We’re doing something a little different in this episode: highlighting the underappreciated value of bringing kindness to your community. If you bring kindness to every interaction you have during a transaction, people will bring kindness back to you, and it will go so much smoother.
Adam and Luke Swomley have had some mixed experiences in the real estate space, but they found a lot of success with Wholesaling – and they credit kindness for that success.
Sell Them With Kindness
After Adam and Luke’s business first started taking off, they hired an acquisitions manager. Unfortunately, their business actually started losing steam, and things started to get a little adversarial.
The culture of the business changed, and they didn’t generate any revenue for seven months.
Then they talked with Brent and Tom, and they essentially restarted their Wholesaling business in the Summer of 2017.
As they started re-building the business, they focused on only hiring people that fit the culture: kind, caring, and outgoing enough to talk to strangers. They dig a little deeper, too, and try to identify people who want to do more than just make money, can be trained easily, and are promotable in the future.
As a final filter, they trust their gut, and if anyone doesn’t trust the potential hire they don’t do it.
Now their business is better than ever, they have numerous (very kind) hires all around the country, and their pipeline is full.
- Scientific Advertising by Claude C. Hopkins
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Brent Daniels: I am super, super excited this morning. This is Brent Daniels, I am in Phoenix, Arizona, but I’ve got a couple outstanding guests with me on this podcast today. So, tune in, get ready, strap in, it’s going to be an absolute phenomenal podcast, something a lot different than you’re used to. And what I really want to start this podcast off with is a word and a philosophy and a concept all wrapped up into one. And I think it’s something that is getting ignored in our industry, or maybe it’s just not talked about enough. Which is the value of bringing kindness to the community. This is being kind in your conversations with people, with motivated sellers, with your buyers, with everybody in the transaction, whether it be a title in escrow or whether it be a closing attorney or whether it be somebody that’s providing private funds to get the deal done. It is, bringing kindness on every single interaction that you have in the transaction makes them so much smoother.
If you bring kindness, people will bring kindness back to you. And I wanted to bring on two gentlemen out of Pennsylvania that really, really define that. I think that once you hear them and once they have the ability, the opportunity to speak to you on this podcast, you’re really going to understand what I’m talking about. But I’d like to welcome Luke and Adam Swomley. Say hello, guys.
Adam: Hey. Thank you for having us, Brent.
Luke: Thanks for having us.
Brent Daniels: Absolutely. So tell us, give us a little bit about where you’re at, what’s your market, what’s your market size, what’s your team size, what’s your experience? Just give us all the goodies.
Luke: Okay, so I’m going to let Adam actually start this for where our company started. That way we can give you a little bit of history and then show you where we’ve gone.
Adam: So my dad and I, we took our first real estate investing course in 2009. And we bought a couple properties, they were supposed to be fix and flip, but it was right when the market was changing. So, we ended up having to hold onto them and rent them out, because we were in them a little high. So, we couldn’t find a good property management company. We ended up starting our own.
Luke: It’s funny, Adam says that, but it was because Adam was renting one of the properties from him and my parents as a partial owner of it, and the property manager actually tried to evict Adam from his own property [crosstalk 00:03:21].
Brent Daniels: Oh, jeez.
Adam: [crosstalk 00:03:23] late on our rent, and we had paid our rent, I think, the first. So needless to say, there wasn’t a good provider in the market, we set up our own, we had probably about 50 or so properties. Not a ton, but we had enough that we were managing. And after a few years, this was before all the craze of the e-meth and systems and everything, our systems were just not adequate at that point to be able to scale it any further than that. So, we sold it, and for a couple years we didn’t really do too much except for hold onto our portfolio. And then, I think it was maybe June of 2014, Luke had told me that he wanted to get more active in this, and so we took another course. I’m not going to mention who it was, but it was pretty high priced. And-
Luke: It had good information, it just wasn’t what we ended up looking to do. As we got more into it, we realized we wanted to just wholesale properties.
Adam: And so we found Tom, and I think it was probably, was it February of 2016?
Adam: That we started with, I guess it was Wholesaling, Inc. at that point. And we started doing the postcards and everything, and we started to have a decent amount of success. We had a bunch of months where we were doing… for two kids, doing 20,000 a month, and then eventually we got to 40,000 a month. We got to the point of bringing on an acquisition’s manager, and this is, I guess, like what you were saying on the intro. What we found to be so key after the fact, but the acquisition manager project ended up failing. And when Luke and I reflect on it, I think it was that one that you wanted us to focus on in this podcast was, what was missing? The kindness was missing. And it was like an adversarial, and everything just became adversarial in our business, whereas Luke and I are happy-go-lucky kind of people.
Luke: We at least try to be.
Brent Daniels: Sure.
