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Posted on: November 18, 2020

Today’s brilliant guest is convinced there is one real estate class you should be investing in right now. Curious to know what it is? Then you shouldn’t miss this episode!

This show’s guest is Dave Payerchin. Dave began his real estate career last 2005. In 2012, he joined forces with RJ Pepino and they began buying real estate properties in and around Central Ohio.

Dave and RJ are the co-founders and current administrators of the CREAM (Columbus Real Estate and Money) Group. Together, they have purchased, renovated, and sold over 500 properties. They have also successfully raised over $20 million dollars from private properties and banks.

In this episode, you will not only find out the asset you should be investing in right now, you’ll also discover how you can successfully build your rental portfolio.

If you’d like to run a thriving business amidst the current situation, this is one episode you can’t afford to miss!

Key Takeaways

  • What he’s seeing when it comes to demand
  • How he defines rural versus suburban
  • The differences between single-family versus apartment living
  • How he builds his rental portfolio
  • What a glorified BRRRR is
  • Why it pays to go for the longevity of a rental property
  • Where people can find them online

RESOURCES:

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Episode Transcription

Chris Arnold:
Welcome to the Wholesaling Inc Podcast. I’m your host, Chris Arnold, excited that you’re tuning in today. This is what we got in store for you. I got a question. What do you think the number one real estate asset class is to invest in right now? That’s a big question. There’s a lot of ways that we could be creating passive income, building our portfolio. Well, let me tell you what I got for you today.
I’ve got a guy that’s an expert, single family portfolio operator. That’s how he described himself. That’s pretty cool. That’s pretty sexy. I like it. So this is what you’re going to get by the end of this podcast. Why you want to stay tuned? We’re going to talk about this asset class and the top five reasons why you should be looking to invest here. So let’s rock and roll on this today. I want you to welcome my guest, Dave Payerchin. What’s up, buddy. Welcome to the show. You ready to rock and roll?

Dave Payerchin:
I’m absolutely ready to rock and roll, Chris. Thank you so much for having me. Unfortunately, my partner in crime, Mr. RJ Pepino, my business partner could not join us because his lovely bride just had their first child yesterday. So we’re dedicating this episode to baby Leoni. Who’s still in the hospital today, she healthy baby girl.

Chris Arnold:
That’s a big day, man. That’s exciting there out there, man. You guys got a lot going on.

Dave Payerchin:
Excited about that, but very excited to tell all of your listeners, why single family affordable real estate, especially in the suburbs by far and wide will crush any other real estate asset class out there right now. I’m ready to rock.

Chris Arnold:
Well, that’s a big statement. Let’s see if you can back it up today.

Dave Payerchin:
Lets go.

Chris Arnold:
So for those that don’t know, you, Dave, give a quick intro. How long you’ve been in the game, where you located, all that type of stuff?

Dave Payerchin:
Absolutely. Just a quick background is I’m a kid from Cleveland and right after high school. I packed up my bags and I was going to do construction. I went out and moved to Arizona, they were building houses, the year was 2000. I got a real estate, started wholesaling in 2005. I got crushed in real estate because I didn’t understand anything about finance in ’07 and ’08. But what I did learn from that experience in the financial crisis of ’08 was I wanted a cashflow. So I licked my wounds after that, hightailed it back to Ohio, which is in the Midwest as you know, and it’s great for affordable housing. That’s when I got started buying rentals in 2012 and my business partner, RJ and I have built a pretty sizeable portfolio here.
We’re continuing to buy we’re multiple markets, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Dayton, Ohio. And we’ve been through it all Chris, honestly, from beginning to end, every facet of single family, affordable housing from the finance, to the construction, to the property management, acquisitions, everything you can imagine. So we’ve seen it all. And I’m really excited to have this opportunity to share with you and all of your listeners. Some of the things that we’ve found.

Chris Arnold:
Go ahead, man, let’s do it. So I want to do this like a countdown, right? Everyone does the five reasons, why don’t we start at five work down to one? Have a little bit of fun with this. So the top five reasons let’s start with number five. Number five is demand. What are you seeing here when it comes to this side of demand for these particular areas?

