Posted on: January 29, 2020
WI 351 | Radio Marketing

 

If you’ve been wholesaling for some time, you probably already know marketing is the lifeblood of your business. However, there is one key aspect not many people are aware of: the consistency of your marketing is just as important as marketing itself. If being consistent with marketing is something you struggle with, you already have something in common with today’s awesome guest. Amazingly, he’s still closing lucrative deals on a consistent basis. His secret? Radio marketing!

David Dodge has been using radio marketing for almost two years now. Unique and very effective, radio has not only helped him stay consistent with his marketing, it also generated high quality leads for him. What’s even more impressive? Radio marketing brought in a lot of money while allowing him to cut his total marketing budget in half!

If you’re looking to automate your marketing, get high quality leads, and get better results for less, radio marketing would be perfect for you. If you’d like to know what to expect and would like to assess if it is the right fit, consider listening to this episode a must!

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This Set It And Forget It Marketing Channel Delivers

Episode Transcription

It is a pleasure to be hanging out with a good buddy of mine, David Dodge. What’s happening, David?

I’m doing good. Thanks for having me.

If I’m having you, it’s going to be a good time. You and I know each other well. We’ve built a great friendship and done some business together.

Good to talk to you, Chris. How’s the weather? Everyone that knows about Chris Arnold knows that he’s living the vacation life all the time. It’s every day. I love it.

Down in Tulum. You’re going to be down here yourself.

I’m on my way. Bags are packed. I’m ready to rock.

I’m looking forward to having you. We’re going to have a great time. David, tell us about you. You’re in St. Louis, but for people reading, who is David Dodge and what type of business are you doing? Give us a little bit about your background.

As you said, I’m in St. Louis. My name is Dave. I have been wholesaling properties for five years since 2015. I’ve done about 400 transactions in that time period. I’ve been investing in real estate for about fifteen since 2005. For the first ten, I didn’t know about discounted properties and motivated sellers. I was buying 1 or 2 a year and paying 20% down on my loans. I was a rookie. A couple of years ago, I learned about locating motivated sellers and building relationships with banks. We have about 65 rental properties at this point too. We’re rocking the boat.

You got a pretty aggressive goal. What’s your goal for the rental?

I want to have 150 rentals and that’s not necessarily doors. We have some multifamilies, but the way we count them as it was more along the lines of roofs. We wanted to have 150 properties in the next 24 to 36 months. We had about maybe 12 or 14 before we started buying aggressively. In 2018, we’ve picked up about 50 properties.

Radio can reach people that you wouldn’t be able to reach normally.

That’s what I’m talking about. I love your energy as always. There’s no one that does it with more flair and style.

I’m trying to have fun all the time.

Let’s talk about radio. That’s one of the reasons I have you on.

I love this topic. Radio is great.

Let me ask you this. When you and I connected, you weren’t utilizing radio. That was one of the first things as we were adding value to one another. You said, “Chris, can you help me set up a radio in St. Louis?” My first question to you is, “What attracted you to radio?” Why did you say, “I need to get this set up for my business?” What was it?

There are so many reasons, but one of them was the ability to reach people that I wouldn’t be able to normally reach. You’re talking about a whole different medium that’s broadcasted 30 to 50 miles in some cases in every direction. There are motivated sellers everywhere. I know you guys teach this to people, but at any given time, there are 150 motivated sellers in a ten-mile radius of where you’re at. You just don’t know them. They don’t know how to reach you. You don’t know how to reach them, so getting that message out there to the broader audience was awesome.

Not only that I love that the most, but I’ll be honest with you guys. I am terrible at marketing. I’m not terrible at creating and executing it, I’m terrible at being consistent. The whole thing about marketing is that if you don’t do it consistently, you’re throwing money away. The ability to make a message consistent on autopilot is super attractive to me. That’s what sold me the most on the fact that I needed to be in that space.

We say, “Set it and forget it.” Did you feel like when you set up on radio and got it running, it was pretty automated? Did you just have to wait for the phone to ring and answer it?

