Posted on: December 02, 2020

If you have been wholesaling for quite sometime, it is likely that you are aware there are countless marketing channels for you to pick from. However, there’s no denying two of the best marketing channels available are cold calling and radio. So which of the two is right for you? Tune in to find out!

No less than two of the best coaches in the real estate space are hosting this special episode—Brent Daniels and Chris Arnold. Together, they compared radio and cold calling side-by-side. From cost to scalability to benefits, Brent and Chris examined it all!

If you can’t pick between cold calling and radio, this episode should you give you all the clarity you need!

 

Key Takeaways

  • Cost of setting up cold calling
  • The advantage of developing the skill of talking to people
  • What those who want to try radio need to know
  • The difference between prospecting and marketing
  • Where cold calling falls on the maintenance spectrum
  • How cold calling is ranked in terms of maintenance
  • What maintenance and setting up is like when it comes to radio
  • Dollar-for-dollar returns for cold calling
  • Overall scalability of cold calling
  • What the future of cold calling and radio looks like
  • Where to go if you want to try TTP
  • How people can find out more about REI radio
  • The best and most valuable tools they can recommend

RESOURCES:

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Episode Transcription

Chris Arnold:
Welcome to the Wholesaling Inc podcast. I’m your co-host Chris Arnold. You heard me say it. Co-host. That means because I have another co-host with me today, the man, the myth, the legend, I like to call him Senor TTP. What’s happening, Brent Daniels? Glad to host the show with you today.

Brent Daniels:
I’m excited about this. I want to bring a ton of energy. This podcast is really about clarity. And that’s what I think is really important here because you’ve got an incredible program and I think a lot of people don’t… I don’t think you toot your horn enough, and I don’t think people understand how many thousands of deals that you’ve done, and been involved with, and the network that you have, and the amount of real, real, real, true experience that you bring every time to the podcast. Maybe they do, but I just want to say it’s incredible being on here with you. We’re going to fire this thing up, and we’re going to have a really good time, and we’re going to talk about the difference between radio, and cold calling, and TTP.

Chris Arnold:
That’s exactly what we’re going for. This is going to be a side by side comparison of these two marketing channels, so that if you’re listening and sizing up what you want to do next year or what’s the best fit for you, we’re literally going to do seven levels of comparison, head to head, radio versus TTP. So before we jump into the meet, two principles that Brent and I want to give you. So number one is this, we both believe that every marketing channel works if you work it. So we’re not saying that cold calling is the thing that’s going to solve the problem in your business, radio’s not a magic bolt. They all work if you work them. And then the second thing we both believe, we were just chatting about this, is the fact that it’s about what’s the best fit for you. So I always compare it, Brent, to dating or marriage. There’s a lot of different options out there. You just got to find what’s the best fit for you, your personality, your style, your values. And I believe, and I know you do, the more you find a marketing channel that you love, that you’re passionate about, not something that you hate that you’re doing, the more successful it’s going to be. It’s super obvious.

Brent Daniels:
Yeah, it’s one of those self-awareness things, of course, but I think going back to the principle that you talked about, this business works if you do. This marketing channel will work if you do. You have to be able to set up in your life, in your schedule, in your priorities, when you are going to commit to responding and having communication, and having a quality conversation with the stressed property owners because to put it very simply, Chris, what we do, what wholesaling is is we find deals. We source real estate opportunities. And there’s a lot of different ways to be able to open up that conversation. It just depends on what your schedule looks like, it depends on what your personality’s like, and it depends on how you want to structure and build the foundation of your business.

Chris Arnold:
I 100% agree. So are you ready to get after this? You ready?

Brent Daniels:
I’m ready.

Chris Arnold:
Take the gloves off a little bit.

Brent Daniels:
Let’s go. Let’s go.

Chris Arnold:
So comparison number one, cost. Let’s talk about cold calling. What is the short term cost of setting it up? What is the longer term cost? What can someone expect with cold calling around cost?

Brent Daniels:
This is a great question. And really, what your cost comes down to is the data because what you’re doing when you’re being proactive, when you’re picking up the phone and you’re calling somebody is you’re really trading your time, and efforts, and skills for a lot of the upfront marketing cost that is typically involved in our business. So what you’re looking at there is… What I always suggest is get 1,000 addresses. Okay? Get 1,000 addresses of properties, either from driving for dollars, or you pull a really good distressed property list, whether it be preforeclosures, or tired landlords, or tired multi-family, or vacant land. Any of these lists, I want you to get about 1,000. And it’s about 15 cents an address to skip trace.
So right there, you’ve got $150. Now, you have the choice right then to either hand dial it, which takes a lot of time, or to give it to some sort of internet dialing system, which typically costs anywhere from about $100 for the base cost of it, to about $150. So all in, you’re about $300, depending on if you’re paying to buy those lists or if you’re sourcing the lists from a service that you already have, or a PropStream, or something like that. And we can talk about how to get access to that later, but typically, what I would say is about a #300 to $400 a month is what I would say you need to budget to start really building some momentum. Start really building up that pipeline of leads.

