Posted on: January 28, 2020
WI 350 | Breakthrough In Tough Market

 

Having great conversations with sellers and putting in the work but still can’t get that well-deserved breakthrough? Today’s episode is exactly what you need to hear!

Gabe Dominelli and Jaimie Osborn are two rockstar wholesalers from Wichita, Kansas. While they’re currently running a very successful and profitable wholesaling business (even earning an impressive $104,000 in just a few months at one point), it took them almost 6 months to get the breakthrough they’ve been looking for.

In this episode, Gabe and Jaimie not only shared their wholesaling ups and downs, they also shared how faith, the right mindset, and impeccable work ethic helped them break out of the rut, move forward, and dominate!

If you can use a little motivation to continue with your wholesaling journey until you achieve that much-needed breakthrough, this episode is perfect for you!

RESOURCES:

How To Breakthrough In A Tough Market With Gabe Dominelli and Jaimie Osborn

Episode Transcription

Welcome to the number one show when it comes to getting the exact instruction you need to go out and source the best, biggest, and most fantastic wholesale opportunities in your marketplace. Speaking of your marketplace, some people reading this are in very big and competitive markets. Sometimes it gets a little bit frustrating because you feel like you are working and having great conversations with distressed property owners, but you cannot break through.

I am going to tell you that this is okay. You have got to keep your mindset strong. You have got to stay focused because if you do, you will make a breakthrough. I have got a perfect example when it comes to this from two unbelievable wholesalers that were in Denver, Colorado, and are now in Wichita, Kansas. I want to introduce my friends, Ms. Jaimie Osborn and Mr. Gabe Dominelli.

Hi guys.

Give us some of your backgrounds. You guys decided to move from Denver to Kansas. Tell me what was going on there. Tell me a little bit about your business when you started, and then let’s progress to where it is now because things are getting exciting for the two of you.

In the beginning, we had been wholesaling in Denver for about a year. We were going forward. At the time, we both had full-time jobs, and we were wholesaling and hustling every day. Things are not sticking, but Denver was saturated. It had already had a lot of regentrification. People were not super receptive.

We kept trying, and then long story short, we were so frustrated. We had been going through a lot of programs and trying to learn these different ways and master any way we could. We turned to YouTube of all places. We were like, “We do not know what we are doing.” We went to YouTube, found you, Tom Krohl, and all these amazing people, and joined TTP. I am going to speed that up. We joined TTP, and then we were rocking the TTP course.

We are about three months in, and we did everything before cold call. She was a property manager at the time. I was in outside sales. I worked inside sales for a couple of years. I said, “I can be on the phone all day.” It made sense. I said, “Let’s sign up for TTP and see how this goes.” We went through another program, but it did not work out so well. We signed up for TTP, and it got the ball rolling within three months. Long story short, we were working 40 hours a week in our jobs and probably 30 to 40 hours, at least, together in wholesale. We would have stuff and then fall out.

We were sending letters and putting up bandit signs. This was before TPP. We were preying in every direction.

Once we started with TTP, right before we made the decision to move to Kansas, we said, “Let’s go into a better market.” Her family is there. She knows the area. She has feet on the ground. I believe there was not as much competition where we were in Wichita. We decided to move. The day we moved, we closed on our first deal in Denver.

We pulled into the title office with our U-Haul packed with our very first check.

This is an interesting point. It is going to relate to a lot of people reading who live in bigger markets, especially somewhere like Denver. You got some people and companies with huge marketing budgets to spend more because they are going to push up the values. They are going to do some crazy development or gentrify the area. What happens is there is always going to be somebody that has a bigger marketing budget than you, especially in these areas where the prices are $6 million, $7 million, $8 million, or $9 million for a regular house. There are some unique opportunities in those markets. If you do get a deal, typically, they are bigger.

I like getting deals all the time. I get real itchy if we are not doing a deal every day or every week. I like the action. Even if they are a little bit smaller, I like getting out and stacking a lot of those wins. It sounded like when you went to Kansas, did it feel like the sky opened up, the birds started chirping, and the sun came out, and you guys were rocking and rolling?

