Posted on: October 19, 2020

If you need a masterclass on sub-to and creative financing, you’ll be in for a treat! In this episode, we have someone who knows the topic inside and out and he generously shared all you need to know!

Pace Morby is referred to as the subject-to legend and with good reason. After working as a general contractor for a decade, Pace transitioned into wholesaling properties, seller finance, assisted living, and property flipping.

To date, he generates over $150k in wholesale fees monthly, owns 7 assisted living facilities, and 15 subject-to properties! Taking into consideration all that he has accomplished so far, it’s easy to see Pace has truly mastered the art of subject-tos and wholesaling.

In this episode, you’ll learn all the basics of sub-to. However, that’s not all. You’ll also learn about the likely objections and how you can effectively address them, how to get sellers to take terms, and how you can build your portfolio in less than 2 years.

You’ll have plenty of powerful gold nuggets and insights to take note of so you better have a pen and paper handy!

Key Takeaways

  • Why building rapport through building credibility is considered idea
  • How long it usually takes to find a deal
  • How to get a seller to take terms
  • What “terms” means
  • His F-150 story
  • Possible objections and how to address them
  • Where people can find a good sub-to attorney
  • The magic line that can make the heart of sellers melt
  • How to build your portfolio in less than 2 years
  • What creative financing can do
  • Three reasons sellers won’t sell
  • How people can find him online

RESOURCES:

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Episode Transcription

Lauren Hardy:
For those who don’t know me, I’m Lauren Hardy. I’m with Wholesaling Inc. I coach all things virtual wholesaling, virtual investing, and we have Pace Morby. He is a subject-to legend, creative finance expert, super excited to have you.

Pace Morby:
Well, you know what’s funny is I started out in wholesaling years ago and I was a HomeVestor franchise. Do you know any HomeVestor franchises? Like the We Buy Ugly Houses people?

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah. I know all about it.

Pace Morby:
Okay. Looking back on it, it’s so funny because I felt like I had all the answers because I was part of a franchise. And they teach you the opposite of virtual wholesaling. It’s like, “Go on every appointment. You are the center of your business.” And so there’s just this massive bottleneck where you can only do so many deals. And now I look back on that business model, when I was making fun of people that were doing virtual, not making fun of, I was just in the back of my mind I’m like, “Well, you’re not buying deals as deep as I am. So I’m better than you,” and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I’m full virtual and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, what did I do? Waste two years of my freaking life.”

Lauren Hardy:
I know. I literally cringe when educators are like, “Get belly to belly, neck to neck with the seller.” I’m like, “What are you doing with the seller? Why are you in the sellers house? That is so creepy. I’m a female, that is dangerous for me.” I used to put my life on the line in this job when I used to go on seller appointments.

Pace Morby:
I agree 100%. And look, there are sellers that are like, “Look, I have no internet.” I had this one seller three years ago. His name’s Charles, we bought his house in Phoenix, but he lived in Northern Colorado in the middle of nowhere on this massive 200-acre ranch. And he says, “I’ve been trying to sell my house for two years. Nobody’s man enough to come meet me belly to belly.” We were like, “Challenge accepted.”

Lauren Hardy:
Whoa.

Pace Morby:
So I jumped in my Prius, I drove all night, went up there, signed the contract, came back, we closed the deal a week later. Other than those weird obscure stories … And then that was the other thing too, is people were like, “Well, why didn’t you just send a mobile notary? Or why didn’t you send somebody to go get the contract signed?” And I’m like, “I’m telling you, this guy tried to sell his house for two years. He was a good old boy.” And he said, “I want to shake hands and look the man in the eye who’s going to buy this house.” That is the only time I’ve ever ran into a need for a meeting with a seller.

Lauren Hardy:
Right. There’s an exception to every rule, with anything, and that’s what I always say. There’s always an exception to the rule of that one guy that just insisted on meeting the man that’s going to buy the home. But for the most part, the amount of time that you spend driving, getting in your car, driving to the seller meeting, sitting there, piddling around with the seller in their house, petting your cat, building rapport, all that stuff. Driving back home, you’re tired, you’re cranky because you just sat in traffic all day. By the time you’ve done that you’ve made one offer that day. You’ve made one offer.

Pace Morby:
100%.

Lauren Hardy:
Where you could have made 10 offers on the phone to 10 other motivated sellers and probably locked up three contracts that day.

Pace Morby:
Well, here’s the thing, is I asked myself, “Why do people still do it that way?” And this is kind of a strong statement. So I apologize for anybody that is very offended easily, but I call it mental masturbation. Basically what it is is you are convincing yourself that you are staying busy by being in your car and driving to an appointment. And, “I’m busy, I’m busy, I’m busy, I’m busy,” and it’s just a total mental game you’re playing with yourself and you’re convincing yourself you’re working hard. My point is, there’s so many people in this business that stay busy to convince themselves that they’re doing something. When the reality is what you were just talking about, which is money producing activities is what you need to be doing all day long, making more offers, talking to more sellers. Driving 45 … Especially where you’re at, I know you don’t invest in Southern California.

Lauren Hardy:
Right. You do.

Pace Morby:
But if you did invest in Southern California, the average drive time is probably an hour.

Lauren Hardy:
Easily. When I was flipping homes here, easily. That’s why I was virtual before virtual was even a word, because I was like, “No, I’m sorry. I’m not getting on the 405 at 3:00.” I wouldn’t do it. I was like, “Instead, I’m going to tell you what I’m going to offer now over the phone and then you tell me that you’re going to accept it. And then I’m going to build enough rapport where you will feel bad if you don’t accept it when we meet in person.”

Pace Morby:
Yeah. I think also people believe that sellers want you to build rapport with them, and what I’m telling people, just through experience … And here’s the thing, is when you’re educating on a topic, you become the master of that topic because you talk about it so frequently. So I can’t pretend to be a master of virtual wholesaling at all, but I can tell you, you’ll completely attest to this, people think that sellers want you to build rapport with them. Sellers don’t want you to build rapport with them. They want to do business with somebody who’s credible. And so what I do is I tell my students about sub-to, and I also tell my acquisition team, I go, “Guys, build rapport through building credibility. Don’t build rapport by talking about cats and their favorite color and what’s their favorite flavor of pie.” It’s a waste of time.
And sellers know it’s a waste of time that they’re being polite to you and listening to you trying to scramble for things to talk about to build rapport. Just build rapport through building credibility, get to the root of the problem and jump on it. You get way more done. Your life is way easier. So anyway, you obviously get it. You’re the master of all this stuff. And it was a treat to get to know you when you came to Phoenix a little while ago, and I’m sitting there looking at your business, you’re in Southern California, living a wonderful life, and you’re investing in, it’s Oklahoma City, right?