Dave Payerchin:
So we’re coming out of a global pandemic. Okay. More companies than ever before are now allowing their employees to work from home. As you know, and in fact companies are finding themselves not only to be more profitable by getting rid of their office space and letting people work from home, but they’re finding their staff to be more productive as well. So people need the space guys. It used to be a thing when a couple was shopping or a family was shopping for a house, they wanted his and her sinks or his and her closets. Now people need his and her Zoom rooms. I’m coming to you from home, my lovely bride is out in another room. I’m sure you’re at home as well. In fact, more and more people are working from home. So the demand for space, nobody wants to be in an apartment right now.
So really we’re comparing single family living to an apartment. Could you imagine being in apartment and most people need to… If you have kids, they got a homeschool their children, mandated homeschooling. You got kids running around, you’re trying to get work done. People need the space. So the demand post COVID is through the roof. People need the space. That’s the number one reason I would say that is increasing the demand. Home starts and new builds is flying off the shelves right now. The real estate market is incredibly hot. There’s very, very little inventory out there in the single family space for the simple reason that nobody wants to move. If you have a single family house right now, you’re not moving into an apartment, God forbid, right? But every single person living in the department wants into a house, especially you’re working from home and homeschooling your children.

Chris Arnold:
Yeah. This is extremely logical. And I think all of us, whether we’re running teams and stuff like that, or we have friends that are now working from home, that whole dynamic of space will either make or break that process. The smaller the space, the more likely, right? That that structure is going to break down because there’s not room to work, to live, to teach your kids, et cetera. And the fact that this whole crisis has pushed people into needing bigger space because they’re going to be working from home, makes complete sense. I’d probably say Dave, there’s probably not been a time that, let’s say over the last X amount of time, it’s your going to probably see this type of push for this type of product because of this.

Dave Payerchin:
And we can even piggyback on what we’ve already stated, but there’re curfews mandated and curfews everywhere. More and more people are eating at home. You want a big kitchen. You don’t want to be cooped up in an apartment kitchen. And since we’re forced to stay home, wouldn’t you rather have the space? I think the space is a big thing and the yard, right? You want a yard. My family and I, we have two and a half acres here in Ohio, and this is really been the saving grace. We spend so much time at home. It’s nice just to get out, walk around and get some nature on your own property.

Chris Arnold:
I agree with that. And the people let me ask this feel like they might not be vacation as much either because of risk or saving on expenses. They least want to feel that they’ve got room around where they live to enjoy that. It’s funny, I know that pool sales have gone way up, right? People are building pools because they’re like, well, I’m going to probably do a little bit more staycation than the traditional vacation. Would you say that that’s accurate?

Dave Payerchin:
Think about it. A Peloton, the company people are working out at home. That’s through the roof, video game stocks and companies are making more money than ever before. The list just goes on and on of stay at home type of businesses are all thriving right now. And that just supports my thesis, that the demand for single family housing far outweighs any other real estate asset class. We’re just going to talk about residential living real estate. We don’t even need to get into retail real estate. That’s gone. Just might as well level office real estate. We’re not even going to go down that path. So really the gist of our conversation will be comparing it to apartment living. Everybody’s forced to stay at home and the stay at home businesses are thriving just for all these reasons.

Chris Arnold:
I love it. I love it. Now I want to take one step back. Will you define for us suburban because there’re suburban areas and then there’re rural areas, right? Now where you’re getting even further out past the city limits a bit of the smaller, more country towns. I’m a Texas guy, right? So we get calls in from some of those areas. Are you latching rural in with suburban or is there a distinct difference there?

Dave Payerchin:
The numbers speak for themselves. Both are blowing up. People want rural if they can get it, but worst case scenario, they’ll take suburban. I’ll tell you where people don’t want to be. And that will get us into another point, but nobody wants to be downtown anywhere right now. Right? So people are moving out. Let me ask you this. You’re a Texas guy. That’s great. Think about people in the most inflated real estate market in our country, the Bay area, California, right? People who are working for these big tech companies, prices are way over inflated, way through the roof, is so expensive to live there. And now your boss tells you that you don’t have to take a pay cut and you get to work from home. You’re hightailing it out of California.
I know so many people are just fleeing California right now, going to places like Nevada, where you could get big land. These over at New York City, people are vacating New York faster than anything, right? Nobody wants to be in these dense areas anymore. So yeah, if you can get rural is blowing up right now, land sales are blowing up right now. Home starts are blowing up right now, suburban home sales. There’s no inventory on the market. Because if you have one, you’re not selling it. And basically if you are selling it, it’s gone in one day and that’s the entire country right now, Chris.