Adam: Pretty low-key. I don’t know, anyone that’s worked with us says it’s easy to work with us usually. And we ended up not becoming like that. We ended up basically allowing our culture to completely change, and losing control of our entire business, it spiraled out of control.
Luke: So, last August, September, and October we were doing 40,000 per month, and then we hit a dry spell and didn’t do a deal for three months, but didn’t have any real revenue for almost seven months.
Adam: And I think that’s about the time when we reached out to you, [crosstalk 00:05:49] we saw that you had something interesting going on, and Luke and I were basically at the point where we had the desperation of drowning people, where it’s like one last push or we’re going under. And we reached out to Brent. It was odd, because at that point in the business we were, like I said, everything had become adversarial. Luke and I weren’t getting along at all, which isn’t normal. We’re best friends.
Luke: And we have been for 25 years.
Adam: So, everything was like a fight. Around it, we talked with Tom, maybe about a month after we started doing your system we had talked with Tom, and he said this person, at least in what you’re trying to do, is not helping you get there. You’ve got to let him go.
Luke: And we weren’t helping him either, because he wasn’t loving what he was doing, and so it was hurting him too. And so we made the decision to mutually split. And I think it was a good decision for everybody, because it kind of freed up his future and it freed up Adam and I to get back to our roots and, like you said, just focus on the things that were important to us.
Adam: What had originally gotten us some success, and so then Luke and I basically went out, I think he gave us about one day notice, and it was, Luke said, “This is a blessing, let’s take this time, actually build the business up the way we first saw it, being able to provide a lot of service to everybody.” Because it was something that we had really prided ourselves on, was getting good deals for our buyers, getting fast service for our sellers.
Luke: So, basically being three years into running a wholesaling business, this June we basically got to start over.
Brent Daniels: Awesome, got it. It’s tough, right? I mean, in that, I say awesome in the sense that it seems like you’re starting over from, one, the experience that you’ve already had being able to actually do the transaction and get the deals. You have your buyer base, but also you get to redesign it the way that you guys really, really, truly wanted to. Which is incredible.
Luke: And in that respect it was truly a blessing, because like, we got like you said, we basically had three years’ experience wholesaling, and we knew exactly how it should work. But you know sometimes as you grow, things morph into a way that you wouldn’t have had it go. And it works in that way, but you think to yourself at night as you’re falling asleep, “If I could redo this from the beginning, I would make it more streamlined.” And so that’s what we had the opportunity to do. In July, end of June, we started bringing on a couple people as phone prospectors, and at this point we’re up to having four seller phone prospectors. We don’t call them acquisition manager any more. We have one equivalent of an acquisition manager, we’re still trying to figure out the name for him. Tentatively it’s a lead manager. And what I think we’re going to talk about later with you is, we actually have two buyer prospectors as well.
Adam: And the reason why we needed this was, when Luke and I started again in July, we actually decided that we really hated, for the most part, where we live.
Luke: And it’s no disrespect to where we’re from. It was a great place to grow up and everything.
Adam: It was nice and quiet, access to plenty of shopping and interstates, but that was about the extent of it. The house values, in our opinion, just weren’t there.
Luke: So, what we decided to do is, we live about 45 minutes north of Baltimore and about two hours away from DC. We just decided that we were going to start marketing in that corridor.
Adam: And so, along with that comes new buyers. We had a 1,500 person buyer list before that, about 15 to 20 reliably, if we put something out at a great price they’d pull it down and it would be 10 days and closed. Well, we started down there and we were able to bring about two or three of them down with us.
Luke: Some of our best buyers will travel with us.
Brent Daniels: Sure.
Luke: Right? I just got a phone call the other day where the one said, “I want to start following you guys down there also,” because they just caught one of our deals up in Pennsylvania, one of our residual ones.
Adam: So, we basically, we’re marketing in a new place with no buyers, and Luke and I are like, “Okay. I mean, now we have a selling problem.” We are getting people to agree to 60%, 50% of the value, 40%. 30%. And it’s like, now we are having trouble selling them. So, what do we do? We got to build up a buyer’s list, and we’ve got to do it quick.
Luke: But, what we focused on, we have three team meetings a week with our people, is we just go over some of our core values, and this is something we learned from Tom, is that basically, there’s a, at the center of any transaction there’s three main values. You can have price, convenience and speed. But, it’s kind of like a Venn Diagram, where in the center of those that’s basically impossible. So, what we provide as wholesalers is speed and convenience, and what that means is that, they sacrifice price.
That doesn’t mean that speed and convenience aren’t as valuable, because in a lot of the transactions they are more valuable than what the price is. But what we focus on is, like what you said, just being kind and caring with everybody, just because sometimes when we are reaching out to these people and calling them, we don’t know what their day has been like. Maybe they’ve had a bad day and they shout at one of our phone prospectors, or they shout at us, or they tell us to get lost or some colorful variation of that, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t return the kindness back to them.