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah. Oklahoma City and Tulsa. They’re right next to each other.

Pace Morby:
What made you decide on those markets?

Lauren Hardy:
Well, my first virtual market was Nashville, Tennessee, and I was in Nashville for a few years. I started with building houses in Nashville. So that was actually my first virtual thing, was I was just ground up construction, because I started as a house flipper. I was a house flipper to start here in California and then the deals were drying up. So I needed just something to work on because I needed to diversify. I basically didn’t want all my eggs in one basket being like my California territory. So I bought some lots in Nashville and started building homes there. From there it spun into, “Well, why don’t I start wholesaling these lots to other developers?” Which then turned into, “Actually there’s a lot of hedge fund activity. Why don’t I try wholesaling-”

Pace Morby:
Did you know it was wholesaling lots at the time or no?

Lauren Hardy:
Oh yeah, no, I knew what wholesaling was, because I’d done some wholesaling as it was. I’d done a little bit in California. I would wholesale the ones that I didn’t really want to do. I would wholesale those houses that I didn’t want to flip myself, like the ones that seemed a little risky, but what happened was then … Yeah, so it started with lots and then it was like, “Well, actually there’s a lot of hedge fund activity. Why don’t I go after homes, just regular houses, and sell to the hedge funds and the other landlord type buyers? Let’s look for landlords.”
But then what happened was Nashville was going through this crazy development boom and it became very saturated with just local investors. Local investors were like, it was cut throat, a seller could just walk out of their door and there was a construction site on every street. So they could just take my offer and then go and bid it against all the builders in the neighborhood. So I was getting constantly out of bid. I came up with a rule, and my course is all about the struggles that I had, and then I came up with rules, and then now it’s like, “Okay. So don’t make the mistakes I made.”
So one of the mistakes was I picked this booming market that was in this interesting kind of like … It was the number one real estate market at the time. I don’t recommend going virtual in a development type market like that. Another market would be similar would be like in Austin, Texas. It might be kind of difficult. And the house prices also started getting higher, and higher, and higher. So I wanted something that was more a lower price point home, more of the landlord market. I realized that the deals I really wanted to be doing were the landlord deals. Those are the easiest ones to do virtually because they’re based off of rent versus ARV minus repairs. So I didn’t have to think about as much about the construction of the home.
So it really started off … The first virtual was kind of picking a cool place that sounded cool, like Nashville, right? And like, “Oh, I’ve built homes and this is fun. Let’s do this.” No thought. After my experience with Nashville, I started putting some thought into it and I was looking for the 1% rule type rent to price ratio markets like where the rent is 1% of the purchase price around there. I got a spreadsheet out. I started looking for … At the time, I wanted a population of a million because I didn’t want to run out of marketing lists. I wanted my marketing lists to be big. I didn’t want to keep running out and have listings [inaudible 00:10:03] every month.
So I just chose, I wanted a bigger Metro, but I wanted the price point to be lower. And I got a spreadsheet out, picked some markets that looked interesting, then started deep diving. I happened to know someone in Oklahoma City at the time. So that was a little bit of a connection like, “Oh, well, when we go there, I know so-and-so, they could help me out.” So that’s sort of how it came about. I mean, in my coaching program, I now have other parameters that I list and things. I’ve changed my opinion on some stuff, but that’s sort of how I ended up there, long explanation.

Pace Morby:
No. Actually, one of the things I love about that is the whole thought process of no thought process when you first chose Nashville is honestly one of the biggest indicators of a successful person. You just go, “I’m going to go for it.” And it might not be the perfect market and it might not be the perfect whatever, but you took action and you jumped with both feet in. You made some mistakes, you learned some lessons, and then you ultimately found out your niche, which is ultimately what you’re doing right now in Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

Lauren Hardy:
Right. Yeah. I put no thought into it, and that’s kind of how I do most things. I just have one speed, full speed. And so I just, “I’m going to do this,” and I just do it or whatever, but my problem is I don’t quit fast enough. So I will drag something on, and on, and on, and not quit. I’m very stubborn about quitting.

Pace Morby:
Well, that’s legitimately a really challenging thing for a lot of real estate investors, not just the market, but think about one of your students, they get a lead that comes through. And how do they know when to quit on that lead and when to push harder, right? Those are the things that are really challenging that only a couple of years in the business you could really determine those filters. And it’s really a topic I think a lot of new investors are challenged with, of like, “When do I stop? When do I pivot? When do I do all that kind of stuff?” And I imagine you teach a lot of that stuff based on your experiences from your Nashville days and now obviously in Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

Lauren Hardy:
Absolutely. Actually, it’s so funny. Some of my coaching calls, I do a topic in the front of them. And one of my topics was when do you quit? And I realized that there was no rules. And I never had an educator actually put clear rules of when you’re allowed to quit on things. And so I pick the top three things that I noticed people sort of either quit too fast or they’re not really sure when should I quit on this? And I kind of can’t off the top of my head remember, like one was when you quit a market. So I noticed that students try a market out when they go virtual, they try a market out for maybe two months and they don’t close a deal yet. They get frustrated, they think, “This market must not be a good virtual market. I’m going to quit and go to another virtual market.”
Then they try that market for two months and then they quit and they go to another one, and then they just say, “Virtual doesn’t work.” And I say, “Well, no, it takes six months to figure out a market.” It really does take six months. You can’t just quit after 60 days. On average from when a seller lead comes in to when we get paid on that deal, our average is 97 days. So they are quitting before, my average of a person who’s done this for eight years, they’re quitting already. They’ve already quit. You know? So-

Pace Morby:
That’s a really, really good topic to talk about. So we recently jumped into Orlando, and I shouldn’t say jumped into, we’re like four or five months into it, but now we’re collecting really, really good data based on our ad spend. So my bookkeeper comes back and she’s telling me, “Hey, if you guys spend a dollar, you get $10 back. So if you’re spending a dollar in Orlando in marketing, your revenue is 10 X.” And I’m like, “Okay. We’re never quitting this market. Let’s double down on our marketing.” Right?

Lauren Hardy:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Pace Morby:
So it took us, honestly, four months to even figure out that KPI. You can’t just spend $1,000 in your first month and have any real good data. It does take minimum four, I would say six months is you’re right. That’s 100% right.

