Today’s show is the second part of the Two-part series with Tony Javier on TV talk.
Going back to the first part of this conversation, Tony Javier is an expert who rocks and rolls in the wholesaling community on TV. He has been in the business for 20 years and started doing business by learning the fundamentals of wholesaling through a course called no down payment by Carleton Sheets. Previously, he talked about these fascinating things about TV: building credibility on TV and having a celebrity status just like in the radio, virtually no competition, the 10x ROI on TV, automated management in TV, and earning a lot in TV.
In this episode, Tony will continue to talk about the benefits of TV vis-a-vis other marketing channels. He will touch on these things to highlight the benefits of TV: Return Of Time (ROT) and scalability of TV, how doing commercials on TV gets more quality deals, the process and difficulty level of doing commercials on TV that Tony offers to clients through the Done With You Program, and how easy it is to get conversions on TV.
Be amazed at how beneficial TV is in hitting big deals in the wholesaling business. Do not miss this episode and get your takeaways from Tony!
- Tony explains what high ROT (Return On Time) on TV is
- He talks about how scalable TV is
- Higher quality leads and hitting big in TV commercials compared to cold calling and sending text messages
- Streamlining his process in doing commercials on TV in a shorter period for clients
- Getting better conversion through building trust on TV to
- What the Done With You Program is
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Welcome to the Wholesaling Inc podcast, I’m your host, Chris Arnold, glad to have you with us today. If you’re tuning in, some of you were waiting for this episode to drop from last week because this is part two of a two part series on television. I’m excited because you guys have actually been bugging me for all year, “Chris, done radio, done radio, what about TV?” And so, if you’re tuning in for the first time, I really had to kind of get out there and I wanted to come across and find someone that had as much experience on radio, I’ve been doing it for 10 years, and I wanted them to have the equal amount of experience on television. Someone that has been in for a decade and I’ve got that person today. We’ve been talking behind the scenes, we’ve become friends, I actually even joined a little virtual Mastermind because I really wanted to get to know this guy before kind of bringing him in to talk to you guys about television, but welcome Tony Javier to the show today. What’s happening buddy? Back for part two. What’s happening man?
Dude, I’m glad to be back for more, man. That first one was awesome and I’m ready to rock and roll again.
Right. So again, someone didn’t catch last week, you can just go back and catch it. But Tony, what’s your credentials as an investor? How long have you been in the game? What gives you the right to come in and talk about TV?
Yeah, I’ve been in the game for 20 years now, man. I started in college, ended up dropping out of college with nine hours left to graduate, which I still get crap from my mom about, but it turned out fine. I got into real estate, bought an info product on TV, No Down Payment by Carleton sheets, put it to work, put it to action, and 20 years later, I have done close to a thousand flips, I’ve got a large rental portfolio, own coworking space, have a lot of real estate based businesses, and I just work a few hours a week in my business. Part of it is because of TV, part of it is because I have a great team, and just love this business. How you can take one thing like TV and just blow it up and just kind of makes your business.
I love it, man. So the way we’re breaking this down is really kind of the 10 benefits of television.I want to recap last week, just in case you don’t go back, but you should. I’m going to give you just a recap because I’m nice like that. So here, last week, credibility, absolutely on television. We talked about celebrity status, just like radio, and you gave some great examples of people when you go into the market, you advertise and they are like, “I recognize you. I don’t know. You’re someone, ” or, “You’re that guy from TV,” which is hysterical, which is funny, you actually don’t get that with radio.
They’ll recognize your voice, but they’re not seeing you where they’re actually seeing you, which is cool. Again, virtually no competition was number two. Number three, we were talking about ROI. Again, right in line with that three to $5. But in your world, you’ve been able to push TV up to five to $10 return. We were talking about your numbers last year, literally at 10X on your TV because you’ve got this dialed in. That’s amazing, and that’s a no BS number. I pressed you on that. I was like, “You got the data 10X?” And you were like, “Yeah,” and we walked through that, which is great. It’s automated, I like to call it set it and forget it, and you’d like to call it automated. And of course, lastly, which is a unique one, you talked about literally it was seven figures of the amount of money that you raised because of the credibility of TV.