Chris Arnold:
Yep. Absolutely. I’ll tell you where else they’re coming. They’re coming to Tulum, Mexico. Right. [inaudible 00:10:08].

Dave Payerchin:
I’m not far behind brother.

Chris Arnold:
They refer to themselves as the digital nomads. They have now shown up on the doorstep Tulum, and they’re here. So let’s go to number four. Fourth reason to look at this is because of COVID directly. What are we seeing here in relation to that?

Dave Payerchin:
Sure. And the point that I’m making here, Chris is in comparing single family to apartment living, think about it. In apartment living, you’re crawling all over each other, is legitimate fear. I don’t know what your sentiment is towards the virus, but we have to respect everybody’s sentiment and what they feel about it. A lot of people are really afraid of it. And when you’re living in that fear, you don’t want to be close to people. Unfortunately, it’s how it is. It’s six feet social distancing, the whole deal. Could you imagine living in an apartment where your neighbors are crawling all over you, not to mention you’re stuck at home the whole time, everybody else is stuck at home the whole time. And if you have fear of the virus, the last thing you want to be as close to your neighbors.

Chris Arnold:
The term that comes to me for that is I think people walk around with a little bit of suspicion now.

Dave Payerchin:
Yeah.

Chris Arnold:
You know what I’m saying? So I think that the way that I would say that is I would imagine that suspicion is going to breed the fact that people want some further distance from each other.

Dave Payerchin:
Absolutely. And that just goes to reinforce the space-

Chris Arnold:
Psychologically that people have for safety.

Dave Payerchin:
It’s crazy. Don’t you notice the difference? Even when you’re just walking down a hallway, I saw you recently out in Florida and we were in a nice event, but even strangers, people just don’t want to be as close to each other as we used to.

Chris Arnold:
It’s true. I’ll agree with that point. And definitely say that that’s another one chalked up for a reason why people would do that, makes complete sense. So let’s go to number three. Downtown Metro areas, what’s happening there that might not be happening in these rural, suburban areas? What are we seeing here as a potential, another motivation or something that’s influencing people to head out more to the country?

Dave Payerchin:
We, it is an election year. And like I already mentioned, it is the year 2020, the month is October. It is a very, very crazy world out there right now. People are rioting. People are protesting. Crime is through the roof in most downtown areas. I know it is where I live in many, many other dense urban downtown areas. There’re protests happening everywhere, vandalism happening everywhere. People are getting killed out there. I’m not for or against any of this stuff. I don’t even want to get into that, but it’s just happening. I’m not going down there. People are afraid. Why would anyone want to live downtown in the first place? Let’s ask ourselves that. Well, you want to be close to amenities. You want to be close to walking distance to parks, and basically restaurants. And the best restaurants and bars previously were in downtown areas.
Now nobody. My family and I, we used to go downtown all the time. We won’t even go down there anymore. It’s like a war zone quite honestly, the crime is through the roof. But people used to pay a premium to be downtown for those reasons, the amenities and walking distance. Now with the crime being so high, right? Why would anyone pay a premium to live in a downtown area setting? When the crime is through the roof, you’re crawling all over, you don’t have the space like we’ve already talked about and the amenities are gone. There’s mandated curfews, right? These restaurants and stuff a lot of them are going out of business unfortunately. The crime is a very much a factor on why. That’s why I throw the suburban in there. People would much rather be in the suburbs than in a downtown type of setting in today’s times unfortunately.

Chris Arnold:
Yeah. And I think you had a sub point there that I think is interesting. And the further you go away from the city and more out to the country, probably the less regulation, the less everyone watching you type piece, where you can get out there and feel like you got some breathing room, right. Not everybody’s eyeing you. So I can imagine people are like, not do I just want to get away from people for safety, but I want to get away from people so that whatever my belief system is around this, I can do my thing and not be bothered. So I think that’s another great point.
So let’s go down to number two. This is an interesting one, but we live in a culture now where the dynamic of this, again, I’m married to a wife that loves animals and pets and dogs. I laugh, Dave, we live in Tulum and we have a lot of what we call street dogs, right? So she packs the back car with these little food packs. And when we see a dog we’ll pull over and she’ll get out and pour it out and feed them, I guess. So I’m married to someone where pets and animals mean a lot. So what are we seeing here with this to continue to influence people in their decision making?