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah. That’s crazy. I know you’re interested in all things virtual, but I want to talk all things subject-to. So I have always wondered, I don’t have a lot of creative finance experience. I’ll be honest. I have made creative finance offers to sellers and I can’t seem to convince a seller to take terms. I don’t know what to say. I don’t know how you say it to make it appealing to them. They have these obvious kind of rebuttals or objections. I don’t know how to overcome the objections, and part of why I can do wholesaling, like what I do virtually, is because I’m really good at overcoming objections over the phone and I can do it well enough that I can do it over the phone and they don’t need to be belly to belly with me. And that’s how I can do it. But with sub-to, I can’t even do that in person.
So I’m curious, how do we do sub-to virtually, because I would love to do that? How do you convince a seller to take terms? If there was one thing I want to focus on, because I love getting micro on topics that whoever I’m speaking with is an expert on, and this particularly interests me, is how the heck do you get a seller to say, “Sure, I’ll let you take my mortgage on. Yeah.”

Pace Morby:
I’m going to answer that question with a question and then I’ll jump into answering it long-Winded. So, this is what’s so funny. So most of the time wholesalers are the ones that ask me the question of like, “Wait, how are you doing this?” And I go, “You’re a wholesaler. You’re convincing the seller to sell their property at sometimes 50 and 60 cents on the dollar. So let me ask you a question. How in the hell are you convincing a seller to sell at 50 cents, 60 cents on the dollar?” Because as a creative finance investor, I’m typically … Sometimes I’m buying sub-to 50, 60 cents on the dollar, but I’m coming up sometimes 90 and 95 cents on the dollar in creative finance situations. So number one, I’m dominating the price point. I’m giving the seller way more money than you ever have the ability to do as just a single wholesaler. So right out of the gate, I’m coming in and pointing that out.
So one of the things I love doing is I probably average 10 hours a week that I personally call my students sellers. And the reason being is because I feel like it’s somewhat of a blue ocean in the sense of wholesale is so, not virtual wholesale, but wholesale in general has been around for a long time. And so there’s a lot of people with seller calls and stuff on YouTube that you can hear the way the conversation goes. I have never heard somebody on YouTube or otherwise calling sellers with creative finance. So sub-to seller finance novation agreements, we can jump into all three of those. So, I love recording on Zoom. Anytime a seller is like, “I’m having these objections,” with the seller I go, “Great. Let’s set up a call in two days.”
40 of my students will fill in a Google Sheet, they’ll fill in 15 minute calls back to back, to back, to back. And I’ll just hammer those out for four or five hours, and I’ll do that once a week and then I’ll do it a couple of times incrementally throughout the week as well. And that’s all I do, is I get on the phone, I record these via Zoom. So what I’ll do for you and your audience, and maybe some of your students that are like, “Hey, I love Lauren and I love her program, but I do run into people with low equity or I run into people that simply want too much money for their house,” I’ll give you two hours of me recorded. You’ll see my face, you’ll see my mannerisms, you’ll see everything, and how I overcome their objections. And then we can jump, like right now, I’ll jump into the top five objections you get with the seller and what to say. But first and foremost, the way I’m doing it is I’m paying way more than you guys are. Way.

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah. Okay. So you focus heavy on the price.

Pace Morby:
Right. So how many times have you talked to a seller that owes let’s say 150, they owe 150 and you’re like, “Yo, my best cash price is like 130. If I paid 150, I’d lose money. Either on a fix and flip or even a wholesale, I can’t come up to that number.” “Well, sorry, that’s what I owe.” So unfortunately for that seller, dozens and dozens of other wholesalers or real estate investors have tried to buy that house at 130 as well. So when I come along and I say, “If I come up to 150, would you be willing to give me terms?” And then the seller has no idea what that means.

Lauren Hardy:
Right. Not a clue.

Pace Morby:
Right? My students know my F-150 story back and forth. Do you know my F-150 story, Lauren?

Lauren Hardy:
I know the truck story. I know the truck story because I’ve heard it before.

Pace Morby:
Love it.

Lauren Hardy:
There’s a truck story I feel like, and I’ve heard this truck story. Something about selling a truck on terms.

Pace Morby:
Yeah. So when a seller says, “Well, what’s terms?” Because I always throw out an ambiguous word, that’s not too big, I’m not going to pull out creative finance, or subject-to, or seller finance. I’m not going to bring up any of that stuff because that just goes [inaudible 00:18:57]. But if I say terms, it’s a small word that’s not too intrusive, and the seller always says, “Well, what does that mean?” So then I always tell them in a story form. I just say, and hopefully you guys don’t mind if I tell the F-150 story real quick?

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah.

Pace Morby:
I used to be a contractor. So I literally tell my sellers this exact story, and it is a very true story. The story is this. I used to be a contractor and I had this F-150, it’s a Ford truck, that I loved. I used it for work. My company made plenty of money by utilizing that truck. But there came a point where we had 300,000 miles on that truck. It was time to sell it. So I go on Kelley Blue Book, I find out that the truck is only worth $5,000. So what does that mean? If I go on Craigslist and I post it for $5,000, am I selling that for $5,000? No, I’m going to sell it for $4,200 because people are going to work me down. Right?

Lauren Hardy:
Right.

Pace Morby:
So what I did is I was belligerent, just like most of our sellers. And they’re like, “Yeah, I know what Zillow says. And I know what people say the house is worth. I’ll only sell it for this.” They get emotionally attached to a number. So I just said, “Screw it. I’m just going to put on Craigslist for $10,000.” Okay. Well, do you think I got a call at all? No. And by the way, Lauren, I’m telling the story word for word the way I tell this story to sellers. I’m literally telling a seller this exact story. So I go, what I do is I tell the seller, “Well, let me tell you what terms are,” and then I jump into the story, and now here we are in the story.
So after three months, I didn’t get an offer on that $10,000, obviously it’s not what the truck is worth. And my wife comes to me and she’s like, “Sweetheart, I love you but you got to get that truck out of our freaking driveway.” And I’m like, “Sweetheart, it’s worth way more to me in my company than the $5,000 that I could sell it for.” And she’s like, “Then why don’t you take payments on it?” I’m like, “Oh my gosh, that’s so genius.”

Lauren Hardy:
[inaudible 00:20:45].