Admit and be clear about what you know and don’t know. Don’t pretend to know something you don’t.

We were in Denver. We were meeting up with a lot of different groups. I was sitting down for coffee with a lot of different major players in there because we were doing everything we could to get a deal. It is what it was. When we came here, I visited this place 4 or 5 times. We kept hearing you guys come out here.

I have always been an entrepreneur. I will be honest. It started when I was little. My dad is a real estate investor. He has invested for 30-something years. I have gotten to direct sales on my own stuff and did very well. I wanted something bigger. We were searching. That is how I got into real estate. When we came here a couple of times, they say, “Come to Wichita. You will kill this market.”

I am like, “Whatever.” This is going to help a lot of people out there too. As soon as we moved here, I already had the mindset and the faith that we were going to crush this. Because of that and our work ethic, as soon as we came here within three weeks, we got our first deal here. It has been exploding. We are doing an average of about four deals a month. It is awesome. That mindset helped us.

Do you think, Jaimie, that you knowing or being from there, understanding the values was big? The toughest thing when you go into a new market or somebody is thinking about going into a new market is, “Is this a deal or not a deal?” You do not know. It is not in your backyard. You have to learn. You have to talk to other investors and get an idea, talk to your cash buyers, and get an idea if you have a deal. Did it help you that you already knew?

I wish I could say yes, but I had not lived here for eight years. I was in Denver for eight years. I knew that area, but it had been eight years. It has changed even in a place like Wichita, Kansas. What helped was first admitting and being clear about what I did know and what I did not know and not pretending like I knew something I did not. The second was getting a realtor on our side to pull appropriate comps. Everyone that we talked to, we would have casual conversations.

We would be like, “So-and-so bought a house. Where do they go? Really? That is where everybody wants to move.” It was not interrogating. It was conversing with friends and families. We jumped into meetings because that was our only source of connection. We would stay late and ask about everything and get to know what was going on in the area and where people wanted to go.

It is critical. I love that you mentioned that you put a realtor on your team. That is so huge, so talk about that a little bit. When you approach this real estate agent, what do you say? Do you say, “We are new to this market. We are going to give you some flips. We need some help. We are going to refer you business?” How does it make it so that they are on your team and they are really on your team and work with you? They do not just say, “I will help you out here and there,” but they are committed to you.

We met this realtor off of BiggerPockets.

I started talking to him back in Denver before we were even sure we were moving here.

Did you pick up the phone and call him?

I started calling everybody.

It is funny because I was on the phone with a lady. She has property here, but she called me out and said, “You are from the East Coast. You moved from Denver.” I am like, “What are you talking about?” She is like, “You talked to me in May when we were about to come here.” I started calling up a whole bunch of brokerages. I am seeing if we can get real estate agents on our side if they have pocket listings knowing the area. If we can work, do they work with investors? This guy is a good buddy of ours. He is a younger guy. He is in his mid-twenties, but he is an investor himself. He knows the area very well.

WI 350 | Breakthrough In Tough Market

Breakthrough In Tough Market: When people are not receptive, you just have to keep trying.

 

He would tell us where everybody is looking to flip, what areas are good, what areas are not so good, and what is a good rental area. He was pulling comps on for us on the regular. We do not have any affiliation with him too much other than that. We pay him a commission every single month to pull comps whenever we need them. We pay him a hefty fee every month, and we are going to start using him for some flips that we are going to be doing here in the near future too.

Is it a percentage of what you are earning on it to almost be your acquisition manager or your disposition manager? Is it a commission per, or is it a flat fee that you are paying him for the month?

We are paying a flat fee. Here is why. Kansas is a non-disclosure state. From what we found on the list of non-disclosure states, it is the most non-disclosure place you can be at. We cannot get lists off of ListSource here. It is super tight. For us, we pay a flat fee. Since we need several a week, we pay a flat fee just to pull the comps and the data and shoot it over.

It is worth it because he might see something that you did not even know, and then all of a sudden, it is worth $10,000, $15,000, or $20,000 more than you thought. You get this bigger spread. It happens every single time. If we have a deal in a specific area and we know that there is a realtor that dominates that area, we are reaching out to them every time. A lot of times, they have cash buyers too that are looking to do something in these areas. It is a fantastic relationship to have.