We actually have updated our script that we use with, from one of my prospectors, he’s got the absolute friendliest closing line ever that I have the rest of the team using this now too, where he just says, “You know, I really appreciate your time today, and I hope you have a good rest of your day.” He said that without me ever teaching them that. I just said, “Okay, great. Have a nice day.” And I’ve moved the whole team to that, because it turns even the most unfriendly person to a courteous, kind person on the back side of it, where they’re just like, “You know what, you too.” So, even if the conversation doesn’t go the way we want it, I mean, obviously we want to be able to buy a house at a price where we can make a profit, but we aren’t there to, I don’t know-
Adam: Brow-beat, or like-
Luke: Or have a scorched earth policy with the people that don’t want to talk to us. I mean, that’s their prerogative and we are there to provide value in any way we can.
Brent Daniels: 100%. I love it. I’ve got a few questions that are just rattling around, and I’m sure the listeners will have them as well. One, you said you have phone prospectors. Who is this person, and how did you find them, and what do they do?
Adam: So, our phone prospectors are basically what I guess other people would consider the equivalent of cold callers.
Luke: We just don’t like, I mean, while the term “cold calling” I think is fine, I think it can be daunting, and we didn’t want it to be daunting to our people, because I really think that the system that you teach through the course is fantastic.
Adam: So basically, what we wanted to do was take people that had no desire to be real estate investors or no desire to be a salesperson, they just want… Were just friendly gregarious people that were in the service industry, and be able to repurpose them for being equally service oriented in our industry. So-
Luke: We don’t hire salespeople. We train new ones.
Brent Daniels: I love it.
Adam: So we basically, what we did was, when we had first talked to you, you said referrals are great, and we’re like, “I hate when people say that.”
Luke: How the hell do you get referrals? This is crazy.
Adam: So, Luke and I wracked our brain, and when we were first looking for the acquisition manager that we had gotten, we had put out maybe 25, 30 feelers to friends and acquaintances. So, one of them just came to mind, he was a friendly guy that we knew from back in the day. We actually asked him if he would be interested. We sent him a sales letter we wrote about what the job entailed and how we had learned it from you, and how it was completely different than anyone was doing. It was a great opportunity to work from your house and be able to work as much or as little as you wanted, we’ve since changed that. I mean, as little for us is about 22 hours. But we did that, we posted one of those pull-off flyer things on college, on a few college campuses, and then we also did the same sales letter on Craigslist.
Luke: So, we hired two people initially from, one from Adam’s referral, someone in Adam’s network, one from the college campus, and then one from Craigslist. And the college campus and the Craigslist, the college campus and Adam’s network referral worked really great, but both of them had to go back to school, unfortunately. But the great thing about Adam’s network is that it kind of branched off again, and so when we were looking to hire another person, we asked that person, “Do you know anybody else that’s pretty similar to you, is kind, caring, friendly, a little bit outgoing, and wouldn’t mind doing this, and is looking to make some extra money?” And he said, “Well, so-and-so is in my neighborhood, growing up, and he said he was looking for something. Would you mind if I tell him about it?” We said, “Sure, could you send him the sales letter?” And he said, “Absolutely.”
Adam: So we sent him the sales letter. A couple of days letter we got his application.
Luke: Meanwhile, we hired a wonderful person out in Portland to work on our team. She’s one of the sweetest people that I think I’ve ever met, as a phone prospector. And then, eventually the guy that we got from, I guess a referral of a referral has become the equivalent of our acquisitions manager, but her referred us to his brother, and two of his other best friends. And then his brother referred us to his wife. And then his one best friend referred us to his girlfriend. And that makes up the entire team now.
Brent Daniels: And you guys hated the response I gave you of, “Get referrals” right off the bat, right? Yeah. I hear you, that is incredible.
How do you keep them motivated? How do you keep them engaged? How do you keep the culture of your business alive and thriving if they are all kind of scattered all over the place?
Luke: Oh, I just want to say one thing first.
Brent Daniels: Yeah.
Luke: And, this is just a like a testament to how awesome Brent is as a mentor, and it’s a quote I heard, I don’t know, a year or two ago. “If at first you don’t succeed, listen to your mentor.”
Brent Daniels: Well, thank you guys. I appreciate it.
So, back to the question. How do you keep the culture? How do you keep everybody organized, everybody with enthusiasm and kindness getting on the phones and calling strangers all day? I mean, it sounds so daunting.
Adam: There, so basically what we did is we took your advice. One, we didn’t hire any drivers. So, that was our main disqualifier. I think we have shared with some people, we have 20 criteria that we look for.