Chris Arnold:
Okay. And what about long term? If someone gets to the point where they’re going to bring on somebody to do the cold calling, I don’t want to do it anymore, they’ll get more of a sophisticated system, what’s an average range you see down the road, in a little bit more of a phase of, let’s say, growth, like it’s running?

Brent Daniels:
Once you get to the point where you’re building that momentum, or maybe you have a budget where you can hire somebody off the bat, which a lot of people don’t, but some people do, a lot of people opt to test out the waters with a foreign cold caller, somebody either from the Philippines, or from South American, or Central America. And typically, that costs you between $8 and $10 an hour. Now, you could get that for four or five, but remember, quality if important. So $8 to $10 an hour, I would suggest a minimum of 20 hours a week. So now, you’re starting to scale this thing. You’re getting 20 hours of somebody else’s efforts for around $200 a week or $800 a month.

Chris Arnold:
Let me ask it this way. Would you say that most people are spending under $1,000 a month to run their campaign on average, removing the outliers? Would you say that’s about right if I’m-

Brent Daniels:
So it just depends on where you’re at, but I would say absolutely under $1,000. And this is great. I’m glad that we’re breaking it down like this because this is a question that I get a lot. But most people that come into the TTP family, into the program, they’re going to be making the calls themselves initially, and I always encourage that. I think that it is such an advantage in your life, not just in wholesaling, not even as as entrepreneur or business person, but in your life to talk to 1,000 strangers and ask them a question. It’s a skill that stays with you forever, Chris. You know. You’ve talked… You’ve called up everybody around-

Chris Arnold:
[crosstalk 00:07:44]. I built my business on cold calling. You know I’m a believer. That’s where I started. It was picking up the phone, man.

Brent Daniels:
Yeah, so I think that building up the skills yourself really enables to be able to hire the right person because you know what they’re going through mentally. You understand that sometimes you get fatigued. Sometimes your endurance isn’t as strong. Sometimes you didn’t sleep the night before and you feel all groggy the next day, but you still have to bring the energy to these conversations. So its understanding the mentality of the repetitious, almost boredom that happens. Well, it is repetitious boredom. When you’re calling for hours, and hours, and hours, and hours, you have to be comfortable with that repetitious boredom, which is much different than REI radio where you get a radio call in and it’s a shot of adrenaline. What are the costs for radio? This is a great thing because in my mind, and this is one of the myths that you busted a year ago for me, was I thought you had to have a voice actor, I thought you had to pay for 90 days or 6 months of ads in advance that were thousands of dollars. I thought that the barrier to entry for radio was so high. You’ve really given me a realistic dose of what that costs, but what can somebody start out with if they do decide to get into radio? And we’ll break down that that looks like.

Chris Arnold:
Yeah, I can give you the exact date because we’ve helped so many students set this up, east to west coast, small markets, big markets, you name it. So just so you understand, when we come in, what we do is we start on a station and we begin with 100 spots per month. So that is literally 25 spots per week, 5 spots per day. Dude, that’s a ton of frequency. We start at 100 and we finish at 100. We don’t go to 150, we just go to the next radio station and do another 100. So the average NREI radio when you look at what our students are paying monthly, it’s between $500 to $2,000 a month, depending on the size of their market, and that’s probably, I’d say, 80% of our students, minus some outliers, which means, here’s the crazy piece, that means that their 60 second spots, if you’re doing 100, are between $5 to $20 per 60 second spot. This is what I knew no one understood. This was the myth of the fact of, “It’s so expensive, I can’t afford it,” that kept people away for so long. But hey, it’s super simple. We’re talking about wholesaling. We’re talking about the art of finding things at a discount. We apply the same thing to radio. We buy radio at a wholesale rate. No different. And so I tell everyone the cost there is $500 to $2,000 a month to get started.

Brent Daniels:
Awesome. And that is… Let me ask you about this. And maybe I’m skipping ahead on some of the seven things that we’re going to break down here, but I think that one of the barriers and/or one of the hurdles that to get over into a marketing campaign is how long does I take to start seeing the results? You know what I mean? How long does it take to record your ad, to get it on the radio, to start getting calls? And in that time, do you lost steam? Do you lost momentum? Do you know what I mean? With cold calling, you can literally go out today, get an address, skip trace it instantly, and call them right now. Speed to execution is very, very, very quick. With radio, there’s a couple other steps there. How do you see people, when they commit to it, they’re like, “You know what? I understand the expectation is it’s going to take a week or two to get going, but then all of a sudden, I got people calling me on a radio ad. They’re not going to call me to yell at me, but they’re going to call me because they probably want an offer on their property.”