So let’s hop back in on the back half of this starting with number six, right? And I like this, a high ROT. I was like, “That’s catchy.” Not ROI, ROT, return on time. What type of time does it take to do this? And why do you call it a high rot, and give us more than just set it and forget it. Take us a little bit deeper to practically how this has affected your life.
Yeah. So you hear some people talk about cold calling and texting how the return on investment is so high, right? It can be a really high return on investment, but what’s the time it takes? You got to buy the list. You got to hire the cold callers. You get good ones, you get bad ones. They quit, you fire them. Some people do cold calling themselves. You get people to hang up on you, tell you to screw off. There’s so much time and moving parts to other forms of marketing. And I talk about cold calling and texting because usually those take the most time even though you get a higher return on investment. But for me, I like return on time. Anything that I do right now, I love return on time. I invest in other people’s real estate deals, return on time. If I invest in a business or spend time in a business, I want that time to be as small as it can be for the highest return, right? I used to be the other way around.
I used to spend so much time in businesses wanting to make them happen, spend so much time to get a little return. Well TV, we get a huge return on investment and I barely have to manage it. I told you on the last show, I probably spent a few hours messing with TV last year. I shot a couple of new commercials, which I did all in one shot. I have looked at the data here and there, but the thing is, I see deals come in from TV because when my team sends me a deal that they put in a contract and they’re doing, they tell me where it came from. As long as I keep seeing TV come through there, we don’t really touch it. We know we’re getting return on it.
Last year, we did tweak a few things and my media buyer does a lot of work for me to be honest, hopefully he’s not listening to this, I don’t want to give him too much credit. But he’s done a lot of the work because he’ll come to me and he’ll be like, “Hey, do you want to change things up?” And I’m like, “I don’t know. Talk to my team. They can show you some data.” And so they’ll tweak it every once in a while. But honestly we’ve run… I have a commercial that I shot in 2012 that we still run to this day and rerun that most of the time. And then every once in a while, like I told you, I shot a couple new commercials, put them in there just to see if there’d be any change in data. And we still got good results from it. So we’re kind of sprinkling in different commercials just to have a little bit of freshness to it.
I love it. Radio, people are like, “Well, you change your ad every six months,” [inaudible 00:06:46] running pretty close to the same ad for 10 years? Occasionally we just feel like we should change it up and change it up. But it just delivers and delivers and delivers, and I love that about TV. I’m glad that, if you’re listening, what you’re really saying Tony and I think it’s a good principle is, you can brag about ROI on an outbound prospect and piece. And again, we’re not telling you, if you’re new, and texting’s working for you [inaudible 00:07:11], we’re not telling you to stop. But just because you’re getting a one to 20 return because text blasting is so inexpensive, you have to calculate the ROT. And so I would much rather get half of that return and be working a tenth of those hours than to get double that return and be working 10 times more. So I love the combination of ROI, return on investment with ROT, return on time. So let’s go to second question, Tony, right?
How scalable is television? Can we do it in other markets? Do I need to do it in my own market? Can I spend tens of thousands of dollars in a city on this? What is the potential, particularly, if I’m seasoned and I’m listening to this, I want to know, if I put the pedal to the metal on this bad boy, what can it do? Yeah.
So, if you were to do, and I compare other marketing methods, right? So with let’s say direct mail, direct mail is somewhat scalable, but the problem is, is that in order to scale direct mail, you have to find a new list, you have to produce a new piece, you have to do all of these things, right? With TV basically you turn the dial up and down. My media guys have been doing this for 20 years now. If I say, “Let’s test it and increase the marketing budget,” all he’s got to do is go in there and turn up the volume, right? And we’ve tried different price points, right? So we’ve been able to turn up and down the volume pretty easily. And we finally found the sweet spot of where we get the most return on investment. That’s why our numbers are so high right now.