We didn’t even have to wait for the phone to ring. It rang the second day we were running ads. It rings immediately. That’s the cool thing too about this kind of marketing. There are lots of ways to do marketing. Again, it’s all about being consistent. In a lot of ways, you have to feed that machine, and then you have to wait. With radio, you don’t. The message is out right then and there. A lot of strategies in terms of making your number easy and repeating the number multiple times, but a very few times will I get a call or a lead from somebody from a radio ad, that’s like, “I heard your ad last month.” It’s usually today, yesterday, or within 2 or 3 days. That’s really cool. It seems to be more of an instant way of marketing.

You’ve helped me put together a super creative ad, which is awesome. I know you have a lot of different ads that you run, but having a catchy ad will sometimes get people to call you to tell you they liked your ad, but they don’t even have a property to sell. After you started talking to them, they’re curious to learn more about you and want to have you out, and then they will have a property. It’s a unique way of going through that.

WI 351 | Radio Marketing

Radio Marketing: With radio marketing, the leads that come in are awesome because the people’s motivation is high, and they’re willing to sell at a discount.

 

Did you ever get hate calls on radio? Is someone telling you, “Stop spamming me?” Let’s say you might get that on direct mail or some other traditional stuff.

No, not at all. There are people saying they like the ad and it’s funny or catchy, but it’s never that way. With direct mail, we’ve had people mail back letters with feces on them. There are some hateful people out there. We’re paying the government or the post office to deliver it legally. With the radio, people can change the station if they don’t like it, but with mail, they have to get it.

What about the quality of lead? What did you see there from the quality of lead with radio to maybe some of the other pieces of lead generation you were doing? Are they higher quality or lower quality? What did you see with someone calling in in the sense of their motivation?

Motivation, I feel like with people on the radio is going to be higher typically than other sources, not always, but it depends on the message that you’re putting out. For a while, I had a message that was like, “I will buy any house in any part of town. Call me.” I would get a lot of people that wanted to sell me their house at retail. We then had a marketing message that was like, “I want to buy the bad houses, the good houses, and the ones that are falling down. If it’s on fire, call me. We’ll buy that one, too.” That brings in a different type of customer.

If you have a good refined message, you are going to get people that are going to respond to that message. My recent ads, the one I’m running now are designed to sell to people that need money quick like within a week. I say, “I buy all types. However, I’m an investor or cash buyer. I’m basically trying to trade convenience for this discount. I’m not paying you the full price.” Those leads that come in are awesome because their motivation is high and they’re willing to sell at a discount. I love that.

That’s an important point. If you remember, when I started advertising on the radio a long time ago, I was advertising for retail leads because I was advertising for my brokerage. You’re right, the ad matters. You can run an ad that’s going to generate retail or you can craft that ad in a way, which is important to generate a discounted property, which is our goal. What you say in the ad matters, which is what I hear you saying and it is what we’ve seen.

Here’s how I like to look at it. Wholesalers provide liquidity to the marketplace. They come in and create a win-win by getting a property sold and getting one bought for them, but they’re willing to pay less for speed. When you put out that message on the radio that you can do that to people, those are going to be the people that are going to call you. It’s super rare that somebody calls me and says, “Will you guys list my house?” “No, we’ll make an offer on it,” but it’s super rare because we’re not making that message clear that, “We’re a brokerage and if we don’t buy it, we’ll help you sell it.” We don’t have that message.

For people reading, tell us about your experience in setting it up. How difficult was it? How heavy of a lift was it to get radio up and going in comparison to some of the other traditional ways out there? What was your experience?

I’m happy that I hired you to help me get it going. That was number one because, honestly, I wouldn’t have done it without guidance. In hindsight, looking back on anything in life, you’re like, “That wasn’t that difficult, but I didn’t know any of those things.” I paid for speed. I’m grateful that I did because you were able to make that process smooth for me. It wasn’t something that I decided I wanted to do and then it was up and running 30 days later. Unfortunately, however I’m sure that’s super possible, but for me, I wanted to let these stations know that I was willing to pay for my advertising at my car or at my rate, which was rock bottom.