Dave Payerchin:
I have some very interesting statistics. And your listeners could fact check this because I was blown away when I just saw something on Facebook one day, and then I started researching and I’m like, this is unbelievable. But at first I have a question, you’re in Tulum. I’ve been through Central America, I’ve spent a lot of time in Guatemala and the locals all have a little secret, because there was wild dogs in many places. So does this work for the wild dogs on the streets of Tulum, Mexico? If you don’t want a dog to approach you, you just bend over and act like you’re picking up a rock and will it run away?

Chris Arnold:
That’s true. A lot of dogs that I have that fear because of rocks have been thrown and that’s actually-

Dave Payerchin:
Isn’t that funny? It works all over the world. And I highly encourage you and your listeners to check this out, but the demand for pets especially here in America, we love our animals here. Not [inaudible 00:15:45] up that way all over it. I’m really happy about the dogs there in Tulum. It’s so nice of your wife to pull over. Because I guarantee a lot of the locals are not doing that. Right. But here in America, we love our pets. And when we’re forced to be home, unfortunately, the sentiment right now is lonely. It’s one of lonesome. Statistically in all the studies that they’re doing alcohol and drug use is up and there’s a lot of stuff. People are stuck at home. The sentiment is lonely. So the demand for pets is at a 20 year high, in fact, many humane societies.
And you can share this with your wife. I’m sure she’s going to be thrilled when she hears this are sold out. They have no pets. People have embraced the pets and that further reinforces, Hey, if you’ve got a pet, most apartment living situations, won’t even let you have a pet. You’re stuck. It’s like a prison. Apartment living is basically like a prison at this point, you’re paying a premium for amenities that you can’t go to. Right? You’re not allowed to have a pet, but people want pets. We have two dogs, it was great. We got our last puppy right before the pandemic came. So we’ve been able to spend a ton of time with the dog and it’s helped us pass the time. It really is a loving, nurturing thing. Do you have pets, Chris?

Chris Arnold:
We don’t. We just take care of all the animals of Tulum.

Dave Payerchin:
Yeah. It’s really interesting. And you can check that out. The demand for pet and you know what? You know who’s making a killing right now? We talked about all the various businesses who are monetarily really boosted up from this whole COVID stuff. Dog breeders are charging double of what they used to. They’re still breeding. And the dog prices have gone sky high, humane societies are basically sold out and you don’t get that with apartment living. You don’t, you want a pet and people want pets right now, the numbers speak for themselves.

Chris Arnold:
Absolutely. It was funny Dave. You say this, I haven’t really connected my diet’s. Always interesting what’s gone up and what’s gone down. You hear something like, Oh, I didn’t realize that COVID would have affected that really positively or really negatively. But I was just out a little barbecue, and there were three other couples there that we went to the barbecue and two of literally all within the last month of those couples had gotten new dogs. I simply do not, but literally so that was more than 50% of the three people there. That’s couples got dogs.

Dave Payerchin:
You don’t even need to research it. You’re seeing it. You’re seeing it.

Chris Arnold:
It’s funny. I definitely see it. So let’s come down to this number one reason, right? On why people are making a move out to the suburban areas and why, if you’re building your rental portfolios, you should be doing this. Let’s talk about cost. What’s happening there?

