If you’re ready to take your business to the 6 to 7-figure range, this episode is exactly what you need to hear!
Today’s guest is no less than Todd Toback, the CEO and founder of one of the largest volume buying companies on the West Coast, Get It Done House Buyers Inc. He is also the head of training at No Limits Real Estate Investing, where he teaches people how to scale their real estate businesses.
Every now and then, there will be episodes on this podcast that you’d want to listen to over and over again. This episode is definitely one of them. Come to think of it, you will not only learn negotiation basics, but you’ll also get an insight into the mindset of someone who’s highly skilled in coaching, sales, sales management, and negotiation!
So many gold nuggets in today’s episode, so be prepared to be mind blown!
How To Master The Art Of Negotiation With Todd Toback
This show is on fire. This is going to be the one that you read time and time again because I’ve got the master with me, Mr. Todd Toback.
Brent, thanks for having me on the show. I’m excited. Before we started the session, we were talking about the most important thing in this whole business. That is, converting leads into contracts. Many people are like, “What are you using? Bandit signs, phone calls, PPC, text, or ringless voicemail? What’s working?” You see all these people dabbling in everything. They’re not talking about the most important thing because now, in your database, there’s probably $100,000 sitting in there. That needs to be converted. If you’re brand new reading this and you haven’t generated leads, that is another show. In this episode, we’re going to talk about closing the deal.
This is interesting because I push talking to people, making sure you’re proactive, making many calls, and talking to distressed property owners. Do you know what’s great? People do it, and they get a pipeline of leads. Their number one thing that they reach out to me about is, “I can’t get them to sign the contract. I don’t know what I’m doing. They’re ghosting me on the phone. When I get to the appointment, I’m so nervous. I don’t know what to do and say. I’m trying to hope that they sign. Most of the time, they don’t. It gets frustrating.” They then say they take their foot off the gas from making the calls because they’re like, “I’m going to be disappointed because I can’t convert the leads.”
I know how they feel. We’ve talked about this. It’s not something that comes naturally to you. If you’re reading this, when we’re discussing, we’re projecting our energy and bringing it all to you because we want to have a transfer of energy. We have our doubts and our fears, thinking the seller is going to think we’re a fraud. As a matter of fact, I remember my first real estate deal. I remember I sent out some letters. It’s funny. I used to be the young guy in the business, and all of a sudden, I’m like, “Wait a minute.” They didn’t have lists.
I had to go down to the county records and send letters. I remember sending out 41 letters, getting a phone call, and the phone rang. There was some excitement, but I was nervous. My heart was beating through my chest. I’m like, “What if the seller thinks I’m a fraud? What if they don’t have any money? I didn’t. How am I going to close? I don’t have a buyer.” It’s all of this stuff. I’m like, “What if I fill out the paperwork wrong?” I remember going there with my heart pumping out of my chest. I sent in some motivation, and that’s the only phone call I got.
I had to go. I went there and met with a seller. Long story short, 4 or 5 days later, I got the contract. By the way, I did everything wrong. I probably could have gotten a better price or used a better contract. If you’re reading this, number one is to go out there and do it. If you’re generating leads, go out there and do it. There’s some fear holding you back, but you must have courage. Courage is taking action in spite of fear. If I could communicate anything, that would be it. The second part is that if you’re serious about this business, want to make money, and get into that 6 figure and 7 figure range, you must refine your craft and get good at talking to sellers, specifically seller presentation and getting in front of that.
There’s not a lot of training on it. I’ve looked around a lot. I go through your course. Besides your course, setting it up, going over the seller objection and all the pre-qualifying, and making sure that these people will sign the contract timing-wise. There’s nothing that’s been put together until now.
Let me talk about this because we offer a solution where you have to start. No money is going to exchange hands with somebody unless you can solve a problem. We get paid in proportion to the problems we see. Someone’s like, “How do you make this person sign the contract?” We’re not going to make anyone do anything. It’s not going to happen. First, you have to pre-qualify. That’s going to be important. I’m using some of the techniques that I’m going to talk about in this. You can use them in seller presentations. Someone’s got to have a problem before you meet with them. Once you’ve determined that, then you meet with the seller and use these techniques.
Courage is taking action despite fear.
On the surface, for anybody new that wants to implement what we’re talking about on this show, off the bat, you need to pre-qualify the four pillars, which is the condition of the property, timeline to sell, motivation, and price. Todd is talking about next-level stuff where you’re giving in and understanding the five different communication styles. You’re deep diving and understanding why they’re giving you the objections, what the most common ones are, and how to respond to them.