Pace Morby:
So I go back to Craigslist. Yeah, my wife steps in, she’s the smart one. So I do one thing, I change one thing. The one thing I changed was I go back to the ad and I said, “Ford F-150. Will take payments.” Did I sell that truck for $10,000? No. I sold that truck for $12,500 because I was willing to take payments on it and give somebody else the value of getting into it so that they could take that truck and go produce money for their family. And so I ended up selling it to a gentleman who owned a painting company and he said, “You know what? For me, it’s not about the payment. It’s about the fact that I can take this truck and go make $6,000 or $7,000 a month for my family.” And ultimately I gave them payment options and I collected interest. So over the course of, I think it was like two and a half, three years, I ended up selling that truck for about $15,000 when you add the interest in. So three times what the house is worth.
So Mr. Seller, what terms means is that essentially, if you’re willing to finance the home to me, I’d be willing to make payments to you so that we can work out a price that fits what your goal is. That’s all terms is. And they’re like, “Wow, that’s it?” And I go, “That’s it. You name your price, I name my terms, and we move forward and we enter into a contract.” When I figured this out, so I went to coaching, I paid all sorts of people, I was traveling the country trying to learn creative finance, because like I said, I was a HomeVestor franchise owner. And our cost per lead towards the end of my stint as a HomeVestor, my cost per lead was about $1,400 per call. Not per lead, not per quality lead, not per contract, my cost was $1,400 for a phone call. So I would basically give HomeVestors $20,000 of my money every month.

Lauren Hardy:
Oh my God.

Pace Morby:
I didn’t start with 20,000. I started like five grand, and then I worked my way up. But ultimately towards the end, I was at 20 grand. And for 20 grand, I get like 12, 13 phone calls for the month for $20,000 in advertising. That’s no joke. So when you divide how many phone calls I received into the $20,000 ad spend, my cost of a lead was 1,400 bucks.

Lauren Hardy:
[inaudible 00:22:57].

Pace Morby:
So this is why I was forced to get creative. I had these leads coming in, and these leads were like, “Yeah, I want $200,000 for a house that is worth $200,000.” And I’m like, “I can’t do that.” “Okay. Well, I’ll sell it through a real estate agent.” Finally, I met a few people, I paid for some coaching, I traveled the country and met with a bunch of people doing this, and I spent a lot of time and a lot of energy perfecting this craft. What I started doing is I started buying those houses that people were like, “Well, if we can’t get 200,000, we’re just going to sell it on the open market.” And I would say, “Okay. Well you own the house free and clear. So why don’t you just be the bank for me?” And they’re like, “Yeah, we don’t need the money. We just care more about the price.”
The other thing too is like, if a seller sells their house today for $200,000 and it’s worth $200,000, I can go in and I can get 2% interest. A lot of times I’m getting 0% interest. I just closed today on a deal in Yuma, 0% interest home, forgetting free houses all over the place. And the reason being is because the seller is married to one goal. The seller is married to the goal of getting a purchase price reached. Am I paying over retail? No, I’m not paying over retail, but sometimes I’m paying 80, 90, 95 cents on the dollar, but I’m getting terms where I’m putting sometimes no money down, sometimes very little money down, sometimes a good amount of money down. But what I’m doing is I’m turning around and finding a family to move into the property that gives me the money down so I get into the ownership. That’s a little bit tricky. We can get into that a little bit later. But ultimately I got to a point with HomeVestors that I was buying about 15 to 17 rentals a month.

Lauren Hardy:
Wow.

Pace Morby:
A month. So I was buying subject-to and seller finance, all utilizing these leads. And I was spending more money in ad spend. And then I started running into issues with HomeVestors corporate. And they were saying, “We are a fix and flip and wholesale operation.” And why did they care? They care because they make a royalty on my money. And if I’m buying rentals and there’s no monetization right out of the gate and I’m building this massive cashflow, they can’t monetize.

Lauren Hardy:
Wow. Okay.

Pace Morby:
So ultimately after months of doing that, I decided I’m going to sell my franchise. And so I sold my franchise a little over two years ago and I went out on my own and we’ve bought hundreds of homes subject-to, we’ve bought hundreds of homes seller finance, some of the time we’re wholesaling those. So I’d say 50% of the houses I get subject-to and seller finance I’m just simply wholesaling those. So a lot of people say, “Well, I don’t want to get into sub-to because I want to learn wholesale.” And I’m like, “I wholesale more than most wholesalers do, but I wholesale a lot of creative finance stuff.”

Lauren Hardy:
So you wholesale it to another landlord that then will take on those payments and that payment plan and all that?

Pace Morby:
I wholesale it to a wide variety of people. So let’s talk about like pre-COVID, let’s talk about this statistic. This is a really interesting statistic. If 100 people go down to Bank of America, or Chase, or Wells Fargo, and they say, “Hey, I want to get a mortgage for my home. I want to go buy this home.” 100 walk into a bank and 100 people walk out, how many of those people have obtained a mortgage, like gotten approval for a mortgage?

Lauren Hardy:
Right. I see [inaudible 00:26:16].

Pace Morby:
Right. So pre-COVID, it was 60% of people would get approved for a mortgage. Now during COVID, all these lenders have tightened guidelines and now it’s more like 45% to 47% of people right now are getting approved. So, more people get declined for a mortgage than get approved. So think about that. In my market, 9,000 homes are purchased traditionally every single month. So what do you think the demand is for non-traditional buyers who are like, “Yo, I’ve got cash. I’ve got 20,000, 30,000 in cash, but I got declined because I only have one year job history,” or, “I got declined because [inaudible 00:26:56]-”

Lauren Hardy:
Self-employed.

Pace Morby:
Oh my gosh, self-employed, so that’s why me, all my partners, everybody I know, we all own our houses subject-to.

Lauren Hardy:
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, you definitely explained just in this call for me how to have that conversation with a seller in a way that I feel like I can regurgitate that now better. Because I’ve taken training in seller financing years ago and I could never really articulate it to a seller in a way that the seller understands it. Now one thing I will say is it is harder probably in the higher price markets.

Pace Morby:
No.

Lauren Hardy:
Do you think like-

Pace Morby:
I’ve got a deal right now in Vallejo, California. I have a buyer bringing $150,000 as a down payment on the house, and my down payment to the seller is 90 grand. We’re collecting $60,000 as a fee in a high price market. The home is like a $950,000 house. So here’s the thing. The high price market only makes it easier because think about it, who is that? It’s doctors, lawyers, it’s business owners, people like you and me who are making really good money but can’t go out and get approved. My goal in life is to make, and I’m not making this now, but my goal in life is to make $20 million a year and have the IRS think I’m making zero, right? That’s the ultimate goal. So if you’re going to do that and you’re going to try and write everything off, and you’re going to try and keep your money to yourself as much as humanly possible, you’re not going to get approved for a mortgage.
So you’ve got doctors, lawyer, all these people that are trying to be really smart with their taxes that are writing everything off, but they’ve got tons of cash. So in the highest price point markets, typically my buyers, the people I dispo to, those people are coming in with significant deposits.

