To say wholesaling is a highly lucrative business is an understatement. If truth be told, many wholesalers have made so much more on a single deal compared to people who work 9 – 5 jobs. And the wholesaling story of today’s dynamic duo is a testament to this.
Bryan Martineau and Clay Rockwood are two rockstar rhinos currently running a thriving wholesaling business. Just like most wholesalers, their business didn’t explode right away.
However, their willingness to take massive imperfect actions has made a world of difference. After discovering TTP, working with the right mentor, and employing the best people, they were able to close 2 deals worth a whopping $214,000!
If you and a partner would like to give wholesaling a try, you can’t afford to miss today’s episode. With all the wholesaling tips and wisdom you’ll learn, it will only be a matter of time until you become wholesaling’s next dynamic duo!
- Brent Daniels on Youtube
- BiggerPockets Podcast 176: How to Close 100+ Deals In Your First 18 Months with Tom Krol
- The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber
- Wholesaling Inc – TTP
- Call Motivated Sellers
- Lead Sherpa
- Mojo Dialer
- Batch Skip Tracing
- Utah House Buyers
- Email Address: email@example.com
Wholesaling Dynamic Duo Does 6-Figure Deals With Bryan Martineau And Clay Rockwood
If you’re reading this for the first time, welcome to the number one show when it comes to learning the instruction on how to do a real estate wholesale deal. This episode is going to be bananas because we are going to be talking about one of my absolute favorite subjects of all time. That is doing massive deals. I encourage everybody. You can check out this interview in video form on the YouTube channel Brent Daniels – Real Estate. Check that out.
I’ve been talking about getting a deal that is $50,000 minimum. It’s a massive deal. It’s something that will change your brain chemistry forever. There are things that will change the trajectory of your business forever. I’ve got two guys that I’m going to interview on this show. They’re not even doing $50,000 deals. They’re doing six-figure-plus deals. This is going to be such a treat for everybody reading. It’s going to be a treat for me to do this interview. Without further ado, I want to introduce from Utah House Buyers, the name of their company, Clay Rockwood and Bryan Martineau.
Thanks for having us. How’s it going, Brent?
I am doing excellent. I’m excited you are on here because you blew away the Private TTP Facebook group when you posted about the two deals you have closed. We will get to that but let’s set the stage for everybody and let everybody know who you are. We have an unbelievable amount of successful professionals that are coming out of Salt Lake. You are up there at the top. I want to break down how you work and how you found wholesaling. If you would, can you take me back to the beginning? How did you find real estate? How did you find wholesaling as your source for finding all these awesome deals that you’re doing?
I got into real estate years ago. I started as an agent. A few years after that, I started flipping homes. It’s the same trajectory that 90% of people go on. I was sick of paying a wholesaler to find deals for me. I thought, “I want to look into wholesaling myself as far as finding deals.” That’s what I was primarily focused on. I was trying to find deals that I could flip. I started seeing, “I can make way more money, way less risk, and less stress by wholesaling than I can by flipping.” That’s when I looked into Wholesaling Inc. and found it. I knew Cody was local here in my market. I started looking into him a little bit, and I was like, “If this guy can do it, anyone can do it.”
He will confess to that as well.
I signed up for the program. That’s where I met Bryan. It was the first time that they did it here in Salt Lake. I happened to sit by him. I’ll let Ryan speak about how he got into it.
I started pretty much at the end of 2016. I acquired my real estate license here in Utah. I quickly realized that it was not the avenue I wanted to pursue, representing buyers and people who wanted to sell their properties. It was a podcast that I listened to with Tom Krol where he was on BiggerPockets. He mentioned this term called wholesaling, where you could sell a contract before you ever purchased the property. That got the wheels turning.
I was successful at that time. I had done 3 or 4 transactions within a matter of a few months of representing people traditionally. At that point, I was like, “This sucks. I don’t like it.” I thought, “If Tom Krol could do it, I could do it.” I decided to take the leap and signed up for the course. A few months later, they had the Salt Lake Summit here with the Wholesaling Inc tribe. That’s where Clay and I randomly sat by each other. We felt like we should go out to lunch. We started from there.
It’s pretty incredible. This show brought me to Wholesaling Inc. In February of 2016, I did the same for you, whether it’s this show or Tom’s that he did on BiggerPockets. It’s a phenomenal way. This show is a great magnet to pull in the best people out there. If you’re reading this and thinking about it, you are that person. Let’s talk about the way.
The way that a lot of partnerships are structured in my experience is like, “Brian, you go find the deals, and I’m going to do the deals.” How does it work between you? Let’s go back to before you were rolling with the income and when you were just building this thing up. Did one of you have the role of acquisition, and the other one was disposition? How did you work? Let’s start there, and then I’ll ask further questions.