And you mentioned it, other markets, it’s so easy to do it in another markets. With our coaching program, we’re getting investors online within 30 days, right? So if I decided I wanted, and I’ve got people doing multiple markets, right? So I’ve got one guy in three markets, a few guys in two markets, and they’re looking at other markets. So you get your production down, you get your message down, you get all that down. All we have to do is help you go find the TV stations and the shows in the other markets to put that message into and scale it up and help you grow in multiple markets. Because that’s the big thing right now, right? Because people’s market are so competitive right now that they’re going into multiple markets, right? So you have something that’s high return on time that doesn’t require a lot of work, that you can just go in that market, plug it in, test it, tweak it and start your buy in in that market pretty quickly.
I feel like this thing’s got a lot of versatility to it. I can spend a little, I can spend a lot, right? I can scale it, I can keep it small, it still works. I can do it in my town that I live in, I can go into multiple markets. I like a marketing channel that I don’t really feel like I’m boxed in and I can’t do a lot with it. And so I love the fact that what I’m hearing is just how versatile television is, whether I’m brand new to the game, this works for me. And if I’m seasoned, I can do some big things with it. And again, does it surprise me? Very, a lot of overlap with radio. I see it work really well for new students, and then we have students that come in and just blow it up. And so it’s just so cool to see the similarities here. Of course, it’s authoritative marketing. Television and radio are cousins and that’s why we’re seeing all these great benefits that you’re talking about with television.
So very cool. So what’s the quality of lead again? Again, let’s compare it to direct mail. Let’s pick on direct mail a little bit here, right? I define direct mail as really high volume, really low quality lead. Over half the calls are calling to tell you how much they dislike the fact that you put the mail in their mailbox. So give me a typical call on television. It’s ring, ring, you pick up, and who’s on the other line? What’s it feel like?
Well, I’m going to pick more on cold calling and texting again.
Okay. That’s [inaudible 00:10:58].
And again, we do a little bit of texting. We don’t do any cold calling just because we had so many people just get so upset about it. The thing about cold calling and texting, you’re going to hit people, they’re going to get upset. They may say, “Yeah, maybe I’m thinking about selling,” but they’re really not selling. They’re just wanting to know what their house is worth and that kind of thing. If someone sees a TV commercial, they get up off their couch or maybe they’re still sitting on the couch, they take the time to pick up the phone, dial the number that’s on the TV, or remember it. That is a higher quality lead. The other thing about that is, is that because, and actually that might be one of the benefits later, I can’t remember. But because they are seeing you on TV and there’s nobody else on TV, you’re probably going to be the only one they’re talking to at that point.
So the chances of you getting that deal and getting it at a better price because you’re not competing with five to 10 others that have bought the same list to call you, text you and mail you is going to be again so much easier to get that deal done and get a better deal on it and not have to compete so much.
Absolutely. So can I also say then that the call volume is lower and more manageable? So if I’m new and I’m listening to this, and go and do, “I can’t manage 500 calls a month,” what’s the call volume off of television? Is it lower volume, higher quality? Where’s it on that spectrum?
Yeah, it is lower volume. It’s lower volume, higher quality. People will ask me, “Well, what’s the cost per lead?” And I’ll go into the cost per lead, and it’s like, you know what? I look at the ROI. Cost per lead for cold calling, texting, 10 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever the number is for a lot of people, it’s pretty cheap. But how many of those do you actually convert and how much money are you making on those deals? I’ve done a couple of deals in the last few months, we made a hundred grand on one deal and we made 50 grand on another off of TV. We get our big hits off of TV commercials, we don’t get our big hits typically off of, I mean, we get some big hits on some other things, but most of the big hits we get are from TV and it’s because again, I think the competition is lower. We’re the only ones going out, we’re not competing with anybody else, and we’re getting that deal done.