We’ve talked a little bit about your YouTube channel and my YouTube channel. We’re going to talk about where the rubber meets the road in the street. That’s meeting with a seller because we both know how you feel. Let’s pretend like we’re driving. We’re driving out there, and you are brand new. Maybe you’ve been to another appointment and been kicked in the teeth a couple of times. It doesn’t feel good.
I’m nervous. I’m not sure if they want to sell or like me or what’s going on.
The number one thing I always tell people to do is get there about ten minutes early. Knock on the door early. You want to get your car right and park down the way. The reason we want to park down the street is because you don’t want to give the seller anxiety, especially if we buy houses sign is on your car. Park down the street. You need to put yourself in place. We’re saying, “I’m going to project 100% certainty that I can buy this house.” That is not to be confused with eagerness.
Do not confuse certainty with eagerness. I can buy your house, but I have to make a profit. I will buy your house if I can make a profit. I’d love to be able to do business, but I’ve got to make a profit. You’ve got to say that, practice it, and say it in your mirror until someone walks by your car and thinks there’s a crazy man or woman talking to themselves. Once you believe that, you are ready to go into the house. Leave your contracts in the car. Go up there.
I would be dressed in business casual. Don’t show up in a t-shirt but don’t show up in a suit. Be ready so that you can go both ways. That’s how I like to have my people show up to an appointment, although I’ve heard plenty of people locking up a contract in their board shorts. I just found that’s neutral. When you go with the seller, what you want to do is you want to go in. For the majority of sellers, you want to get in and build rapport. Everyone’s going to say, “Todd, I know what rapport is.”
“I’ll just ask him about stuff and agree with them. I try to relate to them.” It’s not what you do.
No, you don’t. The three levels are, “How are you doing?” “I’m great.” “I see that you’re a New York Jets fan. How much do you want for your house?” No. You’re going to have to date a little bit. It’s important. There are three levels of rapport, and I can go into this deeper and some other videos. The first level of report is where you’re talking about places they’ve been, people, or things in their house. That is good. That’s where most people live. It’s not bad, but you want to stay there. You want to keep pointing to stuff or talking about stuff until you find an anchor, and then stick to that. There is an exception to all of this. That’s when you’re dealing with a real driver personality. Eighty percent of people right here are going to live in this world.
Let me give you an example of an anchor that happened in my life. I had an appointment in Mesa. This is when I was out, going on appointments, being in my own acquisition, and talking. I found out that the seller went to high school with my mom. They have a great friendship. They were in Palm or something. It’s the whole thing. I got that deal. It was incredible like, “Got it.” That’s an example. There are an unlimited amount of anchors that you could call up.
You keep going until you find one and then latch on it. There is an exception to this where the seller is a high driver like, “I don’t want you to talk about this. Get to the point.” It’s time to bail and go right into negotiation. Let them drive the show and show you who’s boss. That’s that person. The second part of rapport is you’ve got to go deeper because people think, “You went to high school with my mother.” You are not done. The second thing is you keep this conversation going until they teach you something. Do people like to talk or listen?
They love to talk.
The second level is when they teach you something. As for me, I love tomatoes. If someone’s going in the back, I’m like, “You’ve got tomatoes? I love tomatoes.” You then let them teach you, “How’d you do this? How’d you do that? Did you plant them in February? Did you plant them in April? How do you get them so big?” Be real. Find something that you can latch onto, sit there, and forget that you have a contract. Let it go. That’s how you be real. Right. Sit there and work. You might be going for an hour or two. You’ve got $40,000 on the line.
Take your time. Love the one you’re with. That’s level two. Do you think you’re done? You are not done. Level three is they give you some tomatoes to take home. They give you the basket and put them in a little paper towel in front, “How do I bring you back your basket?” “Keep the basket.” Now you know you’re ready to move on. It’s important. Those are the three levels of rapport. I don’t think I’ve ever talked about that before publicly. That’s something that we talk about internally with our acquisition search list. That’s level one.
Step two is where the pain step comes up. People always try to rush this. What you want to do is slow the process down. That was painful. You want to slow it down and dig into the seller’s pain. You want to pour salt into the wound. What I mean by that is that you were priming them to sell now. The faster you’re in there, and the faster you’re out, the faster you’re like, “This was easy. I’ll meet with five other investors.”
Some people might be saying, and I say it sometimes in my head, “That seems evil.” You’re pouring salt into somebody’s wound. These guys have a problem and an issue. When you look at it, at some point, they’re going to have to make a decision. A lot of these distressed property owners do not have a track record of making great decisions. They stay stuck in a rut. Even Tony Robbins talks about it. You’ve got to hurt them before you can heal them. You’ve got to make them face reality. That’s what you’re talking about.