Chris Arnold:
All right, So let’s go there. Brent Daniels, we’ll jump around a little bit because that’s how Brent does. He just shoots from the hip. But that’s for another point, but I’m just going to move it up. Turn around time on set up and leads. So for us, on average, if someone comes into REI radio, to get everything set up, negotiated, to go down, record your ad, everything, on average, we say it’s about a 90 day set up. We have other students do it faster, but you’re going to be live in roughly about 90 days on average. Now, here’s the difference. And it’s a question I’m curious for you. So it takes 90 days, roughly, to get up and go. And again, we have students who’ll come in and do it under 30, you know how that is. I’m just giving really [crosstalk 00:12:12]-

Brent Daniels:
Of course. Of course.

Chris Arnold:
… but once they go live, here’s what I see. Most of our students are executing one to severs contracts within the first 30 to 60 days of going live. So a little bit longer to set it up, but I’m talking calls are coming in. Me, I get my students all the time, “I just went live two days ago and I’ve already had eight calls.” You know what I’m saying? “I just went live. In three weeks, I’ve got my first contract.” SO you’re seeing a little bit more time to set up, but really fast because here’s why. These people have never heard this ad before. They’re not list dependent, so they’re probably not getting texted, or cold called, or RVM, this is the first time that they’re receiving a call to action to help them for the position they’re in, so we see a quick turn around on that side. So what about cold calling? It sounds like boom, you’re up in a couple days, hitting the phones, but what’s the reverse side of that on what you tell students, “Here’s how long it’s going to take to really start seeing some momentum.”

Brent Daniels:
So there’s a couple different things to unpack there. Number one is, it’s about 92 days. From the first time you call somebody to the time we get closed, that’s the average in my company, and that’s the average that I’ve pooled out there with all of the TTP family members. And so it’s about 92 days. Now, obviously you can do it in a couple days, it just depends, but we’re putting out there the averages, so that people can have the right expectations because remember, there’s a different between prospecting for business and marketing for business. When you’re calling somebody, you’re catching them, most of the time, before they’re ready to make the decision, so there’s a lot more lead follow-up, there’s a lot more nurturing, there’s a lot more building the relationship over time. Now, obviously we do different things to shorten the timeline because time kills all deals. The biggest deals that you get, Chris, and I think you can agree, is when you’re just negotiating with the seller themselves.

Chris Arnold:
That’s why I like radio because a lot of times we’re the only people.

Brent Daniels:
[crosstalk 00:14:16]. Well, and you mentioned it two seconds ago, you said we’re not list dependent. Let’s be honest, everybody has, for the most part, the same lists, except for driving for dollars. If you can download a list for pennies, or you’re paying $97 dollars and you can download 10,000, anybody can do it. If you can download a list online, anybody can go after those properties. Now, whether or not they will is the different, whether or not they’re going to be able to build a relationship like you can is different, but you’re right. If you’re not list dependent, and it is marketing, and they’re calling you, typically they’re not calling every mailer that they have, and filling out every website that they have, and talking to multiple, multiple investors. So if you get those leads coming into you, which is strong for marketing, those are really amazing opportunities because you’re only negotiating with the seller. When you’re being proactive, when you’re going out there, when you’re picking up the phone, when you’re calling, and you’re prospecting, you’re going to run into some competition. You’re going to have to sharpen your skills as a presenter. You’re going to have to sharpen your skills with your prequalifying and your lead follow-up, for sure.

Chris Arnold:
Okay. So to answer that question specifically, on average, if you start cold calling with TTP, how long is it going to take you to execute-

Brent Daniels:
92 days on average.

Chris Arnold:
92 days. I want to make sure you guys heard that. Excellent. So lets go to maintenance. And when I’m [inaudible 00:15:41], this is number 3, maintenance, the difficulty of the launch that is the front side of setting it up, maintenance wise, just work wise, and then long term maintenance of again, let’s pick on direct mail a little bit, that’s high maintenance. Tweaking post cards, tweaking lists, dealing with mail companies, all of the hate calls that come in, that’s a high maintenance system. So where does cold calling fall on the maintenance spectrum from low maintenance to high maintenance, both on set up, front end, and then back end long term management?

Brent Daniels:
Its really once you… Chris, once you pull enough addresses that you want to go after, the most distressed properties in your market, you’re up and running. Now, its just doing it, but that is, in a sense, maintenance.