Brent Daniels: Explain what a driver is.
Adam: They’re basically like what Luke and I are-
Brent Daniels: Personality type. Right?
Adam: Personality, they want to get things done. It’s like-
Luke: Hard charging, super goal-oriented. Not that there’s a problem with any of these things, but they think… A lot of times, and this isn’t a critique of high drivers because I myself am one, Adam is too, they can be less coachable because they are like a headstrong, they think that their way is the right way. And a lot of times they’re right, they can get things done their way, but it just makes it sometimes hard to create a team vision around. [crosstalk 00:16:32]
Adam: They’re also a little more independent, which is like, it’s great if you’re the business owner or whatever, doing that, but for people that you are trying to have a cohesive vision, it’s a, it makes chaos.
Brent Daniels: Expressive amiables, right guys? I mean, that’s what you’re looking for.
Adam: That’s what everyone on our team is.
Brent Daniels: Yep, yep.
Adam: So, there’s a few… The one thing Luke and I have found too is that analyticals are okay. One of our really good ones, she’s super analytical, but she takes excellent notes and whenever she passes off a lead to-
Luke: The leads are fantastic, that she puts through.
Brent Daniels: Yep, yep.
Adam: The other things that we looked for in people, so I guess that’s how you get your culture right first, is to put the right people into the whole thing, was good attitude. Our main one is that money’s not their main goal, because we had a ton of people that applied that said, “Oh, I want to make money.”
Luke: Another key thing is that when we are hiring them, we ask them for three references, and we don’t ever actually, well, I don’t want to give this away, but, I mean-
Adam: Usually we don’t-
Luke: Usually we don’t check their references, just because asking someone if they can provide them is enough.
Brent Daniels: Sure, sure.
Luke: There was one person that we didn’t hire because he said that he wouldn’t be able to provide references, and it’s like, what kind of person can’t at least get three friends to say, “This guy is a decent person.”
Adam: So, yeah, so we basically, if they don’t have that, we don’t hire them. We like to find people who think the idea is novel. The whole idea, the whole thing is intriguing, it’s not like something they’ve always wanted to do, or something they’d want to do themselves. It kind of fits a need. A lot of the people have kids. They want to be with their kids more. So we basically, that’s how we can provide value to our people.
Luke: We like seeing also that when we hire them for being a phone prospector, that we feel that they could eventually become a lead manager for us, or an acquisition manager, whatever you want to call it, so that we feel that they are promotable. And then the last thing that we look for, I mean, this is just obviously us glossing over the twenty-some characteristics we look for, but just as a last resort, it’s just if you’ve got a bad feeling, a bad gut feeling, even if you’ve got partners also, and one of them has a bad gut feeling about the person, just don’t hire them. It’s going to create problems later on.
Brent Daniels: Yeah, that’s huge. Just don’t even start the problem, just cut it off right there. I love it, perfect. And you have four that are making outbound calls for how many hours a day?
Luke: It’s probably easier if we say it per week.
Adam: Yeah, it’s like, 90 hours a week right now. [crosstalk 00:18:57]
Luke: We wanted to hop back in because we didn’t get to finish answering part of your question, if that’s okay.
Brent Daniels: Yep, yep.
Adam: How do we keep everyone on the same vision?
Luke: So, the one thing that we do every day, it’s like, there’s two things. And we got this from Verne Harnish’s book the “Rockefeller Habits”.
Adam: She’s the one who wrote “Scaling Up” too.
Luke: Um, is that we have a daily team meeting, or, I have a daily meeting with the six prospectors. Adam has a daily meeting with our lead manager-
Adam: And our executive assistant.
Luke: And our executive assistant. And then, that’s just to go over any problems and troubleshoot those. And then what we do on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays is we get the entire group together on an app called Band. We learned that from someone in the tribe,
Adam: Yeah, I think it was Christian Richardson. But we basically just do a call, we try to keep it, I mean, we almost always keep it under 15, unless it’s something super important, which we tell them ahead of time. But usually they’re 11 minute meetings. We start with everyone going around the room, telling good news, then-
Luke: That can be anything business related, personal related, we just want everyone to have some comradery and share what’s going on that’s good in their life.
Adam: Then we ask for hang-ups, anything that everyone is experiencing repeatedly. It’s better to get them out there than have them basically waste time on it, on their own, and if one person having the problem, there’s probably multiple people. So we can really cut down the amount of time on problem solving by presenting the problems there.
Luke: And we like to go over core values, like a core value of Adam’s and mine in the business.
Adam: So we have about 7 values that are really important to us, and we just cycle through them, and then we ask people to share stories, if it’s appropriate, like a 30 second story or example. Not everyone always does, and for that we also have an anonymous suggestion box so that they can, without feeling dumb, or judged, they can submit suggestions and then we can just read them to the group and it’s anonymous. And then, finally, we end it with a one word or one sentence close about how they felt about the meeting.