Thank you for clarifying that. The biggest thing is that they’re in this position where they’re a natural procrastinator. I’m trying to pour salt into this wound so that they cut this cancer out. You’ve got to cut the cancer out. I’m persuading them to talk about it. What we do is we start asking about the problems, “Tell me about your son who’s been living in the property for twenty years rent-free.” I start using techniques that we talk about in the No Limits Sales System, like, “The great thing is you live here for another ten years. He’s your son. You’d be okay with that.”
No money will exchange hands with somebody unless you can solve a problem.
You go the opposite of how they would go, and you get them talking about it. What you want to do is a seller may want to move on, but you keep going back to this and say, “Your son maybe picks up the place for you. Maybe he’ll pay the mortgage. He’s got some roommates.” You stick there. It’s pain and you can keep going. You might say, “How about you evict him, fix it up and sell for top dollar?” They go, “I’m not doing it. I don’t have the money.” It’s more pain, “How about selling with a real estate agent?” Some people are scared to state these things. Why?
First, they’re embarrassed a couple of times. Often, they’re embarrassed by it. Sometimes they don’t understand the reality of the situation that they’re in until it’s too late and getting close to that time, but it’s not the time when everything’s about to fall off the cliff.
A lot of wholesalers go out there and are scared to give the sellers other options. Why? It’s because they’re scared of losing the deal. This is part of your internal game. It’s very important. Brent, I have a two-day event coming up.
This has been something that’s been months in the making. I can’t believe it’s here. You can check out information on it at WholesaleCertifiedPro.com. It is bananas. Not only that, but we put together a formal seller presentation.
Go to Wholesale Certified Pro if you want to know more about that. Step two is that there and only the seller at this point should start to score. They want to move on. They just want to give it to the numbers and the contract. No, you live here until they get frustrated. You want to throw 5 or 6 different options at them until you prime them to make a decision at this point.
“Why don’t you list it? Why don’t you get a private loan? Why don’t you refinance the house and pool some money? Why don’t you rent it out?”
“I want to get rid of the house.” You want to keep saying that until they say that. “I told you. I just want to sell the house.” You heard a little bit of that frustration. That’s how you know you’ve marinated this deal. As you said, we are there to help. Yes. We’re going to agitate the situation. More importantly and accurately, we’re going to have the seller agitated for themselves until they’re going to start saying out loud all the things that have gone on to the property. We’re going to get them to say that by using something called the stealth mismatch, basically going the opposite of what most people would say.
I love that analogy you gave about cutting out cancer because it is financial cancer. For a lot of people, there is nothing more deadly to their finances than a property that is run down, a property they can’t fix up, a property they inherited and can’t take care of, to all of those things. It truly is. That’s hitting me for the first time. You’re saying you got to go in like a doctor. You’ve got to diagnose and hurt them with the facts, “If you don’t cut this out, this is what’s going to happen.”
Once they’re primed, this is where most people drop the ball. They’re like, “The best I could do is $150,000. Take it or leave it.” You’re on a date. What you’ve got to do is you’ve got to dance. One of my mentors taught me this, Peter Conti and David Finkel. I don’t think they even teach real estate anymore. They’re doing lease options. They said, “Use the what if.” Let’s pretend like you think you want to come in at $150,000. Let’s pretend like we’ve talked about numbers a little bit, “What if I could pay $110,000 or $120,000? Is that something that you’d accept?”
What it is is that you get a reaction from them. It’s not a yes or no. For some reason, I used the tone, and he knows how I cushion that. “What if I could do that?” It’s probably not hypothetical, “I don’t know.” You then start going through this stuff, “I’m not saying that you want this, but what if I could close in ten days? You wouldn’t want to close any sooner than that, wouldn’t you? What if I could take the property with your son intact? That’s not something you probably would want, but what if?”
You get them talking about all these different sections of the contract, and you start writing things down. There are a few things that you have to do, 1) Price, 2) The closing timeline, 3) Any other terms like occupancy. Those are the three main things that you have to agree on. If you can’t agree on the price, go to 2 and 3. Nail those down. “What I hear you saying is that you would like a ten-day close. I also see that you’d like me to buy the house with your son in there.” Finally, this is where you were the one who had it, “It sounds like you want $150,000. I told you I could only pay $120,000. What are we going to do about that?”
“I might be able to come to meet you in the middle.”
“Like $120,000 to $135,000?”
Take your time and love the one you’re with.
“I’d want closer to $135,000.”
“Like $130,000 to $135,000?”
“$130,00 would be the lowest. That’s it.”
Let’s get to something called the range technique. We laugh. It’s joking. It’s non-threatening. I’m not like, “Use this. I just use that.” You got a little chuckle out of that. It felt like, “I was in the negotiation.” When you meet with them, you write all these things down. The hypothetical is $130,000. It’s non-threatening. I got you down. By using the range, you came up with a number. I tested you. I pushed you. $2,000 or $3,000 can make a lot of difference in business. Keep doing that.
