mike Cantu, on becoming a Million Dollar Real Estate Investor. In the previous episode, Mike discussed the strategies for getting started with real estate when you are dead-busted-broke. He also shared his views on building a massive rental portfolio to become a million-dollar investor and adapting to any market and still make money.

For those who missed the previous episode, Mike is a full-time Real Estate Investor and Real Estate Entrepreneur for 39 years and runs a buy or sell operation in Southern California, wholesales properties, and manages a rental house portfolio. He is the author of the first piece of real estate education for Lauren entitled Don’t Get Voted Off Real Estate Island, released in early 2009. He also offered a course that covers everything you want to know about real estate.

In this episode, Mike will share the exact three-step process for getting real estate deals. He will talk about how to get deals without spending a dime on marketing. Mike will also break down his entire offer process step by step and his five-page offer letter. Also, he will talk about the only marketing channel that he still uses up to this day for over 45 years now.

You are a step closer to being a millionaire! Complete your lessons from the legend himself! Listen and enjoy!

Key Takeaways

  • What Mike’s real-estate portfolio looks like
  • On having other deals aside from the goal of one free and clear house a year
  • Mike’s old fashioned yet successful way of running his business
  • How he gets a YES on his offers
  • How he structures his letter and his niche list
  • Mike’s blind archery and rifle approach programs in sending out mails
  • How he convince sellers to sell him their homes in Southern California
  • A roleplay with Lauren on asking for terms
  • What Mike’s skip a season line means
  • His gut feeling on what is going to happen to the market in 2021
  • Why Mike still does the business
  • Parting words from Mike
  • His love for Rhinos

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Episode Transcription

Darren Bentley:
Hey guys, Darren Bentley here, and welcome to part two of Lauren’s interview with legendary real estate investor, Mike Cantu. And in the conclusion of this interview, which by the way, if you haven’t listened to part one yet, stop this recording and go back and do that right now. But in part two of this episode that you’re about to listen to, Mike shares his exact three-step process for getting real estate deals, and talks about how to get deals without spending a dime on marketing. He also breaks down his entire offer process step by step, and talks about his five page offer letter. And not only that, he also talks about the one and only marketing channel that he does still use today, and has been using the same marketing channel for over 25 years. And he goes into all of that and why still uses this channel today. You’re going to love this. Enjoy.

Lauren:
How many rentals do you have right now? What’s your real estate portfolio look like?

Mike Cantu:
40 some odd houses, all great neighborhood, Southern California, paid for stuff.

Lauren:
Yeah. Southern California is a good note, by the way, this isn’t your Midwest $50,000 home. These are high end expensive houses. In fact, you own a couple duplexes, right, in Huntington Beach?

Mike Cantu:
Oh right downtown, right in the middle of everything. That’s my weekend spot. Double lot. That was one of my best real estate deals ever. I’ve got another little house on the north side of the pier. I love downtown Huntington and I spend a good chunk of my life there.

Lauren:
And I think that one thing for you guys to remember, when you have that idea of just one house a year free and clear, that doesn’t mean that you’re just going to do one house a year free and clear, right Mike? I mean, you might come up on other deals, right?

Mike Cantu:
Oh, absolutely. And in order to get a house free and clear in a year, you got to do lots of stuff to generate money to get the debt removed.

Lauren:
So everybody thinks right now that they need to use technology and you need to be just this, you have to use all the things. There’s so many technological platforms being offered and thrown at new investors, new wholesalers. But how do you run your business? Because you can’t even send a text message.