You need to have a good realtor or a whole stable of them on your team to be referring you their deals, bring you cash buyers, and help you comp if you are in a new market or if you are trying to get your feet under you with wholesaling, with understanding valuations. The market is always moving, so you want to make sure that you are on top of it. That is what these people do all day long. That is their job. That is incredible. Because you are a non-disclosure state, who do you guys call day?

With non-disclosure, it is weird. In this market, you can get the tax delinquent list. We can go to the courthouse. When you call people, and they are non-receptive, that list is beat up. We get the tax delinquent list from the courthouse. I also get pre-probates from Tangie Cousins from Foreclosures Daily. Before pre-probates, we also drive for dollars a lot. That is our main list here. That is an awesome list. In Denver, we were driving for dollars all the time. They were always on the list. She said it was pounding my head against a wall sometimes. Here, they are receptive. Also, it is not like they just gained $100,000 in equity in a year. We find a lot of deals. 60% to 70% are from driving for dollars.

Do you guys use an app?

We use DealMachine.

Do you have other people driving for you, or are you guys doing all the driving?

I am doing all the driving. We are going into the Delaware market where I am. We are going to hire. We just set him up. It is my future brother-in-law who has been in sales for years, and he wants to dial for us as well. We set him up on DealMachine as well, but out around here, it is me driving.

How big of a market is it? Are you finding enough properties to keep you guys busy?

There are about 400,000 to 500,000 in the Wichita Metro, so Wichita and its surrounding areas. It is a decent market. With this market, too, I do not know if it is just old school or being in the Midwest. I am not sure. It is the first time I have ever been to the Midwest. When we go to get code violation lists, it is almost impossible to get a code violation list around here. To get pre-foreclosures and other things on Zillow, Redfin, or Realtor.com, they do not disclose that it is in pre-foreclosure. The only way to find out that it was not pre-foreclosure is if we are cold calling like we are, or somebody calls you from a direct mail, or however you are marketing because once it is foreclosed on, it is foreclosed on.

Ask everything and get to know what is going on in the area and where people want to go.

When you see on Zillow foreclosed, the bank has already got it. In order for us to get pre-foreclosures, we do not have that list. I do not get that list. Another list that I do get is we get an inherited list, which we just started on Lead Sherpa. That is an awesome list. The other list that we get is an absentee owner. For absentee owner and inherited, we do a pre-foreclosure, probate, driving for dollars, and tax delinquent. Those are five lists that we hit.

You mentioned a list there that I do not think is talked about a ton on the show. If you are reading this, make sure you go to the Brent Daniels Real Estate YouTube channel, so you can see everybody. Explain to me what pre-probate is.

The pre-probates are before they hit the next level of probate, where things are filed for the heirs that are supposed to divvy it up or what have you. From what I understand, the reason here in Kansas that we have to get a pre-probate instead of the probate is due to the non-disclosure. We do not have the level of access to get that probate information. What we have had to do is those leads on a pre-probate list are fresh. These people may have passed.

We had to develop a different system with that, meaning once we get them in, I will go ahead. We do not do any direct mail. This is the only time we mail, and I print them out at home because it is so few. We print and mail those just so they have them, and then we wait a couple of weeks before we call them. Hopefully, we will get in there and get in front of their eyes, and they have something, but I personally would not recommend it because before, we did not know. I was calling pre-probates, and it was for a few different reasons. Number one, it is sensitive. It is a very recent traumatic event. Also, it is too soon in the process for them to even know what in the world is even going to go on.

Plus, once it hits the courts, now you have got all the time that it takes to get through the court. A lot of people are talking to them and getting in their ear, so you have got to build that relationship early on. With your market having 400,000, 500,000 people, it means you have 100,000, 150,000, or 175,000 houses.