Dave Payerchin:
Check this out. And I’m so excited to share this and we can really get into this. And this is going to provide a lot of value to your listeners. Right now, the interest rates are artificially low. We have rock bottom, ridiculously low interest rates. And the reason people say artificially low, what that means is low interest rates should be a reward for a country or for having a surplus of money. We don’t have a surplus of money. Our country right now is just printing money like crazy. It’s terrible. It’s actually bad for the economy in the longterm of what they’re doing, but interest rates are insanely low. Banks offering us money right now at three and a half percent. We can buy these things. So if you’re living in an apartment house, let’s stick to our comparison here and you’re paying a premium for the amenities that you can’t go visit and you paying a premium and you can’t have a pet and you don’t have the space to move around.
Anything like that. And the bank is willing to give you dirt cheap money, right? And if you’re buying an owner occupant property, you can get two and a half percent money right now, a primary residence money. And it’s going probably lower. And Jay Powell from the Fed has already said, they’re not raising interest rates anytime soon. So your payment will be lower in most areas, right? On a 2,500 or 3000 square foot home, simply because the money is so cheap right now, than your lease would be in an apartment where you don’t get any of the things that you would want. So the money is so cheap right now. Every single real estate investor should absolutely be tying up and getting as much low interest long-term money as you possibly can. It’s the ultimate trade. And here’s a big, big reason why, as you know, and everyone knows they’re printing money like it’s going out of style.
It’s absolutely crazy what’s going on. What is that going to cause? Inflation. Inflation is when the prices go up. 10 years from now, we’re going to have five, $10… They’re already over $5. We’re going to have $10 loaves of bread, right? That’s the analogy people say, you meet an old person and they say, Oh, when I used to go to rock concerts, it’s only $10 for a ticket. Now it’s a hundred. Oh, when I was young, a cheeseburger only cost a nickel and now it’s a dollar. That’s inflation. Well, prices are going to go up. And if a bank is willing to give you long-term fixed low cost money, you’ve got to think prices are going to continue to go up, especially on real estate, right? And your payment is not going to go up.
So the dollars that you are using to pay this bank back are going down in value while the asset that you own is going up in price, right? Basically think 10 years from now, your payment is fixed. You’re using these dollars, 10 years from now the dollars are worth less than they are today. 20 years from now, the dollars are worth less than they are today. And you get to write off some of the interest as well. So if you’re getting a two and a half percent loan right now, factor in writing off the tax deductions and then the inflation, what’s your true net cost of that money? It’s 1% money. Is ridiculous. So people can afford everything that they want, that we’ve discussed, the space and out of the crime and the whole thing, you can actually afford it and afford all the space simply because the money is so cheap right now.

Chris Arnold:
Yeah, absolutely. So it’s interesting. If I look at your five points and I think anyone listening goes, this is completely logical. I don’t have to break this down much further because we’re seeing it and experiencing it ourselves with the social circles that we run in with friends and family, but a couple of underneath threads that I hear what’s driving this is fear, right? A couple of your points are fear-based decision. And we know that fear as well as pain, right? Are two things that really motivate people to make a change or do something different. I know a lot of people right now that have made changes that they might not have because they have fears. Here in Tulum, how many people have wanted to come live in a foreign country like Tulum, but haven’t? And I asked them, why did you decide to do it now?
Because so many people have, it was the thing that got me off the fence. I had these fears of not doing it, but now the fear of what I’m experiencing in the U.S. is different enough to overcome the fear of living in a foreign country. The second layer underneath, I hear what you’re talking about, Dave, is just necessity, right? In order for me to work from home, to take care of an animal and provide a place for my kids to play and so forth and have just a lifestyle from a home standpoint, that’s comfortable, that we can enjoy that’s a necessity, right? So I think that your points are really driven by psychological things like fear and necessity that really do drive decision-making for us as human beings. So definitely a big observation there on your points.

Dave Payerchin:
Excellent man. And the fiscal part of it is just the long-term money. Have you ever seen interest rates as low as they are right now? Probably not. And if we can lock that up for 30 years that long, I think it’s the best long-term play all of us can do.

Chris Arnold:
Absolutely. So if you are tuning in as always, you want to put a face with the name, go check us out on YouTube, take a look at Dave and I just kicking it here, him with his backwards hat. Cool background we were talking about that. So go to Chris Arnold-Real Estate and subscribe over there. So Dave, we didn’t talk about winding this up, but we do have a couple minutes. For those listening, do you have any potential practical structure on how you’re building your rental portfolio? [crosstalk 00:23:56] Hey, I hear what you’re saying, but I’m a little bit newer to the business. Dave, would you mind just breaking down in basic format, how you’re building your rental portfolio in the sense of financing it and so forth? Give us-