Now you’re there and go back to building that level three. Beforehand, I’m pretending like I’m eating tomatoes. The tomatoes are there. Come back, and build a rapport, “I know we’re close here, but I want to read this thing.” Go back to the pain step, “Todd, I told you. I’m done.” Now you’re ready to go. At this point, you want to make it the seller’s idea, “You want me to do this and this.” What’s the next step?
Sign the contract.
I’ve got some paperwork in the car. I keep it in there. You might have to get it. Get the paperwork. We’re paraphrasing this. We’re going to go into this deep. This is one sliver we’re going to talk about. If you want to go more and find out about this two-day experience, go to Wholesale Certified Pro.
We don’t do a lot of events at Wholesaling Inc. Todd and I got together and from the bottom of our hearts, we looked at everything. Todd and I have been coaching for years. We have incredible people. People are asking for things that they’re missing or feel like is the biggest challenge. We put together a two-day intensive, but it’s a transformation. That’s what this whole thing’s about. It’s not only the business, making more money, and being more profitable, which is huge, but also the mindset.
You can’t be the same person making $50,000 a month or a year that you are making $100,000 or $1 million a year. It’s a different person. We want to pull you up there. Not only that, but we’re going to be talking about lead generation, conversion with the perfect seller presentation, and then disposition with different techniques there. It’s heavy on wholesale and some other techniques, lease options, seller financing, and some subject-to. It’s phenomenal. If anybody’s interested in that, that is WholesaleCertifiedPro.com.
Let me get into the fifth step. This is how you make sure that you never lose a deal. As the seller is signing, I want you to do something called the boomerang. This is where you’ve got to grab your bootstraps. You’ve got to have some courage to throw away the deal and say, “Mr. Seller, are you sure you want to do this?” You throw it away. The harder you throw it away, what happens to a boomerang?
It comes back.
If you were going to lose that deal, if they changed their mind at the table, they’re going to call you the next day. It’s important that you throw it away, have them latch onto it, and get the contract. This is important. Once you get the contract, say, “Someone from the title is going to call you in 24 hours and schedule all the paperwork. Look out for that.” This is an opportunity for everyone to keep a promise. The more promises you give and keep, the more that deal will stay buttoned up. Get the contract signed, give them a copy, and take a picture for yourself.
Let them keep the original. That always makes them feel better. Let them keep the original and send it to your title company. Write that in there. Tell them you’ll call them in 24 hours. Make sure they call within 2:00 or 3:00, not in the middle of the night. The title company calls and says, “I’ve got a signing schedule for you on Friday of next week. Are you good to go?” Lock it up. They feel good. Hopefully, $20,000 or more, as much as $200,000 if they want a lot more, in the bank. That is a brief synopsis of the selling system.
What I like to add a little tip to that is I have on my phone an app called TurboScan™. I take a picture of the contract as soon as it’s signed. It scans in, and I send it to the title company instantly. I leave the original with the seller. They’ve got it. I’ve got it here. I leave it with them. They’re feeling good. I’ve already opened up escrow. At 9:00 AM the next morning, my escrow officer is calling this seller, getting the whole ball rolling. You know that as well as I do.
We talk about it a lot in this intensive. If you get the right title company or escrow company, they will do 90%. Thank you, Todd. I know that your time is short. You’ve got to jump on a flight. That was incredible. You were the best. Everybody knows it and should know it. Everybody out there reading, if you are interested in taking it to the next level and having a hands-on, intense transformational experience, make sure you check out WholesaleCertifiedPro.com.
Awesome, Brent. Thanks.
See you, guys. Love you.
- Todd Toback
- YouTube – Todd Toback Real Estate Investing
- No Limits Sales System
- Be sure to join the Wholesaling Inc Facebook group
About Brent Daniels
“Brent Daniels is a multi-million dollar wholesaler in Phoenix, Arizona… and the creator of “Talk To People” — a simple, low cost, and incredibly effective telephone marketing program…
Also known as “TTP”… it helps wholesalers do more, bigger, and more profitable deals by replacing traditional paid advertising (postcards, yellow letters, bandit signs, and PPC) with being proactive and taking action every single day!
Brent has personally coached over 1,000 wholesalers enrolled in his “Cold Calling Mastery” training, and helped 10,000’s of others who listen to him host the Wholesaling Inc. podcast, watch his YouTube channel, and attend his live events…
A natural leader, Brent combines his passion for helping others with his high energy, “don’t-wait-around-for-business” attitude to help you CRUSH your wholesaling goals as quickly and easily as possible!”