Luke: And about the direction that we are all headed in as a team. And we find that it just really creates a lot of team cohesion that everybody feels that they’re on the same page, we’re all friends here. If someone’s telling me about how they’re excited that they get, they’re good news is that they get to spend more time with their child, that’s exciting to me because I want them to be happy, relaxed, and me to be able to provide a lot of value to them outside of the fact that I pay them for working. Because one of the things that we put in our sales letter for the hiring of people is that you can work on your couch, and we believed in that mission so strongly that we are actually sitting here in my office on my couch.
Brent Daniels: Yep, yep.
Adam: At the end of the day then, well not at the end of the day I guess, 30 minutes after that Tracy, Luke, and I record them all, for them. We post them in our Band, that way they can listen to them if they wanted to refer back, and Tracy takes minutes for us, our executive assistant. So, that’s how we keep the vision moving forward. Everyone kind of has the same goal, let’s try to get, try to deliver as much value as possible, get as many houses as possible, sell them for the buyer’s possible, deliver a vision to the buyer as to what they could do. So, we just try to do as much of that with as many people, and do it all with a friendly attitude.
Brent Daniels: Yeah, no, absolutely. I, what I took away from that, and I’m just writing down some things here, being able to communicate that quickly and that effectively with your whole team, I think is just, so important, because here’s what’s happens. If people feel like they’re out there by themselves, if they’re out there standing alone, or they’re on their own island, and they’re making calls, and they’re getting beat up on the phones here-there, they’re having great conversations but they can’t share it with anybody, it just, they won’t stick around, at least in my experience, they won’t stick around because they’ll just get to discouraged or they’ll just feel like there’s no support there, and they’ll keep their eyes open for other opportunities. And what you guys are doing is you guys are creating this business where, you’ve got this family environment where they can come to you with their problems, with their issues, or with their successes, more importantly, and share all those things, and they have a voice, and they are important, and they understand that they’re important. And because of that, you get to retain these people. The longer that someone is doing, is on the phones and talking to people, the absolute better they get. They just get better and better and better, and keeping those people around is the key to really, really expanding your business. So, guys, just, really incredible. Love it.
Adam: Kind of along the same lines is what Luke was saying about, listen to your mentor.
I remember we had asked you this early on, are you afraid of people that you have that have a relationship, either friendship or are married, or are siblings, and you said [inaudible 00:23:55] 101. And that could happen, I don’t look for it to happen and it doesn’t. That’s actually the strength of our team right now, is that everyone is good friends with each other, or dating, or plays online video games with each other outside of work. So it’s actually made a really strong ecosystem.
Luke: And the cool thing is, is that what we’ve found is that outside of us training or coaching them, and working with them individually and working with them as a team, they spend their own time asking each other questions and trying to get better. It’s like, that blew me away when they told me that. Like, different prospectors saying, “Oh, we practiced this.” Or like, my one seller and buyer prospector that are dating, they’re both fantastic people, I got on the phone with Brooke, and Brooke was like, “Yeah, Josh and I were practicing the script last night that we had to be ready to go for today.” And it’s like, “Hell yeah, how am I going to reward these people?”
Brent Daniels: Yes, I love it, I love it. So, let’s get back to your new market. You guys are in bigger markets now. You said what, it was Baltimore and DC?
Brent Daniels: Okay, so, how do you find buyers for that area? What are you guys doing proactively to build your buyer database, because you had 1500 in your, in the market that you were in? How do you go about, in those bigger markets, making a name for yourself, or at least, being on a, when I send you a deal you’ll look at it basis? You know what I mean?
Luke: We want to give a huge shout out to another tribe member here, Tim Siegel, taught us the first method we are going to talk about, and we’ll tell you about a very similar side method then too.
Brent Daniels: Okay, perfect. Go for it.
Luke: So, what Tim taught us was that you can just go on the M-L-S, type in the remarks or whatever, the comments section, and basically look for houses in the areas that you have, are marketing for properties that have recently been rehabbed. So, Adam and I had always done it from the opposite side, we had looked at cash sales and basically just reached out and called those agents, and we said, “Hey, I’m Luke Swomley, I saw your info on the M-L-S, that you represented a cash transaction.”
Adam: But Tim gave us the whole idea, look at it from the other side. People that are listing renovated houses [crosstalk 00:26:14]. We use a matrix system, which is I think the same as in California and Atlanta and-
Luke: Probably other places around.
Adam: Yeah, other big places. It’s like a big M-L-S. In the agent remarks we just type any, we have, I don’t know, it’s probably 50 words, because every additional word you add, it doesn’t, it searches in addition. So, we search for like, throughout, would be one word that we search for, recently renovated.