Understand where your strengths and weaknesses are and capitalize on and fill the holes for people that are better than you at those things.
I’ll back up to that. When we first met, we soon realized we each had something to bring to the table. That’s what was important for us in our partnership. Bryan had a lot of free time. I was still wrapped up in my real estate business and flipping business. I had resources, but I didn’t have the time to work all the leads. Bryan was like, “I have all the time in the world. I’m gung ho. I signed up for this.”
That’s when we realized that I could be the funding source initially for the business, and then Bryan could work all the leads. That’s how we set it up initially. He would do the acquisitions and work leads. I had a network of investors and cash buyers I had worked with over the years. That’s where we started. I was doing mostly dispositions, and he was doing acquisitions.
To piggyback on what you were saying, initially, we realized that we didn’t know everything. This is a new niche within the market. We both quickly realized that we didn’t know everything, but we were going to figure it out as we went. We started to realize what hats needed to be worn. Early on, we realized this isn’t something where he’s going to forever do dispositions, and I’m going to forever do acquisitions. I read the book called The E-Myth. It’s a great book on not working in your company but working on your company.
From the very beginning, we established those ground rules, “This isn’t going to be something where we’re going to be working in the business. Let’s try and grow this by working on the business.” That was something that we quickly established in the beginning. We followed exactly the principles within the book, “Write down what are all the responsibilities in every single role within that business and then start to fill those roles with employees.”
This is after income was rolling in. People talk about working on the business. Don’t work on the business until your business is making money. I get it. You want to have ideas and set up all these things, but number one, this thing has to survive.
We never went in because this is a concept that a lot of new wholesalers fault in. They think, “I’m busy. I must be doing something right.” They never get past the hurdles of growing their business because they have that mindset of the technician, “I feel like I’m doing a lot of good. I’m working. I’m busy,” but they’re not working on their business. I wanted to clear that up. From the beginning, we realized that we wanted to make this a growing business, “Let’s figure out what are the roles and responsibilities and then grow from there.”
I have the analogy that when you start in this business, you’re a highly paid professional. You’re like LeBron James. As you start working on your business, now you’re the owner of the Lakers. There’s a big difference between LeBron James and the owner of the Lakers. LeBron puts in all the work, scores all the points, and does everything on the court, but the owner of the business is getting the lion’s share of the profits in that deal. There’s a big difference there.
Some people want to stay as LeBron James and be a highly paid professional for their whole career. That’s fine if you have that self-awareness, but not if you want something that’s going to be a servant to you and the business to be serving you to be able to have that flexibility of schedule and not always feel like something is on your shoulders. You felt that when you were being a real estate agent.
It always felt like you had a new boss. You always had that overall lurking responsibility that somebody could call at any time, and you would have to jump when they did. You set it up so that you were already like, “We’ve got roles and responsibilities. We need to make sure that we’re making money, but we know as soon as we get to this point, we’re going to start hiring great talent to be able to replace ourselves.”
An important aspect to recognize on that even if you’re a new wholesaler, a one-man show, is understanding what your weaknesses are. Before Bryan and I were ever part of that, I was doing some of my marketing mailers and responding to calls. I realized I didn’t enjoy that. I can do it, but I don’t enjoy it. I quickly realized, “If I can find someone better than me at this and pay them to do it, then my business is going to explode.” It did. It’s understanding where your strengths and weaknesses are and capitalizing on and filling the holes for people who are better than you at those things. That’s what catapulted us.
What were you doing to find your initial deals? What methods were you using? Were you doing broad marketing, going after specific lists with some direct marketing, or calling people? Tell me. What were you doing in 2016 and 2017?
We started in August of 2017. We simply started with mailers. It’s the Wholesaling Inc model with Tom Krol. We chose those lists that he suggested. I don’t know if those lists would work anymore in this market because it has become saturated. We started with those lists exactly how he said and followed the instructions on what you are instructed. It was about month 3 or 4 when we signed up for your TTP Program. That’s when things started to change.
That’s right, even though Clay here doesn’t like talking to people.
The ironic thing is that I’m probably the only person in your program that has never made a cold call.
Talk about that.
That goes back to what I was saying before. I recognized that was my weakness. We saw your success in cold calling. I first saw you at the Salt Lake Summit. Your team was crushing it in cold calling. We were like, “We should give this a shot and an honest try. We will invest in it and do the whole program.” We have joined your program. TTP has blown out of the water any other marketing source that we have ever done.