Chris Arnold:
It is maintenance-

Brent Daniels:
It’s effort. You have to put-

Chris Arnold:
You’re spending time.

Brent Daniels:
You’ve got to invest the time. You’ve got to invest the time and you need to be going after it, and going after it, and going after it, and you have to be consistent. The train never stops. Once the momentum gets going down the tracks, you got to keep up that momentum. You got to keep the consistency with your calls. From a maintenance standpoint, from a cost standpoint, it’s not really that much because you’ve got your dialer, you’ve got the lists, and you’re off and running, so there’s not a lot of things that you have to tweak. A lot of people ask me, “Do I have to change the scripts depending on which lists I’m calling?” The answer is absolutely no. You are just going and you’re asking them if they would consider an offer on their property, and you’re responding to one of six responses that they give you when you ask somebody if they would consider and offer on their property. So from a maintenance standpoint, from having to pull lists all the time and everything, you could set it up and have a really good pool of properties that you’re going after, but the maintenance comes from your endurance of being on the phone and having all these conversations.

Chris Arnold:
Let’s do it easy. Scale of one to ten, in comparison to all other marketing channels, ten being heavy maintenance, one being set it, forget it, where would you rank cold calling on that spectrum?

Brent Daniels:
I would say five. I would say right in the middle. You know what I mean? The beautiful thing that I love about prospecting and making calls is one, you can start having conversations and getting leads from the seconds that you start. You can start, you can have that conversation, and you’re literally one conversation away from going on an appointment. And I think appointments are actually interviewing for the opportunity to make 10, 15, 50, $100,000, so we should probably know what to do on these appointments. But you get the opportunity to get in front of people. And a lot of people that are in distress, they’re not going to take care of this problem themselves until it gets to the very end and they have to. So I like catching them in the process. I like starting the relationship and doing it. So its really building up your endurance, staying consistent with it, and just making sure that you understand that this is going to take work. It is going to take work and you got to be consistent. It’s not getting too analytical with your postcards, and your response rates, and did you miss a call? And you have to call them back, and all this other stuff because you’re catching people on your schedule because you’re making the calls to them, they’re not making the calls to you.

Chris Arnold:
I love it. I love it. And the thing I like about what you teach because you know my mentality, I outsource my [crosstalk 00:19:02]. I try to fire myself from positions as quickly as possible in my organization. I love with TTP though that you can build a team to run this thing without you. It’s not like you’re stuck picking up a phone and calling for the rest of your real estate investment career, so there is an exit strategy that’s built it. And through that exit, that’s why I view cold calling as over time, becoming potentially less and less maintenance if you treat it like a business and outsource it internally within your company.

Brent Daniels:
That’s it. I get 100 of calls, that I don’t do, a week and we have a million three business from making these calls, so I like keeping it at that level. I like keeping a lot of those profits because really, the cost involved versus what we make on our deals is fantastic. The spread between that, and we’ll get into that in a second because I know that one of the questions is ROI on here. But let me ask you this, Chris. Scale of one to ten, what is the maintenance like for radio? Are you doing new ads all the time? You know what I mean? Are you redoing these things? Are you doing different creative voices or whatever else? Or is it a set it and forget it?

Chris Arnold:
Yeah, this is probably one of the things I hear students say they enjoy most about radio. So setting it up, we talked about there’s that conservative 90 day window, so on the front end, there is some work to set up radio. You got to negotiate the ad, you got to get your ad recorded, you got to make sure your systems are set up, so I like to say on the front end, there’s an average amount of lift to get it up and going. But once it’s up, the radio station does absolutely everything. So from that standpoint, it’s a one or a two because all you have to do is pay your bill and answer the phone when it rings. That’s it because the radio is the one, as a station, managing everything for you. And no, we’re not coming in and tweaking ads all the time. We’ve been running really, the same two ads forever now. COVID, we got in and we changed it up a little bit, but that was circumstantial. So no, we’re not constantly going back, and recording, and changing, and tweaking, so forth. It’s fundamentally something you just put in motion with the way, obviously, we show you to do it, and you just let it go. So that’s why our students refer to it as set it and forget it.

Brent Daniels:
Well, and then let me ask you this because schedule has to come into the conversation of maintenance. So what is… And this is… I’m genuinely just curious. We didn’t plan this or anything, but I’m genuinely curious, what times of day do people get calls typically from radio? You know what I mean? I would assume it’s not 1:00 in the morning.