Luke: New kitchen. Things of that nature or like, brand new. So, basically, you search those things and look up a house that’s been rehabbed on the M-L-S, or a couple of them, and basically just see the words that are repeatedly used. Then you basically just go back and you search for those things. And basically when you call and you reach out to the agents, I think the tribe has a script for doing it, ours is like a hair different, that we just found works differently for us that we like just as well. I mean, ours is modeled based off of the tribe script. And basically you just reach out and say that, we find discounted properties, would you be interested in knowing about them?
Adam: So, immediately then, so Luke and I can do almost everything through Mojo. Mojo is like our C-R-M, it’s how we get ahold of people, we don’t actually use ring central or call fire or call rail really for any of that stuff. We basically almost exclusively do outbound calls at this point. We also use MailChimp, so we send a blast out to those people. But when the phone prospector after they add them to our list, they send an intro email basically, we have a template, that says what they discussed with them, what areas they are looking for, all that kind of stuff. And then, when we get a property, we call the list and we let them know about the property, we let them know about what price we think it’s going to be, what area it is, kind of what we think it’s going to need in repairs-
Brent Daniels: You call your buyer list? Is that who you’re calling?
Adam: Yep! We call them all, and we try to get them to come out. So we basically, well what we have found as a rule of thumb, originally when we were doing this, was if Luke and I personally called 10 people we’d get one person out. So if we called 100 people, we would be able to get 10 people out to the house. That was from our personal connections, and living in the area, and people knowing us and everything. What we found through the agent, this whole approach, is if you call 30, you can get one out. You don’t have to get ahold of 30 of them, you’ll probably only get ahold of like, seven and a half or eight.
Brent Daniels: Are you leaving voicemails?
Brent Daniels: No.
Adam: Nope, so we basically send out an email to all of them, that says all the details. If we get ahold of them we also send out and email just summarizing what the property is about, and then, on the morning of the inspection, we also send out a reminder.
Luke: That’s something we just started doing, but I think that that’s going to be a staple for us.
Adam: We got about 40% of our people out to the last one.
Luke: Because they’re like, “Oh! Crap, I almost forgot! I got to get out to that property today.”
Adam: So we send it out a little bit after they would already be in to work, that way they can see it. And then we try to do our inspections in the afternoon. But the other way, is the other way that you were thinking about the, so that’s the list agents of rehabbed houses.
On the other side is what we had originally done, these people are a little bit more aggressive, they usually represent, like they go out and find stuff for their buyers. It’s called the selling agent, the buyer’s agent?
Brent Daniels: Yeah.
Adam: It’s not the [inaudible 00:29:49] agent, it’s the other side of the transaction. So you search in the agent remarks instead of for the rehabbed properties, you’re looking for the as-is properties.
Brent Daniels: Oh, I love it. So you’re going after the buyers agents that went and represented buyers on as-is deals on the M-L-S.
Luke: And the wonderful thing about Mojo is that Mojo scrubs the two lists against each other, so you’re making sure you’re not calling any of the same people twice.
Brent Daniels: Right.
Luke: So, [inaudible 00:30:16] the selling agents list is definitely much smaller.
Adam: People show up to more things but they are also a little bit more aggressive on pricing. Not like going up, they go down on price with them.
Luke: [crosstalk 00:30:27] There’s not a ton of overlap actually, like you might expect on the list agent versus the selling agent.
Brent Daniels: I love it, guys that is huge. I have always done the listing side, but going on the selling side seems so, oh man, that is so smart, and I feel so dumb right now. For not doing that, but I am definitely going to, that is incredible for building your buyer database.
So, what would, basically you have access to the M-L-S, for people that don’t have access to the M-L-S, what you need to do, is you need to find somebody that does have access to the M-L-S, and work with that person to get these lists of agents that are out there actively working with cash buyers and add them to your database, and then you need to talk to them, you need to call them up, just like Luke and Adam are doing, they’re calling them up and they are literally trying to have a conversation about a deal that they are going to send out to everybody. That is so, so key. I mean, guys, how is your response when you call people up with the deal? Do people generally look at the deal when you send it over, and don’t just ignore it?
Luke: [crosstalk 00:31:39] We’re pretty close to a 50% open rate on our mass email, but we also, what I think is the more interesting stat, and we use to feel… When we found out the other method, the method that you and Tim use, for agents, we felt stupid, because we were like, “How did we not think [crosstalk 00:31:56] rehabbed ones?” But what we found is that of the people we call, of these agents, about 80% of them say yes right off the bat, [crosstalk 00:32:06] “Sure, put me on your list.” It can be as high as 90%. When I was beta testing our system, I went on a crazy streak of 20 out of 20 in a row. But, basically about 80% is a good metric to shoot for. Then about 50% of the people open your email and I think Adam and I, we are trying to hammer down what it actually comes out to, but we are thinking that it’s about, out of, for your buyer’s list, 1 out of every 20 emails you send gets about one person out to the house.