As you are driving around, building up your driving for dollars list, you are going to catch a lot of those other lists as well. You are going to catch some of those people that are in pre-foreclosure, pre-probate, inherited, or vacant houses, multifamily, all of these types of things, through driving or using the DealMachine app. Use TTP as a code, and you get $10 off a month. TTP code for DealMachine, check that out. You have to register online first. Go on your computer. It is not something that you can get at your app store. Check that out. 60% to 70% of your deals are driving for dollars?

Yes, and then the rest are from those lists. We deal with Eric Torrente. We go to FlipThisRealEstateList.com. That is the place that we go where he has that data for Kansas. That is why we go there because his data is good too.

He has got an army of VAs that are up 24 hours a day. I do not know how he does it. Let’s break down a deal. Do you guys have a deal that maybe was challenging, exciting, or the biggest deal? Do you have a deal in mind that we can break down so we can ring this bell?

We can go over the one we did. We closed on it. It was one of the bigger deals that we have had in Kansas. You are talking about pre-probate too. This was off of a pre-probate letter that we called back, and I left messages for. She ended up calling me. I left five messages. It is something that we followed up on. Follow-up is huge. It is 7 or 8 touches before the average deal.

For everybody reading, do not give up after the first call. Keep it going. That is where the magic happens. It does.

I got a callback. This lady’s roommate passed away. How much stuff did she have in that house?

You are talking a full first floor that you squeeze into and a whole bottom, but it was a bi-level house, a whole bottom floor that was packed, floor to ceiling.

WI 350 | Breakthrough In Tough Market

Breakthrough In Tough Market: Get a realtor on your side to pull appropriate comps.

 

She passed away, and deeded the property over to her. That lady was getting Social Security. She could not keep up with payments. She was about four months backdated. This was a probate home. It was also a pre-foreclosure home. She called us up and said, “Can you look at this house? I do not know what to do with it. I got your messages. I am ready to sell.” We went over there that day and looked at the house. The ARV on this house is around $135,000 to $140,000 after fixed up.

Here in Wichita, that sweet spot for a good first-time homeowner is $120,000 to $180,000.

It is about $135,000 to $140,000. When we started talking with her, we told her, “What do you want out of this? What is the perfect scenario of how this would work out? How would you like this to play out?” She just wanted some extra money to go and move on and did not know how much the house was worth.

Is it free and clear?

No, it had a mortgage on it for $55,000 on there. We talk with her for an hour and a half to two hours. We were there. She is a talker. We ended up locking that deal up for $57,000.

The craziest thing about it is it was just timing. You got her at the right time. Now she is finally ready to make a decision. If you are there and you are being proactive, and you are reaching out as often as possible, you know that this is a solid lead. You are going to catch them. You are going to, at least, get your foot in the door to have the opportunity to give them an offer. Now they might want too much. They may want $57,000. You have to be in front of them. You got to be constantly talking to people every single day, leaving messages, and planting the seeds, because those come back to you. They truly do. It was $57,000. What did you guys sell this thing for?

We had an open house. That is how we run things. She does all the disposition. We both do acquisitions sometimes.

He is your expert follow-up. He is a beast at follow-up.

Once it gets locked up, she does dispositions, throws an open house, and does all the marketing and everything for the cash buyers list. We had an open house. We set it out for $69,000, and it sold for $80,000.

A lot of people are wondering, “How the heck do you put it out at $69,000 and gets bid up?” This is the power of having the buyers there at the same time. That is the power of that, “You might not get this deal because look at all these other people.” That is the point of your open houses, and you run that, Jaimie?

I do. It has been a learning process, but now I know we have a pattern and a method that we use. We go ahead and get it under contract, submit it to title, and then one day, I will send out a Mailchimp and post it everywhere. I make sure that in there, people explicitly know, “There is an open house.” We only do an hour, either from 6:00 PM to 7:00 PM. I send it out, and then the next day, I will sit through our buyers list and call them.

It is huge because even if you guys use Mailchimp, you will go through there. You can see your open rate and track all of those KPIs on how people are opening it. The thing is, how many people I have talked to on the phone the next day have opened the email, but then they are like, “I looked at it, but I did not really look at it?” They will start asking you while you are on the phone. They will even go, “Hang on a second. I am going to open it real quick. Do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions?” You build a better relationship with your buyers. For us, sometimes, taking that second day, I will break it up in the morning and then in the evening or go two days back-to-back. It is worth it.