Chris Arnold:
No. It’s pigeonholed in because this is direct response. Call to action, hear the ad, call you. So we focus on the window of prime time, which is during work hours. So that means that roughly about 80% of the calls are going to come in when you’re in your office working. Some people will write the number down and maybe call you later on, but evening and weekend calls are very minimal because most people are driving down the road, hear the ad, call you right then. So this is what’s cool about radio. They’ll actually give you a pre-log, let you know when the spot’s going to air the next day, so you already know when your phone is going to ring because as soon as it plays, you’ll get one, two, three calls within that time.

Brent Daniels:
Love it. Love it.

Chris Arnold:
So it’s completely predictable on the actually call volume coming in.

Brent Daniels:
And that’s huge because honestly, most people are starting their wholesaling business either having a job, or they’re in the military, or they are maybe a stay at home parent, and they have different schedules, so you’re saying you can put it to your schedule. You can fit it to your schedule and figure out… Now, do you have any play on… Do you have any sway on when they’re playing your ads, Or you just know when to expect it?

Chris Arnold:
They’re within a window, so they’re between this time and this time, and they can play anytime in between there, but this time and this time is working hours fundamentally, that they play, so absolutely. So I’d definitely say it’s super low maintenance on the back end. It’s set it and forget it. Let’s go to number four, ROI. Again, I like to simplify this. Dollar per dollar return. For every dollar you spend, whatever that is, it sounds like it’s under $1,000 with cold calling, on average, removing outliers conservatively, what type of dollar per dollar they should see? Meaning for every dollar they spend, how many dollars are they getting back? What are you seeing community wise?

Brent Daniels:
When you’re making the calls yourself, obviously this depends on how much you’re selling these deals for. It depends on which market you’re in. Are you in a market that is under 100,000 for wholesale deals? Or is it over 300,000 for wholesale deals? But you’ve seen because that affects the ROI, but I’ll just tell you, in our business, we are about one to eight.

Chris Arnold:
I believe that.

Brent Daniels:
One to eight.

Chris Arnold:
That’s so inexpensive, so that’s one of the things I do love about cold calling is you guys are pulling in a really high ROI, which again, creates more profit spread with your overall business because it’s not an expensive marketing channel.

Brent Daniels:
Well, then and the beautiful thing, Chris, is we get so many leads that it keeps my acquisition managers fed. And they’re constantly warming them up, and following up, and keeping them in the pipeline, and we move them from they’re not really ready, but now we’re getting them, and now they’re warm, to now they’re hot, now we lock them up. So because of that, we constantly have so many leads coming in because we have a lot of horsepower. We have 100 hours a week of calls and having those conversations, so we’re averaging anywhere from 50 to 75 leads a week for our acquisition managers. And listen, a lot of those will never do business with us. Let’s be honest. But it gives them the opportunity to see if maybe they have other properties, maybe we can refer it because we’re licensed, we can refer it to an agent to list these properties, that’s been phenomenal. So there’s just a lot of opportunities coming in because we are going out there and reaching out to all these distressed properties.

Chris Arnold:
It’s a great return, man. Great return. With radio, we tell everyone, which is nice, conservative, and a lot of our students actually come back and go, “Oh, I’m doing a little bit better,” but I tell people to expect $3 to $4 return. So for every dollar you spend, you’re going to get three to four back. What I see that potentially breaks that is if someone comes in and they stay on one station, Brent, and their budget is $750 for that station, or $1,200, their returns are between five to ten because the law of averages is working in their favor. They close one deal, they just paid for the radio for the whole deal, but if you’re coming and you’re planning to scale, really build this thing at a bigger level, spend several thousands of dollars, I always tell you you’re going to land right between three to four. But here’s the thing, you’re going to be their consistency. You’re not going to get the fluctuations that you do with some of these other marketing channels. Its just tried and true consistent $3 to $4 return, which makes it dependable, which is something-

Brent Daniels:
Well, listen. If you do it long enough, and I firmly believe this, without a doubt, if you were consistent with your marketing channel, every 90 days, you should get a massive deal. you should. It should pop in there every 90 days. If you are staying consistent, you should be getting a deal that is $25,000 plus, $50,000 plus in some markets if you’re being consistent. And so that’s where the ROI just jumps through the roof. And with us, it’s not so much spending money as it is spending the time. You’re putting in a lot of time. So what I look at it is okay, how much are you making per hour? That’s what I look at. You know what I mean? And it’s a different mindset. It’s not so much of you’re incredible in setting the systems, and being a business owner, and doing all… I look at it like, how much am I getting paid per hour? Almost like an attorney. You know what I mean? Attorneys get paid three, four thousand bucks an hour. I always tell everybody, imagine that I’m standing there next to you when you’re making your calls. And every hour that you make calls, I give you $1,000 an hour. I would have to tear people off the phone. If I was standing next to anybody-

Chris Arnold:
It’s a great way to reframe that because you’re right, and that’s why I know that cold calling is a valuable piece. Let’s go to scalability. Again, what I hate is doing a marketing channel that I hit a low ceiling, and then it’s like, “Well, I can’t do anymore on there. I tapped out at $3,000, now I got to go find something else.” How scalable is cold calling, and also from a virtual standpoint? Meaning can I take this into other markets? So what’s the overall scalability?