Lauren Hardy:
No, I agree with you there. I’m talking about how do you convince a California seller who’s got this house that they have a mortgage of $750,000 and the house is maybe worth 850. So you’re like, “Listen, I’ll give you 850, but I need to take over your $750,000 mortgage,” and they’re looking at me going, “Well, listen, I want to buy another home someday. So now my name’s going to be tied to this mortgage still?” What is that scenario?

Pace Morby:
Yes. I love it. So think about it, when you go to get another mortgage, wouldn’t you much rather have an existing performing mortgage on your credit right now when you go get another one rather than have none?

Lauren Hardy:
But doesn’t that make it difficult for them to get another home?

Pace Morby:
No. Absolutely not. Let me tell you a story about my own personal house. So, I get a referral, because everybody in Phoenix knows me as the creative finance guy, right? So I get this real estate agent that calls me and she’s like, it’s like five months deep into our listing, and she’s like, “Hey, I took on a listing. I feel like I over promised a little bit. And I know you’re the creative guy. I’ve seen the emails. I’ve seen you on Instagram. What can you do to help me?” And I said, “Look, here’s the unfortunate thing. If I buy the property from you, I got to pay you a 3% commission on a house that you can’t even sell. I’m not really interested in working with you unless you’re willing to work on my fee, and I’ll give you a flat fee, like a finder’s fee of 2,500 bucks, but I’m not going to pay you …” Actually, it was a $400,000 house. “I’m not going to pay you $12,000 on a house you’re about to lose the listing on because your listing agreement ends in 30 days.”
She was a little bit upset, so we get off the phone and two weeks later she calls me. She goes, “Okay. I’m ready to work with you.” I go, “Great. Now what I want you to do is I’ll pay you $2,500, but I want direct access to your seller. I don’t want to have anything to do with you.” She’s like, “That’s impossible.” I go, “Great. I’ll just call your seller after your listing agreement ends and I’ll just work with them directly. But I am not working with a real estate agent as my mouthpiece. Unfortunately for you guys is you guys screw up every possible deal. It’s almost like day one in real estate school, you guys learn how to blow up every single deal. So I’m not interested in working through you, but I’m definitely interested in working for you and I can get this deal done. So let me just talk to your seller.”
So she relents and she says, “Okay. Great. As long as you pay me $2,500, I will give you access to the seller.” And I go, “Great, and I don’t want you involved at all. I don’t want you trying to coordinate, I don’t want you trying to do anything. You will destroy my deal.” “Okay, great.” And I go, “Well, here’s what I’ll do, I’ll tell you how I did it and what I did after I close escrow so that you don’t start saying stuff like, ‘Well, I don’t know what that means.'”
So she removed herself, completely removed herself. I called Dave, the seller, and this is where I’m going to answer your question about the DTI or debt to income ratio, so somebody’s ability to go get another mortgage when they already have an existing mortgage. So I get on the phone with Dave, I explain to him subject-to, and I said, “Hey man, I got your agent out of the way and here’s why,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. “This is what I do for a living. I’m known as this guy.” And he goes, “I love it. But that causes a major problem for me is that I can’t go buy another house if I don’t sell this one.” Then I go, “Dave, that’s so far from true. It’s painful to hear that.” And he goes, “No, I know this. Pace, I’m currently in the process of buying a brand new home, seven months ago,” I think it was like six, seven months ago before I talked to him, he had been driving home, he’s a brand new home community, he drives in there and they sucker him into putting a $20,000 non-refundable deposit on this brand new piece of dirt.
So he goes home and he tells his wife, “Baby, we got to sell our house. I got a brand new house. We’re going to start building,” blah, blah, blah. His wife’s like, “Yes, this is amazing. Let me call my cousin,” who ended up being the real estate agent. So, the lender for the brand new home approved him with the contingency that he sold his existing home. Not rented out, not do anything with it. The lender flat out told him, “I can approve you, but you need to remove the other home from your credit because your DTI, or your debt to income ratio, is off.”
So, here we are five and a half months later, they’re biting their fingernails because now the house is almost done being built. The lender’s telling them, “Hey, if that house is not sold and off your hands in 30 days, you lose your $20,000 deposit and you lose the rights to this house.” So the real estate agent, I remove her. I get on the phone with Dave, Dave and I work out a deal. And I said, “Here’s what I’ll do, Dave, I’ll give you a non-refundable deposit of $5,000. And if I can’t get you approved for your other mortgage, I will let you have that $5,000 and we’ll sabotage and you can keep my five grand.” He’s like, “You’re that confident?” I go, “Bro, I’ve been doing it for years. I’m that confident.”
So, I simply get on the phone, I work out a deal where I simply take over his mortgage, didn’t give Dave any money. I took over his house and my wife at the time was my transaction coordinator. So she ran over, signed the documents with Dave, because his wife … They were having an issue with their internet, so my wife runs over. She falls in love with the house. And my wife’s like, “I want to buy this house for ourselves.” So that’s why I ended up buying it for ourselves. We ended up moving into it, but this is what I did.
We opened escrow. During escrow, I called the lender and I said, “Hey, my name is Pace. I buy houses subject-to constantly, and I’m currently buying Dave’s house subject-to, which means I’m going to be taking over the payments, but we’re going to keep the mortgage in his name. Now, I utilize a third party servicing company to handle those payments so that you guys can track that those payments are not being paid for by Dave, they’re not coming out of his income.” And she goes, “Oh yeah, that’s not a problem. If that’s the case, or the first 12 months that somebody else is making the payments, we take 75% of the payment off of his DTI. And then after a 12-month stint or documented payments, we will take 100% of that off of his DTI.” So that is the process. The new lender, nationwide, not that lender, not my lenders, not people I know, every single lender will remove 75% of the payment immediately by showing that-

Lauren Hardy:
[inaudible 00:34:49] DTI.

Pace Morby:
… those payments are not responsible by Dave.

Lauren Hardy:
This is common with lenders? That they will take off 75%? I’ve never heard of this before. That’s a thing that really is a thing?

Pace Morby:
Yeah. Think about it. Think about people that have a portfolio where they go out and use their own personal name to go out and get loans on rental properties. They’re not doing that because they have massive amounts of income. They’re doing it because they’re documenting with their lender that their renter is making the payment, not them. It’s highly common. Every single buy and hold investor that is buying and utilizing their name for their first 15 purchases, because there is a cap. You can’t get conventional loans unlimited. It does cap you. But for the first 15, these guys, all they’re doing is going to the bank and saying, “Hey, here’s proof that I have … This is a seasoned rental property.”

Lauren Hardy:
Seasoned tenant, right.

Pace Morby:
And I’m getting seasoning in it and they remove the payment from the DTI.

