Did you know that while considered an underutilized channel, online marketing is deemed one of the most effective in terms of generating high quality leads? This is something today’s guest can attest to and will discuss in detail in this episode.
Brandon Bateman is a digital advertising expert and the genius behind Bateman Collective, a company that offers a vast array of professionally-executed services designed to help clients find, engage, and convert customers.
However, while undeniably one of the most profitable lead sources available, online marketing is not for everyone. In this episode, Brandon shared all you need to know about this powerful marketing channel—who it is for, key things to take into account, what to expect in terms of ROI, and many others.
If you’re considering giving online marketing a try, this is one episode you can’t miss!
Using Online Marketing To Grow Your Wholesaling Business With Brandon Bateman
I am excited to be back with you, Rhino Nation. All of you reading and those that are brand new to the show, I want to welcome you. We are going to be talking about wholesaling specifically. Wholesaling is simply the art of finding deeply discounted properties that you can then turn for a huge profit. We will be breaking it down.
More importantly in this episode is we always get questions about marketing channels. What is working? What is not working? Are there any shifts? Are there any changes in the market? We are going to be talking about a marketing channel we love that we have scaled up in my own personal business here in Utah and is one that we are focusing on for 2020.
Get out your pens, pieces of paper, notebooks, or laptops and get ready to jot down some notes because this is something to start considering about what it is and how soon you can start implementing this marketing strategy. If you are thinking like, “Get it out there. What is it, Cody?” It is web in general. You hear people talking about PPC, which stands for Pay Per Click or SEO, Search Engine Optimization, or even Facebook, and how all three of these channels start to work together for your benefit and your business.
We have brought on a master at this. His name is Brandon Bateman. He will be sharing the ins and outs of this because I am not the genius behind this. I am just the one using the web in my business to help it explode and it has been the most profitable lead source for 2019. I am excited to have Brandon here with us. Brandon is with Bateman Collective. He is going to break this down. We are going to be asking questions and making sure you guys, by the end of this episode, understand what it is he does but also, why you will want to start integrating and putting this into play for your 2020 plan and going forward.
Brandon, how are you?
I am doing well, Cody. How are you doing?
I am good. Let’s walk through this. You have been in the industry for several years. You have been managing my own web for a few years and we have loved this relationship. We are going to break this down. Help our audience understand a little bit about what it is you do and why you are seeing this be such an effective marketing strategy in today’s market.
In everything that I do, what it comes down to is getting the right people, at the right time, with the right message, to help find leads for discounted properties. As you said before, there are three pillars to that. There is SEO, PPC, and Facebook. SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization. That is all about showing up higher on Google but not necessarily paying for each click. PPC is all the paid results on Google. Those are the first four listings on Google that people pay for. Facebook is all about social media. It is Facebook and Instagram. It is about reaching people who are likely to be distressed home sellers.
Get the right people at the right time with the right message to help find leads for discounted properties.
When you are talking about all these three pillars, you have got the SEO, the PPC, and Facebook. Is there one that weighs in heavier than the other or is it a collaboration or all of them? Tell us a little bit more about that. What is the importance of one over the other, or why all three?
I believe in all three. Far too often, people see the path to conversion as something that is superlinear. If someone clicks on an ad, they fill out a form and that is it. Whereas in reality, maybe someone searches on Google because they want to sell their house. They find your website and they get busy but then you retarget them with the Facebook ad the next day. They see that, go back to your website, and then the next day, they search your business name, click on your organic listing, and then you have three touchpoints right there. It is hard to say. Is that because of PPC? Is that because of Facebook? Is that because of SEO? The reality of it is that all three of those channels are helping you to get that lead.
A rule of thumb that people use in marketing is it takes seven interactions with a customer before they do any business with your brand. Maybe some of those happen on the salesperson or that is a little bit shorter for wholesaling than it is for some brands, but I strongly believe that you need to cover your bases. When someone is trying to find a company on any of these platforms or if they are clicking on the paid ads, they are clicking on the organic listings. If they are a distressed home seller, who’s on Facebook, scrolling through things, and could potentially be influenced by an advertisement, you need to cover those bases and push as much scale as you can on each platform.