Brent Daniels:
I love it. That’s the best part. It really is because here’s the thing. I could pull a list in your market, DFW, of 2,000 addresses, and I can get the phone numbers, and I can start calling them right now. I can start calling the right now and be able to test and see which lists are performing the best. Am I having good conversations here? Am I getting good quality leads? And because you can test out different markets, it gives you the availability to test out. If you’re in virtual, test out a couple different markets. The suggestion I give to anybody that is doing virtual is, test it out. Don’t assume an area is dead, don’t assume that there’s no business there because somebody told you that. Test it out for yourself. The beautiful thing is, you’re on the phone having conversations with these property owners. In 15 minutes you can start feeling out whether or not you want to be in that market before you commit all of your resources to that market.
So it’s huge because it’s very flexible, it’s very nimble, you’re able to pick and choose where you want to go. For example, we wanted to… Phoenix is huge and we love Phoenix, but we started testing out Sedona, and Prescott, and Flagstagg. And all of a sudden, within the week, we’ve got data and we’re like, “Oh, my gosh. We’re getting leads here. We’re going full force into these markets,” and it’s been a huge benefit for us. So I think that from your ability to expand and your ability to understand what is a deal in a new market, you need to get in front of sellers. And that’s the beauty of cold calling, is you can get in front of them and start having those conversations now, and start building up your deals. And then obviously, trying to get those sold to your cash buyers is a whole different thing in a virtual market, but it gives you the shot to get the real life, real nitty gritty experience that you need, which is being in front of those property owners.

Chris Arnold:
I love it. So yeah, with radio on scalability, it’s looked at a couple ways. Most markets are pretty large, mid-size to large markets, which means in your market, if there’s 25, 30 radio stations, you can spend literally tens of thousands of dollars in that market. Now, there are some small markets out there where I’ll say it’s not as scalable. You might have a handful of stations because you’re in more remote area, so I would say in that scenario, not as scalable. From a virtual stand point, completely scalable. With radio, here’s what’s interesting, you can go into a new market, and again, most people are going to go into a market that’s not competitive, which means they’re going to go into a smaller mid-size market where nobody’s in that sand box. That’s where everyone wants to be. You can throw up radio ads for again, $500, $1,000, $1,500, and you’ll literally know within a short period of time based on the call volume, and even within 90 days how hot that market is.

Brent Daniels:
Love it.

Chris Arnold:
And again, we have students doing this now, they’re coming in understanding how scalable radio is and they’re now going into other market, or, this just blows my mind, we have students that come in… I love our students. I love the ones that you give them the ball, and they just… Oh, my gosh. We have students, literally within the first 60, 90 days that will go up to seven to, we have one student at 15 stations. So they just get in, they see the value of it, and they snowball it. So my answer to that is yes, it’s scalable. The only caveat is if you’re in a small market, you’ll hit a ceiling, and you’ll need to maybe look at another market to keep the scalability going.

Brent Daniels:
Love it. Love it. And I think something that I find interesting, Chris, is the difference between the leads that you get from marketing, versus the leads you get from prospecting because I really want to make this point clear. And I touched on it a little bit. When you are reaching out to people, remember you still have to build credibility with them. You got to build that credibility with them and that comes down to your ability to prequalify, and what you do on your presentation, whether it’s over the phone, face to face, knee to knee, belly to belly, your presentation, your ability to communicate with them, and explain to them the process, and what your offer is, and what the terms are, and who you are, you have to do a lot better job. So you have to build up your skills of prequalifying, and lead follow-up, and your presentation, I think more with the prospecting than with the marketing because with marketing, they think that you’re a celebrity almost. You get that status where they’re not questioning what your website is, or where your business card is, or how long you’ve been in business, or some of these things that we run into when you’re prospecting. They already are convinced that you’re a professional company and you buy house.

Chris Arnold:
100%. Absolutely. And that’s going to be one of the benefits we’ll hit on at the end when I ask that last question. So I want to go to longevity. And I think this one’s going to be easier to answer on both sides. Is cold calling, and is radio going anywhere? Is it going to be disrupted? Or number two, is it going to get regulated to a point it no longer works, let’s say like texting or RVMing? I think we can both probably quickly agree that we both have longevity with what we’re teaching because cold calling’s been around forever, radio’s been around forever, and they’re not going anywhere. You agree with that?