Lauren Hardy:
Right. So that’s what I always thought, is like it has to be a seasoned tenant. And I had a lender tell me, the tenant, and it was like, “How do we season for two years?” And I was like, “Two years? So then …” Yeah.

Pace Morby:
Here’s the technicality behind it. It’s two months. So all I did is I made two months upfront for Dave’s payments. I set it up with Weststar Servicing, which is who my servicing company is. I make two payments ahead of time. I was going to make those payments anyway. I made two payments ahead of time. We have Weststar sent the information over to his underwriter for his loan company or his mortgage company, and they get the deal done. This is something that is done daily, weekly, monthly with my students. They run into sellers the same exact situation. And then I’ve taken Dave’s testimonial where he was like, “Look, I thought this guy, Pace, was full of crap. Then he puts his money where his mouth is. Then he walks me through the process. Then he calls my lender on my behalf. He gets the deal done. This guy’s the truth. This guy is amazing,” dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
So when I have students that are like, “Hey, my seller doesn’t believe this is that easy.” I go, “Have them call Dave.” And my seller, Dave, has gotten on the phone with a lot of my student sellers saying, “No, this is real. I’m living in my brand new built home. I couldn’t have qualified without what Pace did. This was the best thing that ever happened to us.” And the guy, actually one night, he sends me a text late at night, like maybe 1:00 in the morning actually, and he’s like, “We’re just laying in bed in our brand new house and I can’t thank you guys enough …” And I go, “Isn’t it amazing what creative financing can do?” And he replies back, was simply, “Sub-to,” with the peace sign, and I go, “That’s my new logo.”

Lauren Hardy:
Oh, that’s cool. That is really cool. And I have to say, because again, I’ve taken courses in sub-to, I’ve taken all sorts of courses. Over eight years, I feel like I’ve done it all as far as education goes. And I have a niche, and you have your niche, I have got my niche, and I can tell you did take your time to deep dive into the niche of sub-to and how to explain it to a seller so the seller … You’ve perfected your script because you took that time of intense, intense research perfecting and honing your craft. I have had other educators explain this entire process that you explained, but they leave out huge holes.

Pace Morby:
Can I tell you the honest reason behind that?

Lauren Hardy:
Right? Can I just say what the hole was here? Is what I was asking you. I was like, “Well, what about the DTI?”

Pace Morby:
[inaudible 00:38:16].

Lauren Hardy:
The educator leaves that out.

Pace Morby:
Right. You know why? Because they’re not practitioners of what they teach. Now, here’s the thing. I paid one guy here in Phoenix, one guy, $50,000. And when I was asking those questions to him years ago, it was like, he’s skirting the questions, he’s pushing it under the rug, I couldn’t get the answer. So I ended up hiring real estate attorneys that were proficient in subject-to all over the country. We have five of them that I employ. And these guys were like, “Oh yeah, this is how it’s done. This is how it’s done. This is how some of my other clients do it.” And I had to piece it together by paying attorneys to tell me how it’s actually done behind the scenes.

Lauren Hardy:
I agree with you. I know that there’s a lot of educators that are not practitioners, and then same with kind of what I teach and everything.

Pace Morby:
So many.

Lauren Hardy:
And I think that that’s just what I got my hands on, and that’s why I’m asking you, I don’t mean to sound skeptical, but you can see that I’ve done courses. And I’m like, “Well, what about that?” Because I tried it, and then the seller says this, and then I don’t know what to say. And then I go back to the course and the course it’s empty, big hole. And you’re right. And you can tell you’re the real deal. You do this, so you have overcame those objections.

Pace Morby:
And there’s so many more objections. I’d love to get into them too. This is what I tell sellers. This is also, like I went, going back to our beginning of our conversation was, build rapport by building credibility. So what I do with my sellers is I say, when I go through my pitch on sub-to, or seller finance, or innovation agreements, I’ll say, “Can I tell you the questions you’re not asking? Can I tell you the other questions that other sellers have asked me that you really need to understand?” And they’re like, “Of course. Of course, yes.” And I go, “Okay. So Timmy, the seller, let me ask you a question. What happens if I buy your property subject-to? What happens if I buy this house subject-to and then I get abducted by aliens? I can’t make the payment because, damn, I’m not even on this planet anymore. What happens?”

Lauren Hardy:
I don’t know. What happens?

Pace Morby:
What happens, right? So what I do and what I write in all of my agreements is I write into all my agreements a performance deed that requires me to perform in what I promised. If I don’t perform, my performance deed can be executed by a servicing company, which means the servicing company handles the transaction, which means I don’t make the payments to the mortgage company. I make my payment to a servicing company that I set up, the servicing company then makes the payment to the mortgage company. And then if I ever default, if I ever fall behind 30 days, let’s say I’m behind 30 days, the seller simply calls the servicing company and says, “I want my house back,” and it gets deeded back to the seller within a five minute phone call.

Lauren Hardy:
That right there should overcome a lot of objections because they don’t have to go [inaudible 00:41:03] process.

Pace Morby:
100%.

Lauren Hardy:
Because that was always the thing sellers would say, is, “I don’t want to have to go and foreclose on you. That’s a big, long process.” So yeah, I didn’t know that’s a thing. I didn’t know that was a thing you can do that you can [inaudible 00:41:17] make that decision to do it.

Pace Morby:
There’s not a lot of people … Nobody taught me how to do that. That came from one of my attorneys, is like, “Oh yeah, well you can draft a document to overcome basically any objection.” And so we drafted a document, we named it a performance deed. And then you also, there are certain states that performance deeds are not legal. And so what you can do is you can pre-sign a deed in lieu of foreclosure. So you know what a deed in lieu of foreclosure is. So I can pre-sign a deed in lieu of foreclosure that states, “Instead of you foreclosing on me, I’m already signing my rights to this property away if I don’t perform.” So essentially I’m still drafting a performance deed, but it’s called a deed in lieu of foreclosure. Like Florida is a state that you can’t do a performance deed, but you can pre-sign a deed in lieu of foreclosure. Does that make sense?

Lauren Hardy:
Okay. Yeah, no, that does. Question, where can you find an attorney that is skilled in sub-to for anybody who’s listening and say they need an attorney in their state?

Pace Morby:
So my main attorney, his name is Sean St. Clair, and he’s in Arizona, but he’s also licensed in Atlanta. So he’s a closing attorney in Atlanta. And then I have a handful of other attorneys that are document drafters, a couple of them in Texas. And then I also have a specialized attorney in Texas that specializes in lease options because people think that lease options are not available or not allowed in Texas, which is incorrect. So I have those five attorneys. With the attorney stuff, I’ve realized, and I wish I realized this in my 20s, attorneys are just regular ass people too. So I was so afraid of attorneys, but now these attorneys become my friends. And so now when I need something, I call them up and I go, “Hey, I need a new document. I need a new this, or I need a new that.”