I sit there and I think, do we even know the stats? Is it when you are adding PPC, SEO, or Facebook to your marketing channel for your wholesaling business, are we talking about all different age groups? Is it more like, “Only twenty-year-olds are on Facebook?” What is the reality behind all this marketing? Is it all age groups or are you only looking for a certain client within these channels?
We are trying to be as specific as we can. Obviously, with any marketing channel, you are going to start at the center of the target and lead away from that a little bit over time as you scale your budgets more, because there are only so many people that are in that exact core market. You will find that with digital marketing more so than a lot of channels, the core of the market is pretty big and effective. It takes a lot of budget to get past it. Usually, we are focused on a specific kind of customer.
Think about the age when you are talking about age. There is this false belief that it is just Millennials using the web or Facebook. Is that simply not true? Are we seeing if someone was to add this to their marketing channel? Are they seeing all ages click on this? Are people from 20 all the way up to 80 using Facebook or are we saying, “No, it is just this market?”
It is almost everybody. There might be some old people that don’t know how to use Google but at this point, most people are on most channels. The powerful thing about digital channels is it is not like you are just blanketing Facebook and reaching everybody. The fact of the matter is if you are looking at your market, there is going to be a higher percentage of younger people than there are older people on Facebook, probably because it does skew that way.
What you do is you target the older people on Facebook and then you can still make it so that 100% of the market is the kind of people you are looking for. Even in these age ranges, this is an archaic concept from marketing when it used to be done heavily on TV and on the radio that you are targeting women that are aged 25 through 34 and live in this area. Web introduces so many things that are so much more powerful than age.
The fact that someone is searching on Google, we buy ugly houses or how to sell my house fast for cash means so much more to you than their age, their gender, or exactly where they live if they are right in your target ZIP code, as long as they are within reach of your business and the areas where you are willing to do business. That is where the web takes it past the demographics, the psychographics, and the motivations of the people that we are trying to reach. That is what makes this so powerful.
You have been managing ours now for a few years. We are always asking like, “How do we grow this? How do we add a little bit more ad spend?” We see our growth in it. What is the expectation behind it? It is making sure our readers understand the power of this. Is this something that when you do turn this on is it instantaneous like, “This is beautiful. You are going to see the results in this,” or is it something that takes time and growth? Is there a strategy involved and the fruits come at a later time?
The answer is a little bit of both especially if you are differentiating channels. I tell people that there is a ramp-up period. Sometimes when I say that, they think, “I won’t get any leads for six months.” That is not the answer. You can get leads on day one. You are generating leads right out of the gate. The difference with the web is you are going to get a lot better at generating those leads over time. There are some different channels. The paid channels, like Facebook Ads and PPC on Google Ads, are going to get you the leads now. The fact that you are doing PPC now is going to help you do PPC better tomorrow, but it is not going to get you leads tomorrow. If you don’t have an ad spend tomorrow, you won’t have leads tomorrow. When it comes to SEO, you are not going to get leads now, next month, or a month after that.
After that, you will get a couple of leads and slowly it will ramp up over time. In five years, you are going to be getting leads that you could attribute to something that you did this year. SEO truly does ramp up like that. At the end of the day, you built up an asset that has a value that continues to deliver leads at a certain rate that doesn’t go away easily. As long as you maintain it, it will be there. That is the difference between these channels. Usually, the paid ones are more instantaneous but it takes some time to nail down how you need to be doing those. You will get leads on day one but they are not going to be as high quality or perhaps as cheap as the leads that you are getting a year into doing PPC or Facebook Ads. With SEO, it is a huge ramp-up but the ROI tends to be great on SEO because you are building that long-term asset.
These products, we nail them out the same. We are saying there is PPC, SEO, and then Facebook. Are there ways to do it where it is stand-alone or do you have to do all three of these together to make this work? Is there one of those arms that you are like, “If you were going to start one, I would pick this?” If so, what would it be?
I believe in all three of them but if you are going to start in one place, I think that PPC consistently outperforms other channels when it comes to wholesaling.