Love it, love it. Every good quality leads that we’re talking about coming through off this as well. And again, we talked a little bit about it on the last show, it’s just so much nicer to start with a seller that already knows you, likes and trusts you without ever talking to you because you utilize something like TV versus starting from the very scratch of, “I spammed you, but you responded to me because you have to sell,” and then starting the journey down to know you, he trusts you. The other one’s like a quarter mile jog is TV and then I feel like it’s a 10 mile run [inaudible 00:13:48] these other ones to get down to that trust factor and get that appointment set. So I love your approach here, right? A lot of people are like, “How complicated, how difficult is the setup?”
We always have to remember Tony, let’s go back. If I was in the business a year and I heard the word TV, I would be nervous, right? That’s television, right? So I get that feeling and you know what’s funny? I actually don’t even think I’ve ever thought this until we had this conversation. Tony, when I went on radio, I was really nervous because it was such a big thing that I was going to be on radio. And now that I do, I’m just like 10 years is like eh. But that’s true for anything that we get familiarity with. So let’s talk about the setup of TV. How difficult is it to do? And your program, how are you supporting people to get this done? And efficiently particularly if I’m new and I don’t know a lot about real estate.
Yeah, absolutely. So when I started eight years ago, I didn’t know how to be on TV, I didn’t know which scripts to do. I didn’t know anything. I had to start completely from scratch. And so I just had to figure it out along the way. I wrote a script, I recorded it, I tweaked it over time, I changed it. I just did so many things to my commercials that now I know what works and I know the things that don’t work. There’s elements we’ve added to our commercials that we just tested, that are like, man, our call volume just dropped. And then there’s commercials we’ve done that are like, okay, these commercials are doing well, so we’re going to keep those and continue to do those. So I’ve got a formula that I use for all of my commercials now, it’s a five point formula. And as far as doing commercials, if you’re starting out from scratch, that’s why I created this program with your encouragement of course, is that if you go and do it on your own, could you do it? Could you do well with it?
You probably could, but we streamline the process. You don’t have to produce the commercial yourself. You don’t have to come up with the scripts. You don’t have to go find the TV stations and the TV shows that you need to be on. We will find those. We will negotiate with those stations for you and do all of that for you. So we make it so easy in our program to make that happen so that instead of it taking months for you, in fact, I talked to someone the other day that signed up for a program and he’s like, “I’ve spent six months on this before, trying to find the right stations, trying to find the production team, trying to find,” he had a media agency that had never done TV ads for real estate investors, pitch them this big program, where he was going to pay tens of thousands of dollars for producing the commercial. And they had no data behind it, right?
So we make it as easy as possible for utilizing our data, our stats, our media buyer. It’s pretty much done for you, but we call it done with you because there is you having to approve the scripts, approve the buys, and potentially shoot the commercial if you want be on it.
Absolutely man. And that’s great. I love the fact that you’re coming through and just again, things like this can get complicated. And if I sign up for coaching, here’s my mindset. I really expect you as much as possible to try to hand it to me on a platter ready to go. That’s what I want in coaching. So I don’t know-
That’s what most people want.
That’s what most people want, but that’s not where you get a lot of times when you pay for coaching. Its like, “Oh, I didn’t know I was going to have to create this, and do this, and blah, blah, blah.” And I’m like, “Man, if you’re paying for a program, it should fundamentally be a plug and play.” And so that’s what I feel like you create, is a plug and play. You take what’s worked in your business, for you Tony, and you’re just plugging into someone else, and they can come in and add whatever little twist they want to kind of make it theirs, which I think is cool.
So let’s go to number 10. Let’s talk about conversions, right? These are high quality leads, but what are we seeing on conversions? These deals being easier to close, et cetera. What can we tell us really about that aspect of these leads in TV?
Honestly, I don’t have that data. I don’t track conversions to be honest with you, but I can tell you that… So we talked about return on investment, right? So I gave you the stats in the last show. We’re getting over 11 times return on investment and the return on time is ridiculous obviously, because I don’t spend that much time in it and it brings in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. But the thing that I didn’t mention was that people when we come out, they will see our postcards let’s say, we do a little bit of direct mail. If they see our postcard, and they see five others, they will call us before they call the other postcards because they’ve seen us on TV and they know us and trust us. Sometimes, they only call us and they don’t call any others, which makes it way easier.