Adam: Obviously you want there to be 10, 20, 30 people out there, but-
Luke: So you just have to build your list accordingly.
Brent Daniels: Sure. How do you guys have the conversation with the buyers that say, “Hey, listen, guys, you bring this to me before you bring it to anybody else, and I will make sure that, one, we won’t even have to walk the house, we’ll just buy it, and two, it’s going to be cash, and it’s going to be smooth” and everything like that. Do you guys sell to those guys? Do you guys always blast them out and put it out there? Tell, I mean, be honest.
Adam: This is probably complete hearsay-
Luke: Heresy [crosstalk 00:33:10]-
Adam: Whatever, but, and it’s probably a complete no-no, in some areas Luke and I just don’t like to divert our team from continuing to build the buyer’s list, so we don’t, if we get something in an area that is going to be, they’re going to spend three days calling the people, between adding people to the list, then getting them out there, then reminding them, and then following up on offers. So, sometimes, if Luke and I know a person in that area, where we know we can one off it at a price that’s satisfactory, we’ll do that just to keep our resources on the-
Luke: On the growing. We’ve got a keep your fingers crossed for us, we’re trying to get one in Pennsylvania here that was an old lead that we’d been following up with since May. The property is in good condition, I’ve got two or three buyers that I know want it, probably at a price right now where I can make about $10,000. And there’s no sense in having my entire buyers list, my entire team divert from where we are doing most of our business, down in Maryland, to Pennsylvania and get them all worked up to do that, for stuff that we’re not going to have a whole lot of anymore.
Brent Daniels: Got it.
Luke: I already have connections and relationships up here that we can sell that property.
Adam: And we can usually one off it at a price where we feel we-
Luke: And by the property we the mean the assignment, I mean we can sell the purchase agreement.
Brent Daniels: Right. Right.
Adam: We usually have the purchase price at a price where any one of five to ten of our buyers, if we said, “Hey, look, I didn’t want to have to do an inspection, but I will, if I don’t get this price.” That’s what Luke actually told on the last one we got up in Pennsylvania. We ended up, we told them, “We’re probably at 115 to 120.” They said, “Okay, 115.” We’re like, “No, we’re probably closer to 120.” And they went out and they were like, “Okay, could we split it?” And Luke’s like, “I don’t think Adam’s going to let me do that.” Then he said, “Well, could you do 118?” And Luke’s like-
Luke: I called Adam on the phone and while Adam was still on the phone I just said, “Hold on a second.” And I said, “Adam’s telling me 119.” And he was like, “Okay.”
Adam: They’re like, “Okay, fine, done, send it over.” So, when you get-
Luke: Those are some of our favorite people to work with, that individual buyer, those two buyers.
Adam: I’m sure could have gotten two, I mean, there wasn’t a ton of room in that deal, it was just a relist. I’m sure we could have gotten maybe 2,000 or 3,000 or 5,000 more, but the amount of extra work-
Luke: It would have cost us more money to divert our team.
Adam: Because, they’re working on basically selling one right now that’s a 30, 40, or 50 thousand dollar deal.
Brent Daniels: I love it. Love it, love it, love it. So guys, newbie, anybody that’s new, that’s excited to get into this industry, to get into, whether it be wholesaling, or real estate investing, or just kind of learning what it is to be in this business, what advice would you guys give them? Just coming out of the gate, what either books would you have them read, what advice would you give them, give them something to shoot for, some action item to take, so that they can start on their path to where you guys are at?
Adam: I think this might be an unconventional book to recommend, aside from “The Go-Giver”, I would have them read “The Go-Giver” for starters-
Luke: Obviously read “The Go-Giver”.
Adam: We’ve actually, Luke and I listen to it on Audible a few times a month. But aside from that, which is basically the foundations, if they don’t have that, I wouldn’t start doing anything, the other book, this one has been really foundational for Luke and I, I’d say if you don’t, if you’ve never read it you should read it, especially before you spend another marketing dollar, is Claude Hopkin’s, “Scientific Advertising.”
Brent Daniels: Okay.
Adam: Luke and I read that about, it’s a short book, it’s a short book, you can read it in about an hour and a half, we read it about ten times a year. It just, he’s-
Luke: It’s probably the greatest copywriter that ever lived, and the recent greats like David Ogleby, Gary Halbert, have all said that this is, if you need to learn how to be a salesman and how to learn how to advertise, this is the guy to go to.