The first offer is not most likely to be the best offer.

I make sure to stick to my guns. I do not take any offers. People do throw out an offer, and I will say, “I appreciate your offer. I am going to keep that in mind. If you want to come out, I strongly encourage you to come out. I would love to meet you, but as I have said, I stay true to my word. This is when we take offers. If you do not come out, I will keep you in mind. If it is the highest and best offer, I will reach out to you.”

Do your buyers not get mad? Do you not have some in the market that is like, “You either going to take this offer or you are not selling me a property.” Did they ever say that?

I have had an attitude. Not me, them, but 9 times out of 10, they are like, “I wonder if it is a test,” or they just have run into that before or want to throw it out. Every once in a while you will get somebody that is like, “What do you mean, you are not going to give it to me?” I am like, “No, I am not.”

The first offer is not most likely to be the best offer. No cash buyer employees.

That is on what the cash buyer said. What do you say to the seller? What do you say to the owner when 30 people show up for an hour? Sometimes I assume they are there. I know that it is always better if it is vacant and you get a lockbox on it.

I try and send them to dinner. Sometimes you will have somebody that wants to hang around, but if so, I say, “Where do you like to go to dinner?” I will bring them a gift card, and we will say, “Do not worry. We will give you a call if everyone is out before. We are going to have a bunch of people come in, inspect, and take a look at the property. It usually takes about an hour, but if they leave soon, I will give you a call, but take your time. If not, I will hang around for fifteen minutes until you get back.” Make it friendly and comfortable, but Gabe also does a key part too.

This is huge. In the beginning, when you lock it up under contract, you have to let them know what to expect. You have to. Why do I know that? We did it before. It can get a little confusing, so I say, “Here is how this is going to go. During our inspection period, I am going to have a couple of my contractors come in. I am going to have an inspector come in. I am going to have a couple of our partners come in and look at the property as well.”

“We want to make sure that it gets done quick and easy for you. We want to do this in one shot to get it over with. I am going to let you know when that is going to be. We are going to set that date. I will let you know within 48 hours when that is going to be, so at that time, you can expect all of us to come over. I am not sure how many people that is going to be yet, but I will prep you and let you know.”

At that point, Gabe will hand the seller over to me. I stay in constant communication, so they feel overly prepped. By that time, I have built a relationship with them. They are not going, “A whole bunch of weirdos and strangers are coming to my house.” They are going to go, “Gabe and Jaimie are coming to my house.” We also do a key part too.

If that person is going to be home and is not going to leave the property for whatever reason, we will both come. One of us will be inside, and the other person will stay outside. Gabe does a great job of prepping the buyers that come up and say, “If you have questions, ask me. Please do not go in. Please do not ask the owner of the property anything. If you have questions, please take a look around and come back out. Ask me, and we will get you taken care of.”

I do not play games like that. If they start talking to the owner, your offer is now void, “If you start talking to my seller and to other people, do your thing. Go in and inspect the property. You do this all the time. Go around, move out, and give me your offer by whatever time we say. That is it. You start talking to the seller and other people, I am not taking your offer.” I let them know that. They should know that.

It is communicating with both the seller and your buyers, “This is what we expect. These are the rules. Are you cool with that? Great. Show up. We would love to see you. If your offer is the best, I am excited to sell it to you guys. I am excited to see what you guys do with this project or property, or you keep it forever or whatever it is. It is a smoking deal. I am excited for you guys. I will see you tomorrow.”

WI 350 | Breakthrough In Tough Market

Breakthrough In Tough Market: Follow-up is huge. It takes seven or eight touches before the average deal.

 

It goes back to that certainty and kindness. If you have kindness and certainty in your voice and the tone of your voice, you can communicate effectively with most people. It is being real respectful, especially the seller explaining to them what is going on, over-communicating 100%, and people are fine.