Lauren Hardy:
I feel like this was gold. You gave off some serious gold. So thank you.

Pace Morby:
Dude, are you kidding me? What I can say is if you guys are in Lauren’s program, you’re going to take what she’s teaching you and you can probably double your conversion rate with your existing lead flow by picking out the sellers that want too much money or simply have no equity in their property.

Lauren Hardy:
Right. Now I have a question. Do you actually ever look for that type of seller specifically?

Pace Morby:
Yeah.

Lauren Hardy:
So when you’re pulling a marketing list, instead of pulling like an owner occupant list that has a lot of equity, instead do you ever do an owner occupant list that does not have any equity and-

Pace Morby:
Yeah.

Lauren Hardy:
… market to those people? Do you specifically market to these types of people where this would work or no?

Pace Morby:
Honestly, no. Here’s the thing is like, I’m a wholesaler at heart in the sense that we love wholesale, right? I wholesale sub-to. I wholesale regular cash transactions. But ultimately I don’t market for wholesale and I don’t market for sub-to or creative finance, and I don’t market for fix and flip. I simply market to motivated sellers, and whatever that seller needs, I put them in the bucket that I can solve their problems. So now, if somebody says, “Look, I only want to buy sub-tos and creative finance,” there are very specific lists you can go after that sub-to is just involved in.
So number one, foreclosure. Foreclosure is the number one way. If you want to get a rental portfolio and within six months never have to work another day in your life, that’s literally the easiest way to do, is foreclosures. Then number two, expired listing. So people who already have existing pain, why, why, why, why did they fail their listing? Either A, they don’t have equity, which is ding, ding, ding, or B, they have so much equity but they’re like, “I’m hell bent on getting a specific number.” So here’s the deal I closed the other day. Here I am talking about sub-to. Lauren, I buy a lot of seller finance deals at 0% finance too. It’s no joke. It’s one of my biggest acquisition strategies. So I get sellers that are like, “I’m a tired landlord. I’m done with this property and I want 150.” “Great. I’ll pay you 160 if you give me 0% financing.”

Lauren Hardy:
And they’re used to making payments or getting payments, being a landlord.

Pace Morby:
Right. I tell them, “I’m upgrading you from being a landlord to being a lender. You are now the bank.” And that is the magic line that gets them … Their hearts melt and they’re just like, “Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? I would love to be the lender. I’m sick of being the landlord.” So we take over the property. Last one I closed 0% seller finance. We contracted one a couple of weeks ago, but the last one I closed is about a month ago, and it was a seller who was getting offers from wholesalers at like 80,000, 90,000. She wanted 120, and I said, “I’ll give you 120 if you’re willing to give me 0% financing.” And she says, “No, why the hell would I give you 0% financing? I’ll give you 8% financing with a $20,000 deposit.” And I go, “How about I pay you 140 with a $2,500 deposit at 0% financing and essentially just build in all your equity, or build in all your interest upfront?”
And she’s like, “Oh my gosh, I like that.” And I go, “Why wouldn’t you? I mean, at the end of the day, what happens if I sell the property in two or three years and you were the lender getting an 8% return for two or three years, but then I sell the property and you don’t get a return anymore?”

Lauren Hardy:
That’s true.

Pace Morby:
“If I pre-build all your interest into the deal and then you give me 0% finance, if I go sell the property in two or three years, you’ve already made all your money.” And she’s like, “Oh my gosh, I love this.” I go, “Great.” So here’s the reality. The reality is I saved myself probably a good $150,000 on interest because I didn’t give her 8% worth of interest built into the price. I gave her two years of interest into the price and she’s going to carry that term for me for 20 years until it’s paid off.
Think about it. We go buy a house. If I go down and I buy a house for my family for $300,000 at 3% interest, over the course of 30 years, I’m probably paying $750,000 for that house. So what I did is I paid this lady 20 grand over retail, but I bought it for 0% finance. And now when I receive my payment of 1,200 from my renter, and then I turn around and give her a payment of 500, I cashflow 700, but my mortgage to her pays down $500 every single freaking month. There’s no interest. So these are the things that I’m just like, “Wow. If everybody knew this, you could build your portfolio in less than two years and get to a point where literally you could turn your entire business off.”
I’m not at that point in the sense that like, yes, I cashflow and I could support the living and all that kind of stuff. But it’s not motivating for me enough. I want to get to a point where I’m like $400,000 a month in cashflow. I’m nowhere near that. So right now I’m at a point within … A couple of years of doing this full-time, remember, I was a contractor for 10 years. So I had 160 employees. And then I was a wholesaler for the last three years of me being a contractor. I was doing both of them at the same time. And then I left that and I’ve been doing this full-time, not that long, but within that timeframe, the cashflow on these properties is like 400 bucks, 400 bucks, 400 bucks. You don’t need that many of them to completely quit doing whatever else you’re doing.

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah, no, this is … It’s amazing. And I have to say, I’ve heard … I was talking to Tom Krol at one point and he brought up if there’s one person who’s the best at explaining sub-to, it’s Pace Morby. He was just giving examples of coaches that are really good at teaching something that’s complicated. And now I’m like, “And I know what he’s talking about.” You are amazing at explaining it. You’ve came up with, you know every objection. Again, I said it already, but you’ve really honed the craft, and you know everything that sellers say. It’s almost like you’ve written every objection down. And then you’re like, “If they say this, I’ll say that. If they say this, I’ll say that.”
I would probably pay $25,000 for that all in a Word document. If you could just [inaudible 00:49:15] I will write a check on a Word document, because I know all the other nuts and bolts. I get that. I know all the nuts and bolts and a couple of things like the deed in lieu. I’m like, “I wouldn’t have thought about that, but you know what? Cool.” But it’s those rebuttals that is gold, that that’s what the coach like you is for. There’s a lot of money I would pay for those rebuttals.

Pace Morby:
Well, here’s the reality of where this world is headed. The world is headed to a virtual world. This whole COVID thing couldn’t have been better for people that are learning from you. Look, I’m just looking for the silver lining in the worst pandemic of 100 years. But the silver lining is like, if you’re running your business virtually, oh my gosh, you are doing just fine. It’s the people like the HomeVestor franchises, it’s the people who are doing belly to belly that are really struggling right now. Guys, virtual wholesaling and virtual fixing and flip … I wouldn’t say so much virtual fixing and flipping is a target, but virtual wholesaling and virtual building your portfolio, oh my gosh. The laptop lifestyle is 100% and you’re living it. It is so cool. Like you’re in Newport. Your office is in Newport. You got this dope ass location and you’ve got a team investing in Oklahoma City. That is living the dream. I haven’t been home in a month. I’ve been gone for a month. Have you ever been away from your house for a month?