I didn’t go in and ask for pricing. I didn’t even ask anybody for pricing. They would counter with their pricing. I played the game with them, but it only took me maybe 2 to 2.5 months. I am ultra-grateful I waited though. I didn’t jump in and pay those prices. Essentially, at this point, I’ve been doing it for fifteen months since 2018. If you look at the number of costs that I got in at versus the ones that I would have paid at retail over that fifteen months, that would have been three months’ worth of ads.

The whole thing about marketing is that if you don’t do it consistently, you’re just throwing money away.

For our audience reading, give us an idea of how much you’re paying for a radio station if you don’t mind. A lot of people go, “Is it affordable? How expensive is going to be?”

Here in St. Louis, it’s pretty competitive in terms of the radio, oddly enough. There are a lot of people that are advertising. We’re not a very huge city. We’re a metropolitan area of about 2.7 million to 3 million, something like that, but we went in and we made our offers and they came back with their prices. We said, “We’ll circle back. We don’t need you guys, but you probably need us in the time that you don’t have these ads.” Both of the stations that I was working with in the beginning had about 500,000 people listening during the time slots that me and you work around. They initially wanted $120 to $150 an ad. I came in around $40. At this point, we’re spending about $3,000 a month on the radio.

That’s for how many stations?

We got two stations.

Two stations, total costs are $3,000 a month.

This is cool. I don’t know if I told you this yet, but we were spending about $15,000 on all of our marketing and the different things that we were doing, which is about 6 or 7 things. Now, that we have that in place, we have cut the total marketing budget in half. That’s huge because we don’t worry about doing it. It’s almost impossible for you to not be consistent whenever you have 1 or 2 ads. You don’t need to overthink this. I’m not trying to complicate the waters by saying you have to have multiple ads. I had literally had one ad run for 7 or 8 months straight and forgot about it.

You automate the process of marketing to where you can’t forget because it’s in a system and it gets played automatically. Whereas I would get all excited about direct mail and send a campaign every 2 or 3 weeks for 2 or 3 months straight. The phones would be blowing up and then I would quit doing it for two months. Having inconsistencies in your marketing is one of the best ways to have a rollercoaster of a business. Nobody wants that. You want to have consistency. Having consistent marketing is the first thing you need to think about. This helps keep the business marketing consistent.

What type of success have you seen with ads? Have you done any deals? That’s what people want to know.

I would like to scale it to anywhere between 6 to 10 a month, but I’m in no hurry. $3,000 a month right now is doing great. We’re getting anywhere between 20 and 25 ads played a week, 2 to 3 a day. With that amount of ads, we’re getting that amount of calls. I’d say we’re probably getting about twenty calls, between both stations a week, so that’s 80 a month. I’d say maybe 3 to 5 deals a month come from that.

For $3,000?

WI 351 | Radio Marketing

Radio Marketing: Wholesalers provide liquidity to the marketplace. They create a win-win by getting the property sold and getting one bought for them. People are willing to pay less for speed.

 

$3,000 for 3 to 5 deals. You’re talking $650 to $1,000 a deal. Again, people are responding to the message that I’m putting out. There are a lot of ways to do that, too. When the message isn’t, “I’m looking for the ultimate person,” it doesn’t come out like that. They’re going to be like, “Are you getting divorced? Have you filed bankruptcy or pre-foreclosure?” Those are going for motivation. When you’re mailing people like a high equity list or maybe even an absentee owner, you’re putting a message in front of them that can help them.

Inherently, the nature of that is you’re going to get a lot of calls that aren’t going to be anything that you can convert. To me, I’d rather not get 100 calls a week and have 2 or 3 good leads. I’d rather get 20 calls a week and have 2 or 3 good leads because people aren’t responding to a message that may not suit their needs.

What you’re saying is true. Direct mail is high call volume, low quality, as an example.

It’s only a 1% response rate.

Radio is the other side of the spectrum. It’s lower call volume and high-quality leads, which means it’s less maintenance at the end of the day.