People think too much. We hallucinate too much in this business about what is the worst they can do or what fires you have to put out. You can navigate the waters a lot cleaner if you are communicating every day, every other day, setting expectations, and making it smooth for the buyer and the seller. That is our job. That is what we do. We source opportunities and make it as smooth as possible for it to get done and for everybody to be happy. That is phenomenal.

Wrapping this thing up, give some advice to people that maybe are in their first six months. They have not done a deal. They are working hard. They are trying to break through. They have these sales backgrounds, and they are like, “Why is not this working in this industry?” Give people some encouragement.

I am going to brag on him because he is the follow-up key. He is the one that is on the dialer, but here is what I noticed. By the time we go to my first interaction with the seller is when I will show up on acquisitions with him for whatever reason he might want me to be there. He will always ask, “Have any other investors looked at this or anything?” They often say, “I have talked to a couple of people, but you guys were the first people I let in my house. Here is why.” Gabe has followed up, called, and said, “I know you were sick last week. How are you feeling?”

They talked to him over and over again. He has built such a strong relationship on so many different levels that by the time we show up there, he has got to fill me in on all the stuff that they have talked about. What I would say to somebody that is struggling, has been kicking butt, and doing great in their own field, is do not expect a deal to come from contacting them 1, 2, 3, or even 4 times. Dig into that 5th or 6th time if you need to, because, like Gabe said, that is where our deals are coming from.

What I would give to people who are first starting out is you need to learn before you earn. You need to get in. Not only that. Do not overlearn and overanalyze stuff. You need to act. Nothing gets done. You will learn after you act. You will learn more doing than you will be sitting on YouTube, reading books, or listening to another podcast. The number one thing is you have to have an entrepreneurship mentality. You can do all these steps. You can do everything they are teaching you from this program or from whatever else you are watching on YouTube or in any books. You can do it with an employee mentality, and it will not work for you.

You can do the same steps and things as an entrepreneur and entrepreneurship mentality, and it will work for you because you are not expecting. This business is not linear. It is exponential. You will be doing stuff. It took us almost six months to get our first deal from the program working with TTP. If you are expecting you to deal in a month, you are like, “There is nothing happening,” the people are seeing success now. It is not what we are doing now. It is what we did a year and a half ago and ended those roots. Now you are just seeing the fruit from it.

Now you are closing a deal every week. I love what you said there, Gabe, because it is the truth. Take action and have results. That is your education. Stop this whole thought of getting educated in this. That is the whole point of it. It is incredible. You guys are the best. This is so exciting. Thank you guys for being on the show. You guys were phenomenal. It is going to speak to a lot of people that are turning, trying, working, and doing it. You are right. You got to keep it up. You got to keep it going. You have got to keep your faith. You got to keep your mindset strong.

You have got to cross that bridge from belief to fact. It is the Law of Cause and Effect. You are putting all that cause, and you are having all these conversations. You are doing all the right things, and then all of a sudden, it starts breaking through. I’m glad to finally get you guys on the show. It was wonderful. Thank you, guys.

For anybody out there reading, if you are interested in joining the most proactive group in real estate investing, it is the TTP family. Go to WholesalingInc.com/TTP. Check out what the program is about. Check out all the testimonials. If it feels good in your gut, sign up for a call. We would love to work with you personally. That is the show. You guys are amazing. I encourage everybody reading, every single time, to go out and talk to people. Love you guys. See you.

 

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About Brent Daniels

Brent Daniels is a multi-million dollar wholesaler in Phoenix, Arizona… and the creator of “Talk To People” — a simple, low-cost, and incredibly effective telephone marketing program…

Also known as “TTP”… it helps wholesalers do more, bigger, and more profitable deals by replacing traditional paid advertising (postcards, yellow letters, bandit signs, and PPC) with being proactive and taking action every single day!

Brent has personally coached over 1,000 wholesalers enrolled in his “Cold Calling Mastery” training, and helped 10,000’s of others who listen to him host the Wholesaling Inc. podcast, watch his YouTube channel, and attend his live events…

A natural leader, Brent combines his passion for helping others with his high energy, and “don’t-wait-around-for-business” attitude to help you CRUSH your wholesaling goals as quickly and easily as possible!

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