Brent Daniels:
100%. And listen, when we talk about TTP, when we talk about cold calling, I’m not just talking about just calling distress property owners. Let’s say that the world crashes tomorrow, every cell phone carrier blocks any number that’s not saved in your phone, it just goes crazy like that, something bananas like that, they have some algorithm that figures out how to totally disrupt calling distressed property owners. Well, you’ve got a couple options. One, you can go to their doors, which listen, it doesn’t sound as fun, and it’s not as scalable, and I get it, but number two is you can build up an unbelievable referral network with real estate agents, with other investors, with people that you know. You can build a reputation for being the guy or gal in your market that buys ugly houses. You can start… It is about being proactive.
That’s what I mean by talk to people. Talking to people means going out there and just not waiting for the business, but going out and earning it. And you can do that by reaching out to a ton of different people. Now, obviously we’re fortune since the dawn of the telephone, we’ve been able to pick it up and call strangers and see if they would consider and offer on their property. And it’s been very strong in real estate. It’s funny, Chris, every industry, every industry, I don’t care if it’s insurance, I don’t care if it’s hotels, I don’t care if it’s realtors, they all prospect. They all cold call. They all go for it. Financial advice, everybody. Look at how many calls we got for the political campaigns. It’s just absolutely bananas. This is something that is not going away, being proactive. There’s always going to be an avenue to be able to do that.

Chris Arnold:
I love it. I love it. Okay, so let’s go to number seven here. And let’s just give three quick benefits of each one, so I’ll kick this one off.

Brent Daniels:
Yes, please.

Chris Arnold:
You asked me, “Chris, what do you think three of the best, or your favorite benefits of radio are.” Here they are, real quickly. Number one, virtually no competition. I believe it doing marketing where you’re playing at a poker table that’s not oversaturated. There’s virtually no competition on radio. Number two, authority, call it celebrity status, instant credibility. I love the fact that radio builds your brand and makes you a celebrity in your local market. And third, the quality of the call because they feel like they’re calling a celebrity. And when you talk to them, you’ll weigh down the know you, like you, trust you path with them already. They don’t feel like you’ve spammed them. They feel like, “Hey, I like this person. They’re professional. They’re on the radio, they must know what they’re doing,” and that’s where the conversation begins with them. So those are what I consider three of my favorite benefits. What about cold calling? Three of your favorite benefits.

Brent Daniels:
I love it. Number one, you’re on offense. You’re on offense. You’re trading the costs that you typically have to spend for marketing and waiting around for calls. You got to wait for these calls. And there is anxiety, at least that I felt, when you put out a bunch of money for marketing and you hope and pray that you get a return on your investment. When you are on offense, you are in control. You are having these conversations on your schedule. You’re able to fit it into your life. It’s not negotiating all the things you already have in your life to be able to drop everything to answer a marketing call. So number one is being on offense. Number two is the cost. Listen, there’s ugly houses down the street from you. You can go and find these ugly houses. You now have the technology to get those phone numbers and to call them right now. 15 cents. 15 cents. You don’t know if that call could be your first deal and now you’re off and running, you’re building up your whole business, and it’s incredible. And your confidence, and your experience.
And that’s the third one is the schedule and experience. When you can get experience in this business quickly, you are going to be more confident. All right? You’re going to be more competent. So if you’re having conversations every single day with multiple property owners about their property, you’re going to get better. Your skills are going to get sharper, you’re going to understand the things that you’re doing wrong, you’re going to understand that there’s only a certain amount of objections that you’re going to get from a property owner since the beginning of time. I don’t know why I keep saying that. I like that. Since the beginning of time, there’s only been a certain amount of objections that motivated sellers are going to give you, so learn those. And you get that by being in the trenches. It’s not theory, it’s experience. You go from faith to fact and that is so powerful. And you can do that right now, and that’s why I said those are my top three when it comes to being proactive in cold calling and TTP.

Chris Arnold:
There you have it. Side by side comparison of cold calling versus radio. I know this was valuable. Again, it’s one thing to look at one thing, and another what’s super valuable is to put those two things side by side. And again, I know today, what we want to do is just add value by allowing people to choose marketing channels that they feel like are the best fit for them. But the one thing I think I know you and I agree on, it’s important to be proactive and on the offense with things that are prospecting based, and it’s also important to set up marketing that’s inbound. So we both believe in outbound inbound approaches. It created an overall healthier marketing model. So if they’re listening right, they want to go, “Man, I like this TTP thing.” Brent, again, how do they get in the family? Where do they go?