I couldn’t agree more. We don’t market that we have a brokerage and we do. We don’t market to list people’s properties because it’s more of a pain in the rear end to us than it’s worth, so we don’t do it. We convert probably 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 of the leads that come from radio to get listings because we go out and we make them an offer.

That’s a good offer for us, but it sucks so bad for them for whatever reason that then they’re like, “Paying the 6% commissions is going to be 3 to 4 times more money left on the table than if I were to take this slow offer from the investor.” That’s another great thing. We’re not marketing those things. However, we’re doing them. Our core focus isn’t to do that, but it’s again, a way to convert leads.

As you look back, you’ve been doing this for a few years, what are 1 to 2 things now that you like most about radio? What is it about radio, where you go, “These are a couple of characteristics I appreciate about this channel?”

That’s an easy question for me. If I was to stop all my marketing except for 1 or 2 things, that would be it. I would keep that because again, it provides the level of consistency that I struggle with. I would imagine most people reading this struggle. That’s why you’re reading to learn and fix problems that you’re having. Consistency is the hardest part, not in marketing, but in following up with people and doing all the things that you need to do.

I’m terrible at that. I’m not standing here to say that I’m this awesome wholesaler guy that can get a call and make a deal. No, it’s a volume game. We’re spending money to do a lot of deals, but the marketing message that I put out on the radio, again, I’ve said it’s consistent, that’s number one, but number two, it’s very targeted. I don’t have to worry about changing it. I can play with it, split test it, and do certain things like that, but I can also create 1 or 2 ads, put them out there, and forget about them.

It’s a volume game versus spending money to do a lot of deals, but the marketing message you put out on the radio has to be consistent.

Number one is consistency. Number two is the target of your market. You can also target people differently on different stations, which we didn’t even get into. There’s no right or wrong answer on which stations you use or what time. However, there’s better. Analytics will tell us that there are stations that we should be using in some that we shouldn’t, but it doesn’t mean you’re going to come across that rockstar $100,000 deal on a random station either.

It’s a good point. It’s not a pray and spray method. You can get in and target your demographic by choosing the right genre of music that that person is going to be listening to. If your target audience is over the age of 50 will then you reverse engineer that backs into the fact of, “What are those people going to be listening to?” You can narrow it down.

It’s not like you’re doing this broad stroke approach to seeing what you can get by blasting it out in all different directions. You can niche it which is important. Let me ask the question that is important as well. We’re talking about what you like. Any hurdles in setting up a radio? Anything that was difficult? For someone that’s considering this, they’re going, “I need to get this set up.”

I’ll be honest. If I wouldn’t hire you guys to help me with this, I wouldn’t have it up and running right now because the process isn’t frustrating. That’s the wrong word. In order to do it right, you have to be diligent, and the fact that you have to go in knowing that this is not going to happen overnight. This is going to be a negotiation, but if you can get through that, it’s awesome.

You tremendously helped me with that, but then also the analyzing. I didn’t know necessarily what to do, where to go, and/or how to even talk to these people. Everyone that’s in a different industry is going to have a different terminology or verbiage for things. I had no idea what any of that meant. That was why I wouldn’t have done it. I paid you to help me with the speed aspect of it because all of the how was done already. I can’t thank you guys enough. That’s awesome.

I cut my marketing budget in half and the number of leads and quality of them is the same as it was with the double the market. It’s great. I don’t have to work so hard. I love being able to forget about marketing and focus on income-producing activities. Marketing does not make you money. It’s necessary, but it’s a way of outsourcing. Some people use virtual assistants to help them do those things. When you’re on the radio or any mass media like that, it is done for you. You pay the company for that reason.

We’re going to ramp our station up here probably to $5,000 or $7,000 in the next few months, but for $3,000 a month, and that’s what we’ve been running for about several months. It’s been amazing, even if we were to cut that in half. I remember the first month I started wholesaling, I spent $1,200 on a credit card for marketing and I had $60,000 on that card already. What’s the difference between $60,000 and $62,000? If you don’t have a ton of money, you’re new, and you’re learning this too, you don’t have to have $3,000, $5,000, $20,000, $30,0000 a month. You can do this for probably $800 to $1,000 a month.