I was running some numbers. Here’s our ROI or Return on Investment for TTP. Let’s start with mail. Our ROI on our mailings in 2019 is about 17%, which is okay. That’s a good return in the stock market. Our return on our TTP is about 1,200%. I don’t even know why we’re still doing direct mail. We cut that off completely. We’re focused entirely on cold calling.
That’s the thing. In Salt Lake, there has been a progression where direct mail has been tough, especially if you’re doing a big volume and you have those big goals. You could do a couple of deals here and there, get your feet wet, and get going with direct mail or any marketing that’s direct to that, pay-per-click, or something like that, but when you’re going direct to specific distressed property owners, you are going to win in these tougher markets. That’s the only thing that I do here in Phoenix. The only thing I do is TTP calls and text blasting. That’s it. There’s no way I was getting a negative return on investment from my direct mail. That’s real here. I was sending out $30,000 to $50,000 a month. It’s different if you’re in a bigger market. It truly is.
When we started, we were right at the end when you could capitalize and do well with mailers in 2017 because Cody Hofhine is here in Salt Lake. I can’t tell you how many people he has recruited to join the program. I don’t even know the number, but there’s a lot. All of them try mailers and don’t succeed. They try it and find that it’s much more difficult and saturated than other markets. Usually, they will join TTP programs.
It’s both sides there. I get it. Who makes your calls then? If you’ve never made a call, who makes your calls for you?
When we started with the program, we didn’t want to do the calls. We were focused on growing the business at that time. From the beginning, we initially started by doing some in-house people. We hired two cold callers, brought them in, and trained them according to your program. They brought us a couple of deals right off the bat. Since then, we have gone through different cold callers. We hired Costa Rica callers. We have 4 or 5 from Costa Rica. We did also have a local person here that’s good. We have six callers.
It was in 2017, in April-ish, that we had the Wholesaling Inc Summit. That’s when I first started working with Call Motivated Sellers. That’s the company’s name in Costa Rica. I’ve had them ever since. I tried to do a little bit of in-house callers. It went okay, but the turnover was high. I was getting way more production out of the Americans living in Costa Rica. If anybody is reading this, it’s not just native Costa Ricans making calls. These are expatriates or Americans living in Costa Rica making these calls. You have four as well. I have four.
When we start out in this wholesale business, deal or no deal is the toughest question. The second part is how big of a deal it is.
We have five.
We hired a new one and then a local person.
The beautiful thing is you let me go through all the tough parts in training all of them in Costa Rica and getting them going. The training there is unbelievable. They’re ready to go.
I sent you a weekly report. It’s great.
The leads come in. Who takes care of them?
Once the cold callers qualify a lead, they will send it over. We use Podio. It’s our CRM. It integrates with investors to use and all that. It goes through our VA, who then inputs it into Podio. That’s the process. It goes to our VA and then right to our acquisition managers. We have two acquisition managers. We hired two more. We will have four acquisition managers. They take the calls and go from there.
How do you keep them fed? Are you getting that many leads?
Our marketing channels are cold calling. We’re still doing a little bit of direct mail to very niche lists, code violations, and things like that. We also do text blasting, which has been big for us, as I’m sure you’re aware. Those are our three. We do some pay-per-click as well. For the text blasting, you usually use Lead Sherpa as well, Brent. That was the most recent marketing channel that we started. That has overwhelmed our two acquisition managers.
It’s crazy. We have already got three deals under contract. These are new leads that are coming in. It has exploded our business. It’s going to be good. Our two acquisition managers texted us and said, “We’re overwhelmed. Either hire somebody new, or you take some of the leads or stop.” There’s a need for it now. That’s why we felt the need to hire two more.
Here’s a little tip between us guys. Get every piece of vacant land you can in town, around town, and in the little bubble 30 minutes or 45 minutes from downtown and start text blasting those people and calling them. It’s ridiculous. Do small lists because the response on them is crazy. Your people are like, “Everybody is saying yes.” They’ve got to keep texting and getting them on the phone. You want to keep them busy and get some smoking deals nobody’s messing with.
We will keep you updated on that.
Let’s talk about this because I introduced you as doing massive deals. I’m going to do the total here. These are between two deals. These guys did two cold-call deals for a combined income of $214,295.72. That’s two deals there over $100,000. There’s one for $102,000 and one for $112,000. Would you break that down for us so that we could get everybody inspired? This is real life. People are doing six-figure deals. It changes everything financially for you. Please tell me what happened here and how you made such a big profit on not 1 but 2 deals.