Is it your highest cost per lead as well? We are talking about SEO. You said longevity. That is your organic. Your cost per lead is going to be less over time. Facebook, I am assuming it is fairly inexpensive. Is PPC your highest cost per lead among the three?
That is right. PPC leads are going to be the most expensive leads that you get off the internet but they are going to consistently be the highest quality. I would pay easily 3 or 4 times as much for a PPC lead than I would for a Facebook lead. The reason is someone goes online, they go to Google and they search, “How to sell my house fast for cash,” or something along those lines. For Utah, we have any one of 3,000 things that we are targeting when it comes to that. They searched for something that tells us this person is a motivated house seller and then they see an ad that says exactly what you do. It says, “We buy homes fast for cash,” and then they decide to click on the ad and then they see a forum that says, “If you want an offer on your house, fill out this form.”
They decide to fill out the form. At that point, you will find few leads that are more qualified than those people. They tend to have extraordinary close rates. The huge advantage to that is your acquisitions manager is not going to be bogged down with hundreds of lower-quality leads. That is why I say Google Ads PPC is the place to start. SEO is a great channel but it is hard to start on because it does not make cashflow. You are not going to have deals now but as soon as you have the cashflow to dedicate some mind to that and say that it is an investment, do it.
Facebook is a great channel. It is a little bit more hit or miss than the other ones. It works exceptionally well for retargeting. Once you have website traffic, for example, from PPC, it starts working a little bit better. That helps Facebook’s algorithm to optimize more things. The more volume you have, the better Facebook is going to work. It is a little bit better to put it off until after you have PPC running well but at that point, it can be a great channel.
The real value of the web is its scalability, but it’s a pay-to-play game.
Guys some part that I wanted to share with you is when these leads come in from the web, we have such a unique training for our team here in Utah to make sure that you are treating these leads the way they need to be treated. I am sitting here right now looking at Brandon. He is shaking his head like, “Yes.” I remember, before you took over our leads, we were with a bigger company. The relationship didn’t work as well. It didn’t work for us. I remember sitting there thinking, “It is not working.” I didn’t know if it was our closing problem or the agency running it. We had all these open-ended questions.
When we turned it over to you, we instantly saw a boost. We saw an increase in leads. The leads were coming in a lot higher. That was a huge plus for us. Even with that being said, we had to look in the mirror and realize, when these leads come in, you have got to treat them a little bit more respectful than just your normal leads coming because with PPC, you are willing to pay a lot more for those leads than for a Facebook lead or even a direct mail lead because it is so right now. They are typing to you, “I want to sell my house fast,” versus they get your postcard or they get a cold call to them and they are like, “Maybe I would sell, let’s give them a call.” These are people searching for you. They are super hot.
Here is what we looked at. Many times, we disqualify leads so fast and we are thinking it is just the price. “They said they would be willing to take $250,000.” On a good day, the home will sell for $250,000. “This still needs a lot of fix-up so I am not going on this appointment. If you were selling at a fast price, wouldn’t you want your highest and best offer?”
No matter what your distressed situation is, everyone always wants their highest and best so we got to make sure we are taking the time to find the motivation and not saying that price determines the quality of the motivation. You have got to say, “I understand you have got a price in mind. That is awesome. That may or may not be able to happen. I am glad that I know this number but tell me, it seems like a great home, why are you considering selling this?” Start getting to the why, not how much.
We found ourselves disqualifying a lot of leads based on the price and not sifting through the why. Why are they motivated? Why are they wanting to sell? Find the why. Once we started going deeper there, we found out not only were these leads so much better but we found that people hold up their guards. They all want their highest and best. We all would want the highest and best for homes. Look past the price and get to the why. They are looking for you.
This is no longer cold calling where somebody says, “Maybe I would sell,” and you caught them in the cold blue. These are people searching for you. You have got to treat it with respect. Remember that when you play with these leads, you have got to quit worrying about the price of the home or whatever they tell you money-wise, but start digging for the why. You will start to see that we were able to convert a lot of these leads into good deals.
I don’t know if you even know our outside marketing. Has Mark ever shared outside what we are doing and other lead channels to even compare? That may be a no. I don’t know how much you know of our business. I sit here questioning, “He should know everything. I want him to know everything so we can keep comparing,” but you may not know all those direct answers. How is it comparing? Do you have answers or stats on how this works compared to direct mail or anything like that? Is that like a, “No, I stay in my channel and roll?”
Mark and I have done some looking at things and seeing what the numbers are. All I know is ROI. I don’t know how many leads you get from direct mail or how much it costs you but I do know that in 2019, the web, in general, if you loop all of them together, was the most cost-effective marketing channel that you had per deal.
When I say this, I say this with a huge smile on my face. If you are in the market for web and you are looking right now and you are interviewing who is that company going to be for, I want you to understand. If you are not in the market for it, start considering being in the market for it and start honing in on adding this marketing channel. This is what jazzes us for 2020. Moving forward, everything is moving to the web. I hope this is a forever thing. I see so much potential and growth. This web has been performing great for us. If someone was looking for a guide to manage PPC or if they want to do it in-house if they wanted to learn on their own, what are the key things they should be looking for?
This probably applies to a lot of other channels too. The problem I see with some people when they are looking for this is their company’s not ready. Web does have a ramp-up period. It does work better in month 6 than it did in month 1. The reason is if you have anybody data-driven, who’s managing your campaigns, you realize that data-driven doesn’t mean anything until you have data. You need to collect it, deal with data sparsity issues, and optimize it so that you are getting the best results that you can.
For you to do that, when it is your only channel, shelling out all your money every month, that can be tough if your business isn’t already producing cashflow. If I were to start a wholesaling company right now, I don’t know if the web is the place I would start. I don’t think it is a place for beginners but I do think that it is a place for companies that are already doing deals and are looking for the marketing channel that is going to take them to the next place.
Here is a better question. We are breaking this down real granular. If someone is beginning, it is going to be tough. You have got to give it time. Sometimes, right out of the gates, it is like, “We don’t have time.” Guys, if you are just beginning, this is good knowledge to know that it is probably not the place to start but it doesn’t mean it is not a place to have in your mind when you start getting consistent. If you named your best client is it someone that is doing as simple as one deal a month? Are we talking about a few deals a month? What are your best clients so they can start to map out at what point they should start considering this and actually turn it on?
Once you pass that threshold of 4 to 5 deals a month then you are looking at a much better range to be able to do this with the amount of money it takes to get the web dialed in. The reason is the web is going to give you more scale than a lot of these channels are. It is the goldmine that seems to not ever end. You can invest more money into it.
That is the real value of the web. It is so scalable but it is a pay-to-play game. It is not one that you want to mess around with. When you do web, you want to do it. That is what I would say is the cutoff. You have got to have your sales system in place and know how you are following up with the leads. You have to have the cashflow to support it while you are building it. If you do then I am very confident that it turns into one of your most cost-effective channels, the kind that you can throw more money at quickly, scale, and get similar results. That is a real advantage.
It is commitment-wise. When someone is looking into this, they are at the point where they are at 3, 4, or 5 deals a month consistently. How long should you prepare for like “I need to consider this. If I am going to play this game, I need to have it play for a minimum of X months before I start to see the fruits and be like, ‘I am glad I did it this long?’”
Part of that depends on how much you are spending. I would say, on average, for a lot of these companies, for the paid stuff, you are looking at six months to get a feel for how it works. You also have to realize in your industry, a $20,000 assignment value is pretty normal. A couple of deals can make a big difference. When there is something like that, you can have a lot of random variabilities, which I am sure anybody reading this has had with all other marketing channels. You have to give it a good six months.
SEO, I think is a different game. If you start doing SEO, in 30 days, you should start seeing your rankings improve. Maybe you start ranking number 100 and you go to 90 and then the next month you can go to 80, then the next month you should go to 70. If you are not seeing that then there is something wrong. In SEO, you will see results in terms of that but you are not going to see leads because, in the 70th position of Google, you are not going to get leads. Nobody goes that far.
No one is clicking to the tenth page. Maybe you will get lucky.
A couple of deals can make a big difference.
Once that 70 becomes 50 and then 30 and then 20 and then 10, you toss all now. We are doing well. We are in the top three for a lot of our target keywords and then you get leads from it. I would say for leads from SEO, give it a year. You should see rankings happening 30 days into it. You are not going to be ranking number 100 and then after a year, you are going to jump up to number three and start getting a bunch of leads. If it is not working, you are going to know before then. Expect to see things climbing. Don’t expect a deal on month three from SEO. It takes some time.
The quality, though, when you start to see it on the PPC up above in a paid ad and then 1st, 2nd, or 3rd spot, you are basically capturing, I don’t know if it is a mindset thing. Now we are talking about the language. It is not even my language. Some people only love the pay-per-click and some people only love the language but essentially between the two, you start to catch both personalities. That is when the magic starts to happen.
The term you are looking for is share of voice. On Google, your company is prominent. PPC is always going to get you to the top. Google was a smart company in making a business model that actually produces revenue. The first four spots are always going to be PPC. Some people skip right over those. Some people don’t even know that those exist. I say, “I run Google Ads,” and they say, “What are Google Ads? There are no ads on Google.” It is silly. There definitely are ads on Google. They just don’t notice the little ad next to it.
You will notice that there is a lot of volume that goes to the paid listings, probably even more than what goes to the organic and wholesaling. The organic listings are right behind there. There is a lot of volume that goes there. If you can end up showing up twice on Google on the first page for people that are looking to sell their homes quickly for cash then imagine how much volume that can be in terms of closed deals in your area. That is the cream of the crop. The best people are going right there. You have the real estate right there. That is the real value of this.
Rhino Nation, those reading, a key thing that I have written down and I want to share again is, “Everyone better jump into it right now.” He also shared who it is not for. If he was starting his business right now, wholesaling, he says, “I probably wouldn’t be doing it.” Guys, we were out there with a mission.
Think about this. Maybe your mission is serving people at a high level but that mission doesn’t exist or keep going if the income isn’t coming in. You have got to have that income coming in. Whatever your mission is, that is great but you have got to have the income to support that mission.
If you are in the beginning stages, I am grateful he would share with you that it may not be the right time at this moment but it doesn’t mean keep it on your mind. Once you start doing the 3, 4, 5 deals, imagine if you could boost that up another 2, 3, or 4 deals a month by turning on the web, having all three of these pillars, SEO, PPC, and Facebook, working together in your behalf and then realizing the timeframe. That is crucial too. Many times we are sold that it is like a get rich quick.
I’ve never been a fan of that in any area especially the web. I love that. It is honest, straightforward, and commit yourself. If you are at that level and you are playing at that level, commit yourself to getting to that next level. Count on that six-month mark. Yes, you could get deals right out of the gates, but the magic behind it all is when that six months and further start working on your behalf. Ultimately after a year, you have got SEO now working on your behalf and it has got to be managed right. Is there anything you would add to that list to put a bow on what you shared with us?
You nailed all the key points. One thing that I want to be clear about here is we are being super transparent about how this works. If I wanted to, I could throw out a bunch of case studies of clients that get a bunch of deals even on their first month from leads that come in on day one on this kind of thing. You know better than anyone that I am an under-promise, over-deliver kind of guy. I am far on that other side. You want to be committed to the long-term if you are going to do something like this. If you are hearing conflicting things like, “Visual marketing is the thing that is going to get you sales tomorrow,” it does happen.
You are saying that digital marketing is the same as what we are talking about on the web. Is that what you mean when you say digital marketing?
That is what we are talking about here. It does work and it can work fast but it doesn’t work at its best until it is optimized a little bit further down the road.
Also, to be transparent, when we started with Brandon, we were just doing PPC. It wasn’t even all three of them.
We started with PPC and SEO, not Facebook. We did some SEO but we weren’t doing a very aggressive approach when we saw ranking improvements then, later on, we started to be more aggressive. Now SEO is a lot of your online business. You did some SEO before I came into the picture. You have been doing it for several years. It is one of those things where it is hard to say a year’s the cutoff because the fact of the matter is tomorrow’s better than today and today’s going to be better than tomorrow.
Depending on the market, that can also change the speed of it. It is not like whether you are in Dallas or Louisiana, it is not like all things are created equal. I am assuming your market also has a play on the timeframe that it takes to get to the first page, versus I am assuming competition, if you are in a competitive market, it may take a little bit longer but if you are in a market that doesn’t exist, it could happen pretty quick. Am I seeing that wrong?
It is a self-adjusting market. The thing with SEO is it is not limitless. There are only so many spots on Google. It almost sounds like a pessimistic view of life. It is not about being good. It is about being better than the other people who are trying to rank for those same things. If you are better than them then you can beat them. In a rural market, for example, you could rank in SEO to number one probably pretty quickly but that wouldn’t be worth as much as it would in the middle of a larger metropolitan area in which it would take a lot longer to get to that point. There are some tradeoffs. Usually, the markets that are easier to dominate are easier to do so because they are less competitive, and it is less of a big win. It goes the other way as well. Along that spectrum, some markets are perhaps more favorable or less favorable of different sizes.
Rhino Nation, the key thing is we always want to bring the experts. If we are not the expert, you won’t hear us preach about PPC or SEO because we don’t know one thing about it. What we have done is we wanted to bring Brandon on because we have loved the results that we received in my business here in Utah. We wanted to bring him on to open your mind and eyes to what the future will be. If you are not doing it or if you have been doing it and you are not seeing the results, how do you start looking at is it a closing problem? Is it the agency that is currently representing you? Is it self-managed and you don’t know what you are doing? There are so many things you can look at in this moment and start to have a conversation with yourself.
Are you ready for it? If you are already doing it, are you performing at high levels where you are seeing good results? If it is the beginning stages, it is keeping that in your mind for when you get consistent deal flow to start opening up because this is going to be a big area of focus for us for 2020. We know there is so much room to scale and grow where so many times all the other marketing channels have a ceiling or a cap. This has so much more room for expansion. We are excited about that. If you want to begin to have that conversation, to see if it is a good fit and see if it is something you want to look into and you don’t know where to go. If you don’t currently have a guy and you are looking for someone, we brought Brandon on so you can know that it is someone we have learned to trust.
I like to call it love, like, and respect because it is hard to find them. When you find them, you want to be a promoter of good news. If you are looking for those people, go over to Learn More where you can fill out a short application and hop on the phone to begin that conversation. Remember, it is not for everyone. It is for those that are already doing the consistent deal flow. It is not for the brand-new beginner that is ready to get into it. You got to have the income to support the mission. Remember that.
If you are consistently doing deals, what we do is we set it up at www.WholesalingInc.com/Web, where they can begin to have the conversation with someone on Brandon’s team, where you can begin to see what it is, what are the services, what is the pricing and what does it look like so that you can start dominating an area that we have dominated and been excited about for 2019 but super excited for 2020. Is there anything you want to add to that, Brandon?
I am excited to see what more people can do while they are on the web. It is such an underutilized channel. It is something that I think is timely to get on.
Rhino Nation, this has been an incredible episode. We are grateful that you joined us. Hopefully, you took down some great notes and you have learned something that has opened your mind to different things you can do in the future. Until we get on this next episode, I want you guys getting out there taking massive imperfect action, getting out there making offers so you can get one step closer to your first deal or your next. We will see each one of you in the next episode. God bless, guys.
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About Cody Hofhine
Cody Hofhine, a multiple Inc 5000 Business Owner. Co-Founder of Wholesaling Inc. the #1 Real Estate coaching program across the nation. Co-Founder of Joe Homebuyer the leading Real Estate Franchise. A successful Real Estate investor/mentor and sought-after Speaker.
Cody has coached over 3 thousand students on how to successfully build their Real Estate businesses through his real estate training as well as helped individuals perform at their highest levels with his one-on-one mentoring.
Cody used his background in sales to quickly build multiple 7 and 8 figure Real Estate Businesses that all start on the foundation of clarity or Vision and Purpose.
Cody loves being with his family and doing crazy tricks behind a boat.