So to answer your question, I know for a fact it’s easier for us to convert leads because they know us, they see us on TV and they’ve told us many times, “Joe Schmoe sent me a postcard,” or whatever it is, “But we called you because we’ve seen your TV commercials, we tied the two brands together and here we are.” And actually those numbers, I don’t even put into my return on investment. If someone calls us from a postcard and says that they saw our commercial and that’s why we called you, we don’t count that as a TV lead, we count that as a postcard lead. And we found that there are people that will see our commercial, Google us, and then we get to closing and they’re like, “Yeah, I told you I found you on Google. But actually now that I think about it, I saw your TV commercial then I googled you,” right? So there’s a lot of those leads that I’m sure we’ve converted that we can’t allocate to TV but are TV.
So to answer your question, I know for a fact that our conversions are better and easier but I can’t tell you that I have the data to show them.
Well, and again, if I’m newer to the game and let’s say, I haven’t really sharpened up my sales skills, because again, I’m stepping into real estate, I don’t come from this massive sales background, I want to be able to come in and if I can get a lay up on a deal, I’ll take it. And the reality is if I got to go up against five other wholesalers and fix and flip guys, that isn’t going to be a lay up deal, I’m going to really have to step up on my sale side, and I’m like, “Oh man, I hate this competition.” I really do feel like on something like television, which we get on radio is, you get those laps, you go out there, they already like you, you’re the only one there, “Yeah, I want to do a deal.” You must know what you’re talking about, you must be experienced because only experts advertise on the TV. I know that they automatically make that assumption. This is awesome.
So again, you’re tuning in, right? And you guys have been asking me for this for the last year. So we’re excited, I’m finally able, Tony knows, I’ve had people hit me up and I’m like, “Hey, I’ve got an answer for you. Tony. Call Tony because everyone’s going to bombard me about this.” So I’m super excited for the tribe to be able to roll this television out. So your program that you’re doing right, as we said, this is a done with you system, it’s a plug and play, it’s everything you need. And on top of that, Tony, you’re doing exclusivity because you’re going to preserve it, right?
Absolutely. Yep. Only so many spots per market.
Only so many spots per market so same as radio, and I know from our students on radio, they love that. This is true, Tony, I’m going to say, [inaudible 00:20:52], I asked you [inaudible 00:20:53] “You want to do a podcast?” And they’re like, “No. I’m not going to say anything on public radio about the [inaudible 00:21:05]” “Nope. Nope. I’m not the shark.” So it’s so funny to me, so I know with television, stuff like that, you can just see some great returns and some impacts in your business.
So as always, here’s where you go, right? Everyone’s like, “Hey Chris, talk to Tony. What’s that going to look like? Give me a link to go to.” So here’s what it is, it’s realestatemasterstv.com/chris. Again, realestatemasterstv.com/chris. Go to the website, take a look, size it up. Again, if you want to do TV, jump on this thing because again, Tony, how many people call you to want to get on radio and then call you back and be like, “Dang, I can’t get in my market.” How many times?
They are so many times. They’re like, “Man, I could not get in,” and you could tell how upset they are. And I’ve actually sold a few of those, actually a lot of those people on the TV program. Because they can’t get into the radio program.
So again, we’re just telling you guys that because we want to make sure we’re taking good care of you. It has happened on radio again, we’re twelve months in, and if you’re listening to this, this is the first time TV is being delivered as an opportunity for you guys, to the Wholesaling Inc tribe. So I’m excited about it. So man, so glad Tony you and I connected, so glad that you have as much experience on television as I do radio. I felt like this was like the perfect marriage, right?
Oh man. It’s like we’re long lost cousins, man. We should have met a long time ago.
So funny. I feel like I said on last podcast, I feel like I’m just interviewing myself. It’s like this strange [inaudible 00:22:37] time because everything you’ve experienced is exactly what I experienced but it makes sense when you think about it, it’s logical. So thank you guys for tuning in. Tony, thank you for joining us. And until next time, we will catch you soon when we add more value, talk to you later.