Posted on: November 27, 2020
WI 568 | Financial Freedom


If you’ve always wanted to change your financial future but don’t know how to go about it, today’s your lucky day. Rafael Cortez will guide you so you can start your journey to financial freedom right here and NOW!

Rafael Cortez is a real estate broker, investor, entrepreneur, and organizational psychologist. Rafael started his first business at 21 and launched his first company at age 23. To date, he is an organizational psychologist and real estate professional holding ownership in diverse companies across various verticals.

In this episode, Rafael shared all the basics you need to know to start your journey to financial freedom. Jam-packed with motivation, inspiration, and guidance from one of the industry’s best, this is one of those episodes you’ll listen to over and over again!

*For the entire week, we are offering $1000 of the tuition cost of each of our programs, Wholesaling Inc Tribe, TTP, Virtual Investing Mastery and REI Radio.

As long as you schedule your call by or before Midnight on Friday (11/27), when you join, you will still be entitled to the $1000 discount.

The Time Is NOW! With Rafael Cortez

Episode Transcription

If you don’t know what wholesaling is, wholesaling is the art of consistently finding discounted properties. If you can consistently find discounted properties, I don’t care what your credit score is, how much money you’re starting with and your experience level, you will find financial freedom. If you can get good at finding discounted properties, that’s what wholesaling is, you will find financial freedom. Myself and my guest Rafael, are here to help you do that. I can’t wait to get started, so let’s go.

It’s so awesome to have the wholesaling course coach on the line. I know that your business locally, for yourself, has been exploding. I know the student’s deals have been exploding. I know we’ve got a special thing that we’re doing for our readers but first, let’s give people some awesome information, stuff they can use. What is going on in your business? It’s exploding. You and your student are doing deal after deal. What is going on in this new pandemic world that we’re living in? What are some of the changes that people need to do bigger deals or more deals? What does all that stuff look like?

Everything has been so unreal and I want to break all that down one by one. The deals have changed since the beginning of 2020. Right around March 2020, everything hit the fan and things got scattered all over the place. The bottom line is that sellers have more options. I’m in Phoenix, Arizona, so Maricopa County is arguably one of the most competitive markets in the country. Sellers do have more options. One of the biggest things is that we have to dig in deeper. When we sit down, debrief and go over negotiations, deals and stuff like that. We’re noticing that we have to dig deeper to find better solutions to their problems. It’s not a matter of knowing how to negotiate anymore. Wholesaling now takes a lot more creativity than it used to a few years back.

Let’s talk about that. Essentially, what he is saying things are changing because sellers still want to sell at a discount, but they have more options. There are more wholesalers and real estate investors. When you say you’re deep diving, what are some examples? When your students are with a seller, what are some of the things that you’re doing that you’re saying specifically?

What are some of the questions? Are you spending more time with the seller? Are you getting there earlier? Do you want to go in last or first? How are you building that rapport in a newer and deeper way? Let’s get specific. Let’s give away some of that wholesaling course that you have. What are some of the questions that you’re asking? What are some of the things you’re telling your acquisitions manager and what does that look like?

It’s not a matter of just knowing how to negotiate anymore.  Wholesaling now takes a lot more creativity than it used to.

First off, we have to wrap our heads around the fact that sellers are sitting right in the middle of the ice cream aisle. They have 1,000 options to choose from. It’s not that they don’t want to sell. A lot of people out there still need to sell. They’re getting anxious about the market, tenants and all kinds of stuff, so they still need to do it, but they have a lot more options, so they get confused. It’s a matter of having a good discovery session with the sellers and finding out the underlying issue.

For example, I can think of one of the appointments that we had. Based on the lead manager info, the acquisitions manager went in thinking that it was all a matter of money, that the highest number was going to get the deal. After a deep conversation and getting to know that seller on a one-to-one basis, we have to do it fast. Otherwise, it doesn’t work.

Having a real educated conversation with that seller, reading between the lines, and then asking some of those good questions that we have in the wholesaling course, he was able to find out that it wasn’t even a matter of money. That’s what the seller was pushing but after a discovery session, going through the process of why multiple times in different ways, he found out that the real issue was not the money. It was that he had a relative that was squatting on the property and they didn’t want to have that tough conversation with them. They were not paying rent.