Dave Payerchin:
100%. It’s very well thought out stuff. This is all we do, Chris. So really what we do is we raise private capital and we use that private capital to buy off market deals from motivated sellers. Like I assume a lot of your listeners do, and we will fix these properties up. And then we will do a glorified BRRR, which is do a refinance after the home is fixed up, acquired with private money, fixed up with private money. And then we will put permanent financing on our homes, in the form of a bank. And basically, we look for properties where the rent to value ratio continues to make sense.
So what that product looks like here in the Midwest and Ohio is we like properties really valued on the low end, a 100,000. On really the highest end, right about 200 or 220, because in our markets, after you get above the 220, like for instance, a $200,000 ARV house that’s going to rent for, let’s just call it $2,000. Well then a $220,000 house is still renting for 2000, a $250,000 house is maybe 2050. So the rents just stop, keeping up with the value, right about 200 in our market. And then below a 100 ARV, it tends to get a little bit more in the C class. And that’s where we got our start. We still own a lot of homes in the lower end parts of Columbus.
But we’ve been able to re-build our business up. So we don’t really need to be in the lower parts. They’re great for cashflow, but sometimes they’re more management intensive. So we want to be right in that bread and butter, we love homes that have a garage and you know what we love even more, Chris? As when the resident that we bring in, fills the garage with all of their crap. Because that means they’re not going to move out anytime soon, no one wants to move. And we love pricing our rents very affordable. We’re not tying to gouge this person for every last dollar because we’re thinking long-term. We want to lock these people in there for a long, long time.
And we do have residents that have been with us for years and years and years, have no intentions of moving. So for your listeners, if you’re new to this always go for the longevity of a rental rather than try to just make as much money in one month as you possibly can. Because you got to think every time a resident moves out, now you got to turn the property, you got to invest a couple of thousand dollars. Go for the long haul, and even if that means making your rent more affordable rather than trying to get as much as you possibly can.

Chris Arnold:
Absolutely. So if you’re tuning in and you’re like, man, I really love what Dave’s doing here. I want to get some more value. I want to follow. The great thing about Dave is he just loves to come in and add value. I was talking to him about he’s like, dude, I produce just a lot of great content, no strings attached for free. So that just lets us know, man, he’s just got the heart of a teacher. So for those listening that go, man, I like this guy. I want to learn more about the strategy. I think he’s onto a great play for me for 2021. Where do they follow you? Where do they go to?

Dave Payerchin:
Thank you. Yeah. So our brand is the CREAM, and the CREAM stands for cashflow, real estate and money. And if you are tuning in on the YouTube channel, you can see my background is the CREAM and if somebody wants to follow me, you can find myself and my business partner, RJ Pepino online, and our website is risewiththecream.com. Because Chris, finish this phrase, the cream always goes where?

Chris Arnold:
Rises to the top.

Dave Payerchin:
That’s right buddy. That’s what we’re doing, risewiththecream.com is our site.

Chris Arnold:
That’s good, I like it. It’s creative and all of the acronyms that you got in there as well. So nice of you tuning in as always. Man, you just teed this up or something and I’m super passion about Dave and that’s radio. Radio is the number one way to advertise to people in rural areas. I will tell you that the students in REI Radio will tell you, Hey, I’m so used to doing deals in my local city. When I launched radio, it covers such a wide area that all of a sudden I’m getting calls in areas that are outside, what I’m used to working. And Dave’s coming in here and flipping it and saying, that’s an incredible thing. If you’re looking at the opportunity, that’s there, you’re looking at these as ability to build a rental portfolio.
We’re always talking about, okay, here’s the strategy. Well, how do I create traffic to fulfill that strategy? And Dave, I’m telling you, radio is a fantastic way to do it because that’s the thing that’s getting into the ears and in front of people that are outside of just the city itself. So as always, if you’re tuning in, go to wholesalinginc.com/reiradio, again, wholesalinginc.com/reiradio, book a call, see if your market is open. And we definitely have students that are utilizing radio to fix some [inaudible 00:28:52], to wholesale hotel, build rental portfolios. And on top of that, do creative financing.
We all by have different exit strategies day, but reality is we all need the same beat opportunity and that’s motivated sellers for whatever we want to do. So Dave, man, thanks for coming in today. I always like a fresh topic, fresh perspective, something that’s going to get us thinking a little bit differently. And you brought that today. You’re exposing an opportunity and some of the upsides of what we’ve just gone through. So thanks so much for coming on.

Dave Payerchin:
Thanks for having me.

Chris Arnold:
Awesome. And to the rest of you guys, thank you so much as always for tuning in until next time, we will catch up soon when we add more value. Talk to you later.

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