Adam: And basically the whole premise of it is all for service, and he tells you about, his other book is, “My Life in Advertising”, where he says-
Luke: It’s kind of like an autobiography where he explains how he was able to do the things he explains in “Scientific Advertising.”
Adam: So between those two he basically explains about being the friend showing up offering service, looking out for their interests first, and basically people aren’t looking for when you’re narrow minded and think, “Oh, this is what they’re looking for” they’re looking for an attractive offer. And someone that can provide that.
Luke: So we would say those for the books, and the other thing that I would say is that, nothing in real estate is easy, so if you’re looking for a get rich quick scheme, this isn’t it, because there is no such thing. It takes a lot of hard consistent work, but the thing is that if you strap in for it and just know that there are going to be some ups and downs, and just know that everybody has failed, we also have come completely off the bus. Adam and I, after having done this for basically three years, had to restart, four or five months ago. And you can build it pretty quickly if you have an intense, crazy focus.
Adam: And I guess the last thing, Luke and I just realized this, looking at our database on Friday, right before we gave you a call, is the pipeline is real. You just have to build the pipeline, and it’ll take care of you.
Luke: And it might take a couple months to get up to that, but don’t be discouraged, and as long as you’re putting in consistent effort, it’ll happen. I mean, as long as you’re doing the right consistent effort, which you can get the right consistent effort from the tribe, from Brent, Tom, Cody, etcetera.
Adam: So, I mean, I know Brent, Tom, Cody, Todd, they all say it, basically, the money’s in the database, you just build the database the right way, it’s annoying to hear the first month, second month, the third month, once you get to the sixth month, where you had told us six months of building your pipeline and it’ll start to feed you. It’s night and day, from when we started to now. Where it’s like, okay there’s, any one of these people and we get ahold of them, it’s a deal. You know?
Brent Daniels: Yep, yep. And that’s the biggest and toughest challenge, is getting through and staying consistent for that 180 days, right? That six months of feeling that nothing’s going to happen right, or it’s going to, the market’s shifting on me, or, whatever else you create in your mind to make you, make it feel a little bit better for what you’re doing. A lot of people just stop. And what you guys have done is you’ve kept consistent and now it is paying off, now your pipeline’s full, now you’re getting more and more and more deals popping. I’m telling you, we have a pipeline here in Phoenix that’s been built up over two and a half, three years, and we are doing deals that we got from a conversation that we had three years ago. So, I mean, it’s all about filling up the pipeline, staying consistent, bringing kindness to the marketplace, to everybody that you’re interacting with, talking to, and your business will explode.
Luke: Is there anything else that we can answer for you?
Brent Daniels: I think that’s it. What’s your goal, real quick, what’s your goal? How many buyers do you want in your new markets, and how soon are you going to get there?
Adam: 2,000 in four weeks I think.
Luke: Because what we found is that if we are doing 25 hours a week, per person, we’ve got two buyer prospectors, that’s 50, we’ve found 50 hours per week, and we can add about 10 per hour, it’s about 500 per week.
Brent Daniels: That’s, [crosstalk 00:40:46] you can have ten cash buyers an hour?
Luke: Agents of cash buyers or agents of rehabbers per hour.
Brent Daniels: Wow. [crosstalk 00:40:54]
Luke: It’s a good number to shoot for, ten. Eight’s not bad. When they’re training, eight’s a good, seven or eight’s a good starting metric. Six is usually their first day, seven is the day after that, and it just climbs up to ten, and then it hovers between ten and twelve.
Adam: It can’t get higher than that, because you can’t get ahold of to many more people than that per hour.
Luke: Because the agents, you’ve got a 40% contact rate.
Adam: Agents answer their phone more than anyone.
Brent Daniels: No, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Adam: One more quick tip, if you ever need someone to bail you out of jail or [crosstalk 00:41:27] call an agent, they’ll always pick up their phone.
Brent Daniels: That’s awesome. That is really great. Well thank you guys so much, I think we’ve put in some good, just incredible content for everybody that’s listening. Way different than what we usually do, by putting somebody in the hot seat and breaking down a deal. I’ve got a whole page of notes that I’ve written here on things that I need to take action on right now, and I really just, I like you guys, you guys are the best. It’s really awesome. [crosstalk 00:41:58]
Luke: We wouldn’t be here without you, so thank you.
Brent Daniels: Well, you guys have all the tough work, so, if you guys are listening out there and you want to get more one on one, if you want to speak with me directly, go to W-W-W dot Wholesaling Inc dot com, forward slash T-T-P, and we can schedule a time to chat, if you want to learn more about the tribe, we can certainly do it at that time as well.
Until the next time guys, go out there, take action, write your goals, every single day, talk to people. Until next time. Thanks for listening.