Lauren Hardy:
No, I never have, but I’ve got two kids and I don’t have an Airstream. So no.

Pace Morby:
[inaudible 00:50:43].

Lauren Hardy:
I will see virtual sub-to. I always say, so my tagline is live anywhere, invest where you want. So for the bag of bonds of the world, you can go virtual in my business. My disposition strategy is wholesaling, but you can do virtual house flipping. You can develop houses virtually, you can do Airbnb, and you can also build a rental portfolio utilizing creative financing. So that was actually a strategy that I want to get more into because I’m seeing that it is actually harder to get loans right now due to COVID. I spoke to lenders and I sent you a text, I said, “I total screw the bank. It is very difficult to get rental loans right now. They’re not giving them out.”

Pace Morby:
And they’re asking for 35% down and 40% down. And you’re like, “Really?”

Lauren Hardy:
It’s crazy. Yeah. And it’s because a lot of these are portfolio loans, which are commercial products, Wall Street’s not betting on rentals right now. So what do you do when someone like us that we want to build a rental portfolio, I was like, “Well, we’ll have to screw the bank and go creative.” And so you were the first person, I was like, “I’m going to send a text here to Pace because I want to learn more and get better at this.” Again, for me it’s the seller conversation. The other stuff and nuts and bolts, figure it out as you go. But it’s the conversations that I’m like, “What do you say to the seller? How do you answer that in a way that makes sense to them and you don’t talk them out of the deal by the way you answered it?” You know?

Pace Morby:
Yeah.

Lauren Hardy:
Because it’s easy to do that with creative finances, actually talk the seller out of doing it.

Pace Morby:
Yeah. I call it the machine gun effect versus the sniper. I’d rather be a sniper because … Like if I’m going to go to war and I only have a certain amount of bullets, I only want to use one bullet at a time as necessary. But what creative financing can do is you can go, “Okay. Well, okay, there’s this performance deed, and there’s this this, and there’s this that,” and the seller’s like, “What? What are you talking … What?” This is funny, because I’ll call my student sellers because they’ll go, “Hey, I’m having a hard time with the seller.” And I’m like, “Okay.”
There’s only three reasons why a seller wouldn’t sell to you on creative finance, and here’s those three reasons. Number one, they’re confused. You gave them too much information too fast and you tried to explain it to them like you were a scientist. Number two, they need cash right now. There’s no if, ands, or buts about it, which is then you do a wholesale, right? Then the third reason is because they have literally no pain, but that’s the same reason with wholesale and other stuff. So if my sellers have pain, just a little bit, I can extract that pain super easily and figure that out. And then I can solve it way faster utilizing creative finance.
So one of my students calls me up. He says, “Man, the seller is like … I know they have the pain, I know they want to move forward, but they’re absolutely hands down not interested in creative finance.” And I go, “You confused the seller. You confused the seller, that’s all there is to it.” And I go, “Let me get on the phone with your seller.” I get on the phone with the seller, 45 minutes later I’m like, “I closed the deal in 12 minutes, but we were on the phone for another 30 minutes beyond that,” because now the seller was convinced he wanted to work for me. He’s like, “Oh my gosh, that’s what you guys are doing? This is amazing. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.”
So my student in the first three minutes of talking to the seller brings up the word deed in lieu of foreclosure. I’m like, “I’ve bought hundreds of homes subject-to and seller finance and I’ve never brought the word up unless I need to.” I’m a sniper. I use the bullet when I need to. I’m not a machine gunnist and I’m just blasting my bullets everywhere I possibly can. So yes, the seller conversations are highly, highly beneficial and I love doing them. [inaudible 00:54:33].

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah. I would love to listen. I would love to get some recordings from you. I mean, I think that that would be fascinating. So I love it.

Pace Morby:
You’re awesome.

Lauren Hardy:
Well Pace, this was fun. You need to get back to the lake. I really appreciate having you on this. Hopefully when COVID lifts and everything goes back to normal, we can do our coastal collaboration here in Newport Beach with us. That would be so fun. I was so bombed that we had to cancel it.

Pace Morby:
Can I say one last thing in closing? I love everybody on Wholesaling Inc. It’s amazing. Tom Krol, is there a better human being on this planet?

Lauren Hardy:
I know. He’s the best.

Pace Morby:
Oh my gosh. He’s unbelievable. And then Brent Daniels has been one of the most helpful, beneficial people in my life. And then I met you a couple of months ago and I’m like, “Yo, this girl is so amazing.” And it was cool, like when we were at Jamil’s house, what was that? Six, seven weeks ago?

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah.

Pace Morby:
And I was just like, “It’s so fun to hang out with other practitioners of this business and people who aren’t just teaching, but people who are practicing what they preach.” And it’s been an absolute joy getting to know you.

Lauren Hardy:
Thank you. No, I know. And you’ve given so much value. Just getting to know you you’ve taught me a lot and I’m so glad that we connected, and it was in one night we’re like, “We’re going to throw a happy hour.” Like, “You’re flying to California and we’re doing it.” We had this whole funding plan and you’re my pace, literally, Pace. You work at my pace of like-

Pace Morby:
Go, go, go.

Lauren Hardy:
Yeah, just go, go, go. We were just having a conversation and then we’re like, “Wait, we should throw a party together.”

Pace Morby:
I had a couple of people upset that that thing got canceled, very, very upset.

Lauren Hardy:
I know. Me too. I was so sad. We have to do it. It’s going to happen once we can safely do it. Anyway, you guys, for those who don’t know me, I’m Lauren Hardy. And if you guys are interested in virtual real estate investing, virtual wholesaling, I’ve got a course with Wholesaling Inc. I coach with them. It’s virtualinvestingmastery.com. And Pace, where are you on the socials? How could people find you?

Pace Morby:
Just follow me on Instagram. I’m constantly document … I’m the Gary V of wholesale. I am annoyingly consistent on Instagram that if you are following me, you have either muted me at this point or you truly do like what I put out there. So, follow me on Instagram, Pace Morby.

Lauren Hardy:
Awesome. Awesome. All right, guys. Till next time.

Pace Morby:
Have a good night, Lauren. Thank you so much.

Lauren Hardy:
Thanks. You too. Bye

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