Brent Daniels:
Wholesalinginc.com/ttp. Wholesalinginc.com/ttp, scroll down, check what it’s about, keep scrolling, and scrolling, and scrolling, and scrolling. Your mouse finger’s going to get very tired because there’s so many testimonials. Check it out, but I’m… Whatever. I’m just having fun here, but seriously, if it feels good in your gut, sign up for a call. I’d love to work with you personally. How about you, Chris? People are like, “You know what? I don’t want to interrupt people’s day. I don’t want to be on the phone for hours, and hours, and hours. I want people calling me that want to sell their property, they understand that I want to buy houses that need some renovation, that have some problems.” How do people that are feeling that, that are really understanding the vibe that you’re putting out with your REI radio, how do they found out more about it?

Chris Arnold:
At same thing, wholesalinginc.com/reiradio. Again, wholesalinginc.com/reiradio. I think most importantly [inaudible 00:39:50] is we are just at an age and a place in out lives where we get more joy and satisfaction of teaching, and adding value, and seeing other people become successful because it’s just super fulfilling. So one question to wrap this up, you and I, I asked you this question before we started because I was curious. Looking back on this year, we’re getting to reflection time and so forth, I asked you, because people see us as responsible for researching, providing them the best tools, technology, you go do your own research and I do mine, and I asked you the question, what tool did you present to the tribe this year that you felt, based on your students response, they said was most valuable to them? Because I was curious, because people want us to figure those things out for them. What was the best tool?

Brent Daniels:
Yeah, absolutely number one tool is ttpdata.com, which is PropStream. Ttpdata.com, PropStream, it allows you to really get an incredible amount of details on every single property. How much equity do they have? Estimated value. What liens are on the property? They filter it by distress with probates, and multi-family, and vacant houses, and divorces, and different little signals of distress. But most importantly, what I find that the TTP family members do is they go in, and it’s their tool that they use to find the valuations, and to make sure that they’re not going after properties that don’t have enough equity to be able to make it a wholesale deal. And then, they can make the determination if they want to do something creative with it, but most of the time, they’re going in there, they’re using it to pull really, really accurate comps because it pulls the MLS data around the entire country, and allows you to really… It’s just a tool that you need, so that you understand, is this a deal or not a deal? Because Chris, you know, as you’re starting out, that’s the biggest hurdle.

Chris Arnold:
Deal or no deal.

Brent Daniels:
Deal or not a deal. Yeah, it is. Deal or no deal is the biggest hurdle that you face. And what I’ve found is PropStream clears out all the clutter, gets rid of all… Gives you all the information that your look for, so that you can have a really good conversation with a seller that has the potential of doing business with you.

Chris Arnold:
I love it. That’s a great-

Brent Daniels:
How about you?

Chris Arnold:
Without question, and again, you always know because students come in and say thank you. I was even at an event and I had a guy walk up and go, “Thank you for this.” Everyone’s tired of having ten different log ins for ten different pieces of software. It’s an all a cart approach. I got to go into DocuSign for this, I got to utilize this as an auto-dialer, I got a separate KPI dashboard, or driving for dollars. So what I love and our students have is [inaudible 00:42:38] stored everything in one place. So the best way I can describe it, it’s a business in a box, it’s a one stop shop for every piece of software that you need, but now it’s all in one place, and it saved us $500 a month because we got rid of paying all a cart for every system and getting frustrated because they break down on how they communicate each other, and we got rid of all that, and went directly to [inaudible 00:43:02], which in my opinion, is the future of a CRM for real estate, and our students are like, “Dude, this is what I was looking for.” And I knew because I saw a lot of posts going, “Anyone got anything better than Podio?” So I was like-

Brent Daniels:
Well, and that’s the thing, Chris. The thing is, you were talking about it, the more places that you have to go, the more distraction that’s going to happen. The more creative avoidance is going to creep in and creative avoidance is that little thing tell you, “Oh, I got to work on this, and I got to pull here, and I got to go here, and I got to do this, and all of a sudden, you spent the last hour fiddling around on websites instead of following up with leads. Instead of going and setting appointments, instead of-

Chris Arnold:
It never stops. I have my COO half a day dealing with systems breaking down because they’re not talking to each other. So [inaudible 00:43:51] has done a great job. It’s 100 bucks a month, which I still don’t know how it gets away with that price because it’s so inexpensive. But yeah, if you’re interested, obviously, in that, you can go to resimpli.com/chris. And of course, forward slash Chris gets you that discount that you always expect us to go find for you guys and make happen. So I love this man. Again, you and I are close buddies. You’ll be down in [inaudible 00:44:19] in February, so think anyone listening knows, man, we have a great relationship and something happens when we get together. The energy just collides because we always have a great time. So thanks for being on today as a co-host with me. And to the rest of you guys, thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time. We will talk to you soon when we add more value. Talk to you later.

Brent Daniels:
Love you guys.

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