The seller is super anxious because they don’t know what’s going to happen with the market and the overall temperature. That was a problem with that. If my acquisition guy hadn’t shown up with the mentality to discover and went straight for the number, he would have never caught that and he would’ve just been vanilla, like everybody else coming to the seller for the property.

Rafael, I know that part of the wholesaling course is that you spend a lot of time on discovery, which is essentially the conversation you have with the seller. You talk about it because you know it better than I do. Tell us, what is discovery? What are some of those key questions? What are some of those responses that you’re listening for?

WI 568 | Financial Freedom

Financial Freedom: When we sit down, debrief, and go over negotiations, we have to dig deeper to find better solutions to their problems.


I know you said something that we all listen for as real estate investors, which is it’s not about the price, which we know those are our sellers when they’re saying, “I’m willing to give you a low price for speed and convenience.” Tell me more about the discovery. What do you take the Rhino Tribe through on this discovery? What is that all about? What are some of the key questions that people can use on their next seller call?

I call it the discovery. There might be a better term, but this is exactly what’s happening. You’re discovering and diving a little deeper into the real issue because you want to provide a good overall solution. The discovery starts during the lead gen process. There’s a series of questions through a script and the lead manager goes through it and everything. By the time acquisition shows up and they start having that conversation, there are so many things that we’re looking at, even before they get to the door.

In this case, even before they make that acquisition call, many of the appointments are not in person. You’re reading between the lines. If you have the opportunity, you’re looking at the property. As soon as you get access through the door, you start looking at the actual property inside and you look for clues. Do you remember the Where’s Waldo? game, where you had to find a whole bunch of stuff, and then you finally found Waldo? Finding the problem reminds me like that. It’s like finding Waldo in the middle of all that mess. There are so many things and it’s so noisy between the conversation, what they’re saying, and then what you see. If you don’t pay close attention to some of those key things, you’re going to miss it.

I’m a new student, I just came into the wholesaling course, and I’m meeting sellers first. I don’t know what I’m doing and what to say. What am I asking and listening for? What are some of those telltale signs that say, “This seller is willing to exchange for speed and convenience? They’re going to be probably willing to give me a low price if I could do this deal quickly.”

Rule of thumb, you want to learn how to make open-ended questions. Meaning, if it’s something that they can answer with a yes or no, your interview process or your negotiation is going to be lacking. It’s got to be open-ended questions so they can elaborate. One that I hear all the time is the condition of the property. “Is the property in good condition?” It’s a yes or no. Change that context and say, “Can you tell me a little bit about the property?” Open it up that way. Now they have to come in and then elaborate on that. They can’t just say yes or no.

It’s really just a matter of having a good discovery session with the sellers and finding out the underlying problem.

That’s one way of structuring an open-ended question. The whole conversation that we go through is designed to be open-ended. As you’re going through that conversation, you’re also looking at the property itself and picking up clues. “Are there moving boxes? Are there leaks on the roof? Are there stuff that’s expensive and the seller might be having an issue repairing?”

Rafael and I speak all the time about these deals, especially for his team and our students are doing. One of the things that he is always saying is, “When you ask these uncomfortable questions, don’t say a word.” I know it’s funny because we were talking about one of these deals and it’s so true when you are asking those questions that they can’t be answered with a yes or no. These are questions that some people say are open-ended.

Here’s the bottom line, these are questions that require a response. One of the biggest tricks that he and I speak about is, keep your mouth shut. After you ask that question, you’re going to be wanting to talk. It’s going to be uncomfortable. It’s like in that movie Braveheart where he’s like, “Hold.” You get such an amazing response when you can just shut up, for lack of a better term.

It’s more difficult than it sounds. When you drop it out there and the silence comes in creeping, it gets a little weird and uncomfortable. After a few seconds, if you speak first, you lose. That’s the thing. Granted, not all the time you’re going to be able to get the number. This is especially useful whenever you’re trying to get a number out of the seller or dropping an offer. It becomes uncomfortable at some point. Whoever speaks first loses the game.

Things have changed. I know that you’re exploding in a competitive market. Your students are doing well. What are some of the other things that you’re doing with this pandemic, with everybody being on lockdown? How are you navigating these new scenarios that have never happened before in your career or mine in 2020? What is different from 2019 to 2020? What are some of the updates you can give us, things at work that you’re seeing work for yourself and your students? What does that look like?