I’ll talk about one and then let Bryan talk about the other. The list that we’ve got this one from is a tax delinquent list. It was on two different lists. It’s also on Tom’s list. That was a list that came out a while back that we were working on. This lead was a guy that owned it. One of our cold callers called him out of the blue. He lived out of the country. He lived in the Virgin Islands and inherited this property from his grandpa, his dad, and things like this. He had it as a rental and didn’t want it anymore.
The ironic thing was he wanted to get an appraisal on the property. Our acquisition manager works through that with him. The guy ended up getting an appraisal on this property. It’s a house with another house behind it. The front house had a mother-in-law partner as well. It was almost three units, all separately metered as well. He didn’t know if it was a legal triplex or whatever it was. He was just like, “I’ve owned this forever. It has been in the family.”
He got an appraisal on it. The appraiser called it a single-family home, which worked in our favor because he got it appraised. It appraised for about $270,000. We were able to get them under contract for $220,000. An interesting thing here to point out is even if somebody gets an appraisal, it doesn’t mean that’s the price that they’re going to take, or that’s not the rock bottom price.
Our particular acquisition guy is good at getting rock bottom prices. He was able to get $50,000 under the appraised price. We knew, or at least we hoped, that this would be a legal triplex. We did a little research even before closing on it, called the city, and said, “Is this a legal triplex? What is it classified as? What’s the process of converting this to a triplex?”
We did a lot of upfront work on this deal before we decided to move forward with it. We ended up purchasing it ourselves because we knew there was such a big spread. Once we closed on it, we used hard money to close the property and listed it on the MLS. We didn’t do anything. We just changed the locks, and that’s about it. We put it on the MLS and sold it a few days later for $350,000. After all the hard money costs and everything, we netted over $112,000 on this.
This came from a tax delinquent list. Where did you get your tax delinquent list?
It’s in the county records.
If you’re reading this and you’re not in Utah, some counties will give you the records. Typically, you have to go to the treasurer’s office. Is that the same with you? Did you get it from the treasurer’s office?
For most counties, you can access all that online.
The Tom Krol list was from older bad credit.
There is great power in a good partnership. And key team members can take your business off to places that you never thought possible.
It came from a company. I don’t even know what the criteria were that they pulled. Maybe it’s the credit or something like that.
What did you make on it? What was the total again?
Bryan, do you want to tell us another six-figure deal you did while we’re at it?
Let’s talk about another one and choose one randomly. This was a deal up in Ogden, Utah. It came from our notice of default list, which we also mail to. This one came from one of our cold callers. We have this list updated daily by a virtual assistant. They pump the phone numbers into the Mojo Dialer system. We had a cold caller that called them. Sometimes it’s the 3 of them for the day or 30. I don’t know the logistics of how they come through, but somehow we’re able to call them.
This was a notice of default list. Our cold caller, who’s great with the notes, put a lot of detailed notes about it and sent it over. Our acquisition guy ended up getting it under contract for $181,155. It seemed like a decent deal at the time, “We were going to make something on this.” This is another triplex. We ended up blasting that to our cash buyers list.
The highest offer that came in was at $220,000. We would have made $38,045 or something like that. We ended up deciding to assign it to him. He ended up backing out after he deposited his earnest money. It was okay with us. After we assigned it to him, we were hoping that it wasn’t going to work out. We realized we were leaving a lot of money on the table.
He backed out. Were nice and gave his $5,000 nonrefundable back to him. We ended up closing on the property. We put paint and carpet into it and put it back up on the MLS. Although we put it for $290,000, it got bid up to $310,000. This was from someone that was unrepresented. There were no commissions involved as well. After all expenses and holding costs, we made $102,225.
The thing that I liked about this deal was we weighed the options before we closed on the property. I know that a lot of people were like, “You put time and energy into it. Sometimes it’s easier to assign a property and get paid.” If you think about that spread from $38,000 to $102,000, to put paint and carpet into a property and then put it back up on the MLS, you weigh the options, and it’s worth it.
It’s interesting that you are bringing this up because there are other options besides wholesaling. If you don’t have the financial means, if you don’t want to get hard money, if you feel like that’s a little bit too risky, and if you don’t feel like you understand the market as well as these two guys and understand that there’s more juice to squeeze there, I get it. Wholesale until you build up that experience level to where you know a deal. When we start in this business, deal or no deal is the toughest question. The second part is how big of a deal it is. It’s that experience part.
It also boils down to your time and energy because we wouldn’t want to be flipping twenty properties at once because your time and energy are spent. You’re not focused on the wholesaling part of your business. You’re probably losing out on deals because your energy and time are spent on other things. It comes down to what you want to do. Do you want to spend all of your time and energy rehabbing 5, 6, and 7 properties at a time? Do you want to build a team that’s scalable with wholesaling and have it automated?