Mike Cantu:
Lauren, I have never sent an email. I get them every day, all day. My secretary Kim prints out what she thinks is important and puts a stack on my desk. I sort them over the trash can. What’s left I hand write on them and I slide back to her. I ask people all the time, “What do you need to make a real estate deal?” And quite often people throw out the word computer. I do not have a computer on my desk in my office. Kim has two of them, and I’m not allowed to touch either one. I have no idea what’s going on there. I do have a computer at home that I Google stuff. I drive the Google car around, but I don’t do text messages, don’t do emails, don’t do computer. My MO is a telephone, a yellow pad and a pen. That’s how I’ve always operated.
And I tell people, there’s three things you need to do to make a real estate deal. Three things involved. Two humans, and one piece of property. That’s it. And a meaningful dialogue with the person that has what you want. That’s what it boils down to. I’ve always said the only thing standing between you and everything on this planet that you’ve ever wanted is a meaningful dialogue with the person that has what you want. And so I go after the people that have what I want and the goal is to have a meaningful dialogue. I do lots of direct mail, calls come in, Kim sifts and sorts the calls. She answers them, not me. I don’t take seller calls anymore. And then she puts together a nice package for me, a profile, the comps, her opinion of value. She does a great job on it. Then I call the sellers back and try and have that dialogue and make a deal.
Now during the conversation, I hardly ever, ever, ever make a verbal offer. I am there on a fact-finding mission. I want to get all the information I can, and tell them I will digest it. I’ll do my homework. And I’ll get back with you either this afternoon or tomorrow morning. And I always put my offers in writing. There’s four pages, start with four blank sheets of paper. I have a cover letter reiterating what my original mailpiece said, what I was out to accomplish, a little bit about our conversation. The next page is an estimate of the fix up on the property. The third page is how I arrived at my offer price, showing them everything, starting at one number, deducting what they’d pay if they sold it through a realtor, deducting the fix up, down to my margin, explaining what my margin covers, and down to the net cash to them price.
And then the fourth page is an offer. If it’s an occupied house there’s seven items, if it’s a vacant house, there’s five items. And I send that out in a two day Priority Mail envelope. I don’t use just one stamp on it. We make a collage and use up about a fourth of the envelope that looks like you put a lot of money on that envelope when I’m serious. And my offer is in writing, and if I don’t hear back from them within a week or so, I usually send out a follow-up before I call them. It’s the same Priority Mail envelope, a short cover letter that says, “I didn’t hear back from you in regards to the proposal or the offer that I made on your property of whatever address.” And then the second page is almost all blank, but it says the net cash to me price for the above referenced property that I will accept is, and it’s their chance to make me a counteroffer.
The first time I sent that out, Lauren, I thought I had made a deal on two houses, and the guy just went dark on me and I couldn’t find him, and he wouldn’t take my calls. So I sent the follow-up. I was $2,000 away on one property and $3,000 away on the other. Five grand between the two houses. It was well over a hundred thousand in equity. And I thought there’s something to this follow-up. So I make an offer. And then I follow-up. And if they don’t respond to my follow-up, which I also put a self-addressed stamped envelope in the follow-up package, so all they have to do is write a number, sign their name, stick it in the mail. Then if I don’t hear from them, then I will attempt to get them on the phone.

Lauren:
How do those conversations go? Because a lot of students that I have, they deliver what they call a low ball offer. And the seller is like, “No.” The seller I feel like always no at first, right? How many times is the seller ever like, “yeah”, to your first offer?

Mike Cantu:
Lauren, before I started putting the how I arrived at my offer price page in there, I got kicked around really good. But I tell people if they’re having a problem with my proposal, can you go grab the page how I arrived at my offer price, and help me out here and show me where I went wrong. To where people love to help people, I say start it at this value. Are we close here? Did I mess that up? I said, “I’ve got this, my supporting data tells me that this should be about where we started.” Then when we deduct the fix up, sometimes I get static on the fix up, and more than once I’ve said, “Well, if I stole the materials and did the work myself, I could probably bring it in a bit cheaper, but that’s not how I operate.” And we go over the breakdown of the line items I had in there.
Normally I’m not in the house so I’m guessing. I always at the bottom of the fix up page, I’m guessing at any inside work to be done. Anything that I budgeted for that doesn’t need to be done can be added to the purchase price. Well, that never happens. Once or twice I’ve added air conditioning. They said, “No, we have new central heat and air.” Scratch that one. And the numbers still work. Occasionally you get beat up, but not so much. It’s the tone and the rapport with the seller. And usually in the first conversation with them, I always, always ask the seller, “What do you want to see happen? Paint a picture for me.” And quite often they do, and I know which direction I’m going. Sometimes they just give a ridiculous number. They paint the wrong picture and then I’ll ask them politely, “What’s your second choice?”

Lauren:
I love the way you say things.

Mike Cantu:
I try and keep them engaged. I throw some humor in there, but I’m not a motivated, motivated seller. Yes, I want to buy, but I don’t give off those fumes. This is another prospect. It’s an opportunity. Hopefully we can make something work out of this, but I always ask them, “What would you like to see happen?” That happens early on. First question I ask, is there any interest in the possibility of selling this property? Let’s make sure we have a seller on the phone. I’ve had plenty of people, “Oh no. I’m just looking to see what you had in mind and value.” They just want somebody to talk to. So first I’d make sure we have a seller on the line. Then I ask them, “What do they want to see happen?” And start probing from there, like I said, I’m on a fact finding mission to get all the info I can to present an offer that hopefully was going to work.