WI 568 | Financial Freedom

Financial Freedom: You want to learn how to make open-ended questions. If it’s something that they can answer with a yes or no, your interview process or your negotiation will be lacking.


Number one, we’re having a great year so far. Compared to 2019, most of our appointments used to be face-to-face, which goes for a lot of the wholesaling companies out there. It’s easier to negotiate it that way. 2020 is definitely a year to pivot. You can’t do the same thing. You can’t approach sellers with the same strategies. You have to pivot. If you don’t know how to pivot into your conversations that are going to be happening over the phone as opposed to in-person, there’s a lot of stuff that’s going to hurt you there. Despite COVID, this has been one of the best years yet. Mainly, it’s because we’ve stayed consistent in our business. Meaning that we did it when everybody was throttling back.

Consistency. This is why you guys are rock and rolling. It’s a keyword. It’s the main reason why. He’s being conservative here. One of the processes we do with coaches is a vetting process, so he’s not just doing well, but he’s absolutely crushing it. Consistency is the key. For me, it is the number two rule of marketing. The first one is go big, the second one is consistency, and I hope our readers know 3, 4, 5. It’s singularity, fast response and trackable. In 2020, consistency was a big part of your success. What is it specifically that you got consistent with?

We stayed consistent, more importantly. When everybody was throttling back in March, April and May of 2020, we saw a lot of people hold off on marketing and then stop what they were doing. In this business, if you stop that, you’re not going to get revenue in June, July, and August 2020. We didn’t know what to expect in my business because COVID hit, but we still stayed consistent with what we knew. We trusted the process, we followed the process, and we did see a dip there for a little while, but that was expected.

Sure enough, all that marketing that we did in those months set us up for the following months. As of the last quarter, it’s booming. Consistency is one of the biggest things that’s working out for us. We were able to stay on top of the changing times because we’re always looking at our KPIs, our metrics, we’re always tracking and we’re seeing what’s working and we can put our finger on it.

Meaning that if we have an issue in the business model, we can go back and see what stage that issue is at and come in, fine-tune it, and fix it. We were able to make the changes to the business and pivot, but one of the things that helped a lot there was creativity. Prospecting for us is consistent. We have some core marketing channels, driving for dollars, direct mail, cold calling, SMS, and stuff in place, but then we got creative with the marketing.

2020 is definitely a year to pivot. You can’t do the same thing. You can’t approach sellers with the same strategies.

We started looking and pivoting to find more effective pools of sellers. It’s a vanilla list, so everybody’s hitting that. We got heavier on the creative side and then created different avatars that work well. For example, stacking lists, pre-foreclosure, vacant and driving for dollars. That’s a good strategy to come in and then hit a whole different demographic because, after a period of time, you will be the one with that list. Nobody else has got one particular list.

The Rhinos are going, “Rafael, don’t give away all our secrets.” I know you have some new strategies and there’s a reason why Rafael is doing well. There’s a reason why the Rhinos are doing well with him. Rafael, you’re the first person that I’ve ever met that speaks faster than I do. One thing that he said was that he punched the gas. A lot of times, this is such a rookie, amateur mistake. Don’t make this mistake. When it gets a little turbulent, the first thing that many rookies or amateurs do is pump the brake, which is a huge mistake. You want to punch the gas and that’s one thing that I know Rafael did and his students did, and that’s one of the biggest reasons.

They found some new lists that no one else was working with and found ways to put lists together to identify the most motivated sellers that were willing to sell at a discount quickly for cash, but their strategy also pivoted quickly. That’s all because of another thing that he said, which was watching those KPIs. He is still a Rhino and his story was starting off in TTP. As a wholesaling Rhino, their number one deal is tracking KPIs and split testing. That’s the key, and because of that split testing, KPI tracking, he was able to pivot, take the whole tribe in a new direction where they’re crushing it.

A lot of investors have been talking about deal size. I know you have done things specifically to ensure that your deals are big, that they stay big, and they’re getting bigger. What are some of those things that you and the students are doing to be able to focus on that number and make sure it’s wholesome, repeatable and something that you want to scale?