That is something to point out. As a newbie, we weren’t doing this and closing on all the properties. We were simply wholesaling until we were able to build up, do more deals, and get enough money in the bank where we felt comfortable. We had the infrastructure of our team to say, “Let’s cherry-pick these deals that we think we can make a lot more money by closing.” You work after that.
It’s also interesting, especially if you’ve got some people starting in Salt Lake. I would assume that somebody who didn’t have the experience but thought there might be potential could reach out to you and say, “I’ve got this deal. Can you help me look at it?” Whether it’s a profit split or something worth your time and attention, they’re going to get more than if they simply wholesale it to somebody who then wholesales it to somebody. We all see the daisy chain where people are starting. People can come to you as a resource because you know how to see the extra values in these deals.
To anybody in the Utah market, we’re very open to partnering with people. Brent, I wanted to point out that we do have a monthly lunch every last Wednesday of every month. We host a lunch at Red Iguana. It’s a Mexican restaurant. We give you free food. We simply are trying to give back to the community and see if anybody is struggling with deals. They want to partner up with us on them. It’s the last Wednesday at noon at Red Iguana. Reach out to us. It’s a great way to network and find people you can partner with.
How do people get ahold of you? What’s the preferred method to get ahold of you if they can’t make that meeting but have something and want to network with you?
If you can, seriously make it to Red Iguana on the last Wednesday of every month.
We’re going over how to get offers accepted on the MLS straight up with no gimmicks. We’re not trying to sell any programs or anything like that. We’re just trying to get back to the investment community because, honestly, when we first started, it would have been beneficial for someone to have said, “I’ve got a huge cash buyers list. You are new. Why don’t we cart around a deal and see if we can make some more money?” I would have loved that. I’m pretty sure we would have done it.
Is there any last advice that you would give anybody? Let’s not go, “Go out and take action.” Give me some great advice as to what you have found to be successful in building a solid team for a solid company.
First of all, read the book The E-Myth. That catapulted our business to the next level. Some people are okay being the technician within their company and making all the phone calls, but eventually, I guarantee you that you’re going to get burnt out at some point. Learn from the beginning that you want to scale and have a company working for you. Learn to start working on your business, get that mindset of working on your business and not in your business, and write down all of the responsibilities of every role within your business so you can start offloading those to new people.
Not everyone has this, but there is great power in a good partnership. It plays into what Bryan was saying. It’s recognizing your weaknesses and filling those holes with people that are better than you at those things. For a new investor or wholesaler, that’s not going to be like, “On day one, I can’t even hire an acquisition manager.” The sooner you can do that, the sooner your business is going to explode. Key partnerships and key team members have taken this business off to places we never thought possible.
It’s great stuff. I appreciate it. Bryan and Clay, you are amazing. This is awesome. CallMotivatedSellers.com is the company that can hook you up with amazing cold callers. Lead Sherpa doesn’t have a lot of capacity, but you can check to see if they’re available in your market. Use the TTP code and get it cheaper. If you’re going to text, I highly suggest you have large amounts of addresses skip traced. You need a lot of data and phone numbers to keep things busy. You can get that at BatchSkipTracing.com. Check that out.
If you’re interested in joining the most proactive group in real estate investing with these fantastic guys and me, go to WholesalingInc.com/TTP, scroll down, and check out the testimonials and what the program is about. It feels good in your gut, sign up for a call. I would love to work with you personally. You are the best. I appreciate it. Everybody out there reading, I encourage you, as always, to talk to people. Until next time. I’ll see you.
- Brent Daniels – Real Estate – YouTube
- The E-Myth
- Call Motivated Sellers
- Lead Sherpa
- Mojo Dialer
- Red Iguana
- Bryan Martineau – Facebook
- Facebook – Clay Rockwood
- Be sure to join the Wholesaling Inc Facebook group
About Brent Daniels
Brent Daniels is a multi-million dollar wholesaler in Phoenix, Arizona… and the creator of “Talk To People” — a simple, low-cost, and incredibly effective telephone marketing program…
Also known as “TTP”… it helps wholesalers do more, bigger, and more profitable deals by replacing traditional paid advertising (postcards, yellow letters, bandit signs, and PPC) with being proactive and taking action every single day!
Brent has personally coached over 1,000 wholesalers enrolled in his “Cold Calling Mastery” training, and helped 10,000’s of others who listen to him host the Wholesaling Inc. podcast, watch his YouTube channel, and attend his live events…
A natural leader, Brent combines his passion for helping others with his high energy, and “don’t-wait-around-for-business” attitude to help you CRUSH your wholesaling goals as quickly and easily as possible!