$1,000 to 2,000 a month depending on the size of your station. If you’re reading this and you’re going, “I’m trying to figure out what I’m going to do in 2020. I’ve tried this and that. It hasn’t given me the return that I’m looking for. This radio thing sounds interesting.” One of the things David and I have talked about is that it’s a marketing source that everyone knows about, but nobody’s using. There’s hardly anyone advertising on radio.

As we continue to bring in people that we’re coaching to do this. The thing they keep telling me is, “I can’t think of anyone in my city that’s doing radio to find discounted properties because it’s wide open.” If you’re curious and interested in learning more then what we’d love for you to do is book a call, go to WholesalingInc.com/REIRadio, and ask questions.

One of the keys with radio is the fact that we’re doing exclusivity per market. We’re not going to let this thing get saturated like direct mail did, where everybody is on that bandwagon. We want to be able to preserve it long-term. That’s why we’re limiting the number of people that can come into the market all around the country.

WI 351 | Radio Marketing

Radio Marketing: Having inconsistencies in your marketing is one of the best ways to have a rollercoaster of a business, and nobody wants that.

 

It’s wise because we want to preserve. I want to preserve it for me in Dallas. It’s a key piece for you in St. Louis as well. It’s important. David, let me close with this question. People reading are wondering, “Should I do this radio thing? Is this the right fit for me in 2020? What would you tell the audience reading about radio?”

If you’re looking for something that is going to produce better results for the same amount of money that you’re spending an hour or in some cases less and be able to automate it, then that’s going to be the number one thing you should be looking at. To me, it’s a no-brainer because I’m not good at being consistent. They say you should mail people between 4 and 12 times. I was mailing somebody more than 6 or 7 times. I’ve done campaigns before and tested different things. There are always new lists coming out and this new thing. It’s overwhelming.

There are so many choices, but this message is broadcasted everywhere. Everybody can hear it multiple times a day and you start to get that repetition. I have people tell me that when they call me they’ll be like, “I heard your ad 60 times.” I’m like, “It’s been on the radio for a whole year. Who else has sent you 60 postcards?” I don’t think anybody ever has. He’s like, “When I first started hearing, I thought it was funny,” because it has a little catchy line in there. It’s a great ad, but all of a sudden, now he became motivated for whatever reason. Something in his life changed. You can’t beat the consistency and the repetition that it provides.

I totally agree with that. I’ll close with this story. We had a call one time, where a lady called in, she had her two kids in the backseat. She left this voicemail. She’d called in and it was after hours and we didn’t catch it live. She said, “I’m riding in the car with my two kids in the back. I want you to know that they can repeat your ad verbatim. Great job. Keep it up. You’re doing great marketing. Have a great day,” and hung up.

They’re kids in the backseat. Kids don’t listen to the radio. This was a classical station. They’re classical music and doing their own thing, but it was repeating so much over time that her kids could repeat the ad verbatim. You’re not going to get that with direct mail. David, thank you so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me, Chris. I appreciate you. I’m happy you had me on because if you do have any readers or any people in your network that are struggling with consistency, this is the easiest way to solve that problem, truly. I’ll be honest I’m terrible at consistency in most things. Whenever you have to be consistent in marketing to these motivated sellers, answering these calls, running these appointments, following up with these people, and sending offers, there are a lot of things you have to be consistent with. Take some of that off your plate. This is one of them.

David, have a fantastic day. Thank you so much for coming along.

Thanks. I’ll see you next time.

 

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About Chris Arnold

Chris Arnold is a 15-year Real Estate veteran who has closed over 2500 single-family real estate transactions in the DFW metroplex. Chris is the founder of multiple companies that are managed by a US virtual team, which allows Chris to run his organizations while living in Tulum, Mexico full time. His passion for leaders has led to the creation of Multipliers brotherhood which serves the top 5% of real estate entrepreneurs out of the US. Most recently Chris has launched his REI Radio coaching program. This program is designed to teach real estate investors the marketing stream that everyone knows about but NO ONE is doing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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