The thing is that you make the money not when you sell it but when you acquire it. It’s the cardinal rule right there. If you lock them high, you’re not going to be able to push them and dispo them, and then make a dispense. The way that we have our negotiation, and it’s in the course as well, is we break it down into three different parts. We don’t go for one number and then create a spread off of that one number. We break it down into three different levels as we go through the conversation, as we go through the structure of the negotiation with the seller, and then we’re in the discovery session, and then we move on into an offer stage and then closing the deal stage.

There are multiple things that play into it. What we do is break it down into three different sections so we can get a bigger spread out of the deal. My KPIs, we’re around $23,000 per wholesale deal on average. There are deals that are a lot smaller. We closed one that’s $11,000 but the average stays around the $20,000, $23,000. That’s how we do it. We break it down into different sections as we go through the process and it works.

WI 568 | Financial Freedom

Financial Freedom: You can’t spend two days analyzing a deal because someone will have taken it from you by then.


I know you have that system that you guys use, which is there are three touches with the seller where there’s a price and you’re continuing to work that deal. That’s how you’ve been able to keep your assignments healthy and large during this change. That’s good stuff. What else is going on? Any other updates in the course? I know you’ve got a whole bunch of tactics that you’re teaching everybody.

We’re adding a lot of it. There’s solid information already in there, but we’re coming in and adding a lot of this stuff that we’ve found useful throughout the pivot. We’re talking everything about marketing, approaching sellers and how to structure the business. Even that stuff, as far as operating systems, how to structure all that stuff has changed because of COVID and the way things are moving now.

There’s a lot of things that play into it. We’re also going to be breaking down on how to approach, feed your buyer’s list, and keep those nurtured. If you’re looking at marketing, make sure you stack your lists of some of the gold stuff that everybody should be capitalizing on. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that concept, stacking lists.

I don’t want to say that he was a pioneer in this area because there were certainly a few people doing it, but he was one of the only guys that I knew that took this concept to heart, implemented it and split tested it. Rafael shows you how to get these highly specialized lists and there are multiple lists from different sources. He shows you a way to streamline it and then put them together to cherry-pick the best deals to laser focus on. This way, not only does it get you the deals as fast as possible but it saves you a ton of money so you’re not wasting marketing dollars, time, resources, energy and focus on deals that are never going to take your low offer.

If you’re already a seasoned wholesaler, most homeowners do not want to sell their homes. The homeowners who do want to sell their homes don’t want a low price. He has discovered a way to pinpoint and triangulate to figure out those on these specialized lists multiple times, and then go and specifically speak to those homeowners, make them an offer and do a deal.

We have that in place, but in addition to that, we do have a specific multichannel marketing process. We come in and then become the go-to person for that seller because they’re seeing us in multiple ways, not just through a phone call, a cold call or a text. It’s a variation of things. We have this particular process on how we break it down and we’re seeing great results with that.

That’s the kinds of stuff that we’re adding onto the course, and then we’re revamping some of the stuff that’s already in there. At the end of the day, you have to move fast and you’ve got to take action. You can’t spend two days analyzing a deal because someone will have taken it from you by then. This is something that you say all the time, massive imperfect action is okay, and that’s what we’re looking for here.

If you want to stop learning and start earning, this is the number one course in the nation. Rafael has taken this course and totally updated it with all new tactics to deal with the pandemic. This is a way for you to save money, get in, do a deal and change your financial future. Thank you so much for your time. I know you’re running around with the family, so go do what you got to do. Enjoy it. I’m looking forward to speaking to everybody when they’re inside the course. We’ll talk to you soon.

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About Brent Daniels

Brent Daniels is a multi-million dollar wholesaler in Phoenix, Arizona… and the creator of “Talk To People” — a simple, low cost, and incredibly effective telephone marketing program…

Also known as “TTP”… it helps wholesalers do more, bigger, and more profitable deals by replacing traditional paid advertising (postcards, yellow letters, bandit signs, and PPC) with being proactive and taking action every single day!

Brent has personally coached over 1,000 wholesalers enrolled in his “Cold Calling Mastery” training, and helped 10,000’s of others who listen to him host the Wholesaling Inc. podcast, watch his YouTube channel, and attend his live events…

A natural leader, Brent combines his passion for helping others with his high energy, “don’t-wait-around-for-business” attitude to help you CRUSH your wholesaling goals as quickly and easily as possible!

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