Lauren:
So it just sounds like you’ve built so much rapport with the seller that by the time you get to giving them an actual offer, you already know why they’re selling.

Mike Cantu:
Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes people say, “Just make me an offer.” The grumpy old man. I get him all the time to where he says, “Just make me an offer.” Can you tell me anything about house? I got a few questions. Is everything original, or you have any upgrades? That’s an important one. And some people will tell me, “Oh no, it’s terrible. Beats everything.” Other people think that they remodeled it 15 years ago and it’s in perfect condition. So not all my offers work, of course not. But I put enough of them out there to keep Kim going in my office. She does my direct mail, and she’s got to stay busy, and we get enough deals out of the direct mail to where I think, until it doesn’t work I’ll forever be mailing. I’ve been mailing 25 plus years.

Lauren:
That’s crazy to think. I think you were one of the OGs really of the direct to seller game. It wasn’t as well known because when I first got started, I remember being able to send like 2,000 mail pieces and get a deal. Now you have to send a whole lot more to get a deal.

Mike Cantu:
Lauren, I was going to say, out of my office about 500 letters a month. I do letters, not postcards. I’ve been a student of marketing as long as I’ve been a student of real estate. And I’m fascinated how you can start with a blank sheet of paper, put some selected words in the right order, and get a complete stranger to respond and react to my efforts. So I love the marketing part of it. And like I said, I’ve studied probably as much marketing, pretty close as to the real estate part of it. What makes people do what they do?

Lauren:
So you’re only sending 500 letters. You must be mailing to a very niche list.

Mike Cantu:
Well, okay. Now, Lauren, there’s only two categories of houses. There’s owner-occupied, and non-owner occupied. I don’t mail to owner occupants. I tell people I buy houses, not homes. And so it’s all non-owner occupied. From there, I came up with, I think I have 38 niche lists in the non-owner occupied arena. So my marketing message is going to be tailored to that list. And I tell people, “Not only do you need to know the what, what you’re going after”, I go after a very specific property. I don’t go after new stuff. I don’t go after big stuff. I don’t go after ghetto stuff. I’ve always explained I skip the bottom 20% of the market, and I skip the top 40% of the market. That lower middle 40% is my sweet spot. So that’s the what that I go after. And over the years, I figured out who the who that owns that, who responds. So I also go after that market. So it’s the what and the who, not just the what. Which really, really helps. And once again, that’s back to the market.

Lauren:
Right. So I guess your technique, I mean, it’s more of a sniper technique than a throw crap on the wall and see what sticks.

Mike Cantu:
Now it all depends Lauren. I’ve got two programs. When I just do a regular mailer, I call it blind archery. We’re shooting arrows in the sky with a blindfold, hoping to hit something that is the what that I’m going after. And then other properties I use the rifle approach. The letter is all about that specific property. And I’ve been known to include pictures of that property, but it’s absolutely tailored to that property. And it’s a whole different approach. So we do lots of those too.

Lauren:
I love it. I love it. Now, one thing that’s always blown my mind about you is that you are able to convince sellers to creatively finance their homes in one of the most expensive real estate markets, full of very savvy sellers that don’t get themselves in situations as often as other areas of the country. How do you convince sellers to sell their homes either subject to or straight seller financing to you in Southern California?

Mike Cantu:
You use the word convince Lauren. I don’t think I’ve ever convinced anybody of anything. I ask them, “Is it the cash that you’re motivated by? Is it the income? Are you going to miss the rental income? How’s your tax situation?” We go over a variety of things, and then I throw it out there. And quite often, I’ll make a cash and a terms offer. I’m always humored when the cash price, which is obviously lower, the seller calls back and says, “Yeah, I’m going to accept your offer.” “Which one?” “Well I combined the two of them, I want your cash deal at the terms price.” And I tell them usually that doesn’t work. But the other day when we were talking I told you about the property that I got zero interest financing and it pays itself off in four years. And that was the seller, that was the same amount in net rent was getting every month. So I just replaced the rental income. We never talked about interest. He’s okay with it. He was motivated. He wanted out, and it worked for him.
I have a mobile home park in Tucson, and it’s with a lifelong friend of mine. I grew up with Mark and he’s been there 30 years. And that’s what he does. But we bought a great turnaround project. And once again, seller wanted cash. We asked him if would take terms or if he’d take some monthly payments, we got into that conversation and it ended up where we put a third down, he financed two thirds of it at 5% interest, fixed rate, 15 years, no payments for the first six months. And once again, I thought that was from asking him, our starting point was going to be 1.4 million on that park.
And we were going to go up to 2 million and pay cash if need be. And it ended up when we asked them to ballpark, I always, always ask people, “Do you have a ballpark opinion on what you think the property’s worth?” I want to find out what they’re thinking. And Bob came back and he said somewhere between 900 and a million. And I said, would you split it at 950? He thought about it and said, “Give me 975 and we have a deal.” Which was $425,000 below what we were going to bring in, what we thought was our starting point low offer. So once again, ask people what they want, what do they want to see happen, and take it from there.

Lauren:
So how do you ask them for terms? Because when we’ve tried, and we’re getting the hang of it, I’m trying to coach my team on asking for terms. The conversation is not as fluid as just a straight cash offer. So say, let’s roleplay a little bit, say I’m a seller and you just made me a cash offer. And I said, no, and now you’re going to go into the terms.

Mike Cantu:
Is there any interest in a chunk of money down with monthly payments?

Lauren:
Well, what do you mean?

Mike Cantu:
I give you X amount down, and I pay you payments monthly until we’re paid in full. We can drag this out for a long, long time, and you’ll get the same or close to the same or more, depending on the circumstances. And you’re collecting now in rent without the hassle, without any part of that. And it’s going to help you in your tax situation from the installment sale. You’re only taxed on your profit as it comes in, rather than all at once.

Lauren:
Okay. Well, what would the price be for the home? I guess how much money am I getting?

Mike Cantu:
See, Lauren, you’ll never get that out of me over the phone.

Lauren:
Okay. So that’s when you then go, so you stop. So when they start asking for details, you stop and then you analyze it and you do it in writing.

Mike Cantu:
Yes, and I say, “I’d like to put it in writing, and then we can go over it and start modifying from there. If it doesn’t work for you as it’s written, then we’ll figure out each part of it. What do you need to see happen here to make it work?”

Lauren:
I love that.

Mike Cantu:
And then when we’re almost there, I think we’re headed in the right direction. If we get hung up on something, I ask them point blank, “Is that the only thing standing between us and doing business?” If it’s a zero interest and they want 6%, 4%, whatever it is, I’ll ask them, “Is that the only thing standing between us and doing business? Okay, fine. Let’s do it.”

Lauren:
Okay. So it sounds like at first you introduced the idea, and if you feel like you’ve dropped a line and you got a little bite, you stop the conversation and then you do a more formal offer so now you have line items to go and sort of pick apart and see-

Mike Cantu:
Yeah. Every seller is different. Some of them we’ll talk about all of it, balloon payments, and see I’m a fan of zero interest. Don’t get it very often. But I ask for it quite often. And most of the time they come back and say, “Well, I was thinking interest only with a balloon payment.” And I’m at zero interest. And I ask people all the time, “Well then would you split it with me?” I love splitting things. If we’re close, let’s split it. And usually follow up with, “Is that fair? Would you split it with me? Would that be fair?” But in the case of zero interest, no, I want interest only. I ask them would you split it with me? Meaning that half of each payment is going to be principal, and half of each payment is going to be interest. It’s going to have a different interest rate every single month, because that’s a tough one to figure out. But, on a normal 30 year loan, it takes to year 21 on the amortization schedule before you get to the half principal, half interest payments. And let’s skip the first 21 years and jump right into that. So I love a half interest half principal payment. Done lots and lots of those.

Lauren:
I love it. I do love how you ask things. So I still remember some of the little lines that you put in your course. Give us your lines for when a seller doesn’t want to sell, you gave them the cash offer and they say, “I think I might hold onto it.” Do you still say your skip a season?

Mike Cantu:
I gave the skip a season speech the other day. Now, if somebody says they’re not quite ready to sell, or they’re probably going to go with a realtor, that’s when I throw the skip season in there, which I’ll share with everybody. That is, I explain to people here’s my offer. I can close on Friday. Or you can take the old fashioned route and skip a season or two to get you your paycheck. And they say, “What do you mean by skip a season or two?” And I say, “Well, let’s go through, first we’ll do a best case scenario, then a worst case scenario.” Best case scenario is you give your tenant, been there longer than a year, a 60 day notice. And they actually move. Now, you’ve got a vacant house. Then you get the contractor in there. You get a couple of contractors, you get your estimates. And they say they can do it in 30 days. And they actually bring it in on time and on budget. Now we’re 90 days deep.
Then you list it with a realtor, and they expose it to the marketplace and you get an FHA offer. And then you get the appraisal, and it’s a 45 day escrow. That’s going to take 60 days. Something’s going to happen. And we’re into our second season here. The worst case scenario, you give your tenants a 60 day notice, they don’t move. You go through an eviction that can take three, six months or longer. Then you finally get possession of it. Then you get a contractor in there who doesn’t do what he says he’s going to do and runs off with some of your money.
You get a second one in there. Two, three months later, you finally get it to the marketplace, then you list with a realtor, get it exposed to the marketplace, get an offer immediately. You go 30, 45 days, deal falls apart on the two yard line. You pick up the pieces, you do it over, and I can paint a scenario to well into the next year. And I tell people, “That’s your scenario. If you go that route is going to be probably somewhere between the best case and the worst case.” That’s skipping many seasons, or you can get your check next Friday.

Lauren:
And I think that with where we are right now in the market and in the economy, the skip a season speech is something we should all hone into, because it’s a little, we’re starting to feel like we could be on a cliff. And I wanted to ask you, what do you think is going on with the market? What do you think is going to happen?

Mike Cantu:
Lauren, I have been able to answer that question spot on for 39 years. I’ve never missed it. I’ve never been wrong. I’ll tell you exactly what’s going to happen. It’s going to go up, down, or stay the same, and govern yourself accordingly. So one of those three scenarios will happen this year. My gut feeling, it’s not going to be the middle one. It’s either going to be really good, or the other way, not so good. I think we’re going to have a good 2021, but I’m the bubbling optimist. And always have been, just life beats me down into becoming a realist, but I wake up every day as a bubbly optimist.
So I’m optimistic for this year. But once again, Lauren, I run my business so that if things go south, I’m not going to get hurt. When I retail stuff, the inventory that I’m willing to fix up and flip, plan B, am I willing to keep it as a rental if I can’t sell it. And that eliminates so many properties that I considered for a fix and flip, I think, “No, I’d never rent that.” And I usually end up wholesaling those deals. If I’m not willing to keep it, I usually don’t retail it.

Lauren:
And that’s the mentality right now that I think everyone should kind of have is what is your plan B?

Mike Cantu:
Yes. Plan B and plan C. Like I said, Lauren, when a deal comes across my desk, first thing I immediately look at say is this a part, or is this a tool? And most of them are tools, not parts. And I think, “Okay, now what’s my risk exposure here, and how much money can I make if I wholesale it? Now, if I take it all the way through the fix and flip, what is the difference between my wholesale fee and my retail fee?” If I can make $20,000 on a wholesale fee and $50,000 on a retail flip, the real math equation is no, I’m doing the flip for 30. Because 20 is already mine if I wholesale it. So I’m taking it the distance for the extra 30, and then is that worth it? Would I rather wholesale two more houses similar and make more money, or do the one fix and flip? So it all depends on what it is, where it is, and what do I have going on?

Lauren:
That makes a lot of sense. Well, Mike, you have shared so much with us today, and it’s been amazing to have you and just listen to your story, but I am curious, you obviously don’t need to work. You’re doing fine. Why in God’s name do you still do this business?

Mike Cantu:
I tell people I truly am going to have to go through a 12 step program to get out of deal making. I love making deals. And wholesaling is always been my favorite. I saw late night channel surfing, I saw a rodeo. And the baby cow ran out of the gate, cowboy on the horse chasing after him. And he roped it, and jumped off his horse and tied up the cow’s legs and threw his arms in the air. And it dawned on me, that’s me in a real estate deal. It’s the thrill of the chase, the thrill of the score. Once I have it tied up, most of the time, I don’t want to fix it up. I don’t want to rent it. I don’t want to babysit it, I want to get back on the horse and do it again. So it’s the thrill of the score that I still do three to four deals a month consistently. And it just makes my day when I put some equity on the table. I think life is wonderful. And quite often a few deals is more money than most people earn in a year.
And I think this is a great business. and it all comes back to, I think the education part of it. I ask people, I ask my friends on a regular basis did you eat today? And of course they tell me yes, and I inquire a little deeper, what did you eat? And then I ask them, I say, “Okay, you got your physical nutrition. Tell me about your mental nutrition.” Our mind and our body are two entirely different things. And you need to work on your mind and the mental nutrition every bit as much as the physical part, I exercise every day.
And I always listen to either a CD, I have a cassette player for the old stuff, or YouTube videos, but it’s always on either my real estate toolbox, acquisition stuff, or personal development. And I read for an hour a day, I’m a reading fanatic. I usually use a cooking timer when I do it, but I think the education part of it is the absolute critical part of it. I have always said, I have an insatiable appetite for knowledge, and there’s some great stuff hidden between the front and back covers of a lot of books out there.

Lauren:
Mike, I mean, you have delivered so much in this episode, and I couldn’t agree with you more. The education part is so important to grow. I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for me getting your CDs or your course, and ever since that, I remember you saying in it that you invested an hour a day reading, and that every year you put away some money and made sure that you reinvested in your education. So to this day, every year, I make sure I take probably at least 10% of my income and I reinvest it back into my education. And since then, I’ve only grown as an individual, but also, my bank account has grown. So I thank you for that advice.

Mike Cantu:
I think that’s the best use of your money is investing in yourself. See, I grew up when I was a kid, there was a show, the Six Million Dollar Man. It was the bionic astronaut. And remember he got in a big crash, and the beginning of the show they said, “We can build him better, stronger, faster.” And I always thought that was me. That with enough effort, we can build a better me. And I’ve been on that mission ever since I got into real estate. And I know we’re running out of time, Lauren. Parting words, I do want to share with your listeners, we’re in the people business, first and foremost. And it’s people you’re dealing with. You buy from people, you sell to people, you rent to people, and you hire people to fix up the stuff. It’s all people, real estate is in second position.
It’s the people business first and foremost, and having people in the world is part of the piece of the puzzle to make it all work. And I’ve had good, Kim’s been with me, this is her 30th year as my secretary, personal assistant, whatever job titles she wants to give you is what she is in my world. She’s great. And I can’t imagine life without her, but first and foremost, is the people business, and I use the term, if your people don’t work out, go back to the people store and get some new people. But it’s people first.

Lauren:
I love it. Well, Mike, thank you so much for coming today and being on the show. I have to ask one last question before I let you go. Is that a rhino statue behind you?

Mike Cantu:
I have rhinos everywhere. I am a rhino fan, and I did write down Lauren, you said the rhino tribe. Okay. Now we’re moving in my house here. Lauren, can you see this one?

Lauren:
So did you know that we are, so we’re called rhinos here at Wholesaling, Inc. Rhinos are our, it’s our mascot.

Mike Cantu:
There is, go ahead. There’s no less than 30 rhinos statues in my house. People give them to me as gifts. And I read a book many, many years ago, it was one of three. The first, it was Rhinoceros Success.

Lauren:
That’s what he named it after.

Mike Cantu:
And then there was Advanced Rinocerology. And then Rhino Relativity. I still have those three books, the rhino’s King of the jungle. Everybody knows that. Not the lion, not the tiger. It is the rhino. 6,000 pounds, horn down, charging, nobody stands a chance. So I’ve always had the rhino attitude. Scott Alexander wrote those books 30 some odd years ago, and they’re in my library, and all I have to do is walk up to them and look at them, and I know exactly, and it just reinforces my mindset. So that is a rhino now, we have one more here that my grandson painted up for me. That was his gift to me. I love that one, but yeah, there’s rhinos everywhere.

Lauren:
When I first got hired on to coach with Wholesaling, Inc, I’m still the only female coach. So I got a rhino and I glittered it gold with gold glitter. So I’m the glitter rhino of the group, because I’m bringing a little female twist to it. So I think, I mean, that is such a small world that you are as into that book as Tom Krol is. So I love it. Well, Mike, it was great to have you and everybody who listened, I hope you guys got something out of it. I know I did. I want to thank you guys so much for listening to this episode, and remember that if you guys are looking to invest in yourself, and you’re looking for a coaching program, I’m coaching the virtual real estate investing coaching program for the group. It’s virtualinvestingmastery.com. If you guys are interested in applying, again, that’s www.virtualinvestingmastery.com. I would love to have you as one of my students. So thanks